Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

donalg1

Izzy Skint wrote: »

And money is also being taken from private sector workers pockets, and the gubberment want to take even more with the introduction of property / water charges. People who work in the ps should be just as opposed to these charges as private sector workers are.
Yes, you are correct, we do pay too much in social welfare, rent allowance etc. the cost of living here is high....who's fault is that ?

What is wrong with ps bashing? as far as I am concerned it is here where the gubberment can make billions in savings, it is where my hard earned tax is going to support a huge number of lazy, self indulgent, over paid, under performing, pampered employees with guaranteed jobs.
I have the right to criticise them, I PAY THEIR WAGES.
14% pay cut, yeah, it was 14% of an excessive salary.

We have the third highest paid teachers in Europe, behind Luxembourg and Switzerland, and we have the 4'th highest paid teachers in the developed world behind Lux. Switz and South Korea....yet on a league table of student grades and performance we are way down...sometimes as low as 30'th or 40'th on these tables....good value for money there eh ?....
Teachers received over €500m in extra allowances last year alone !...and that is on top of their wages, and yet Ruairi Quinn is afraid to even mention any possible cuts to these allowances, teaching unions have warned him early...stay away from these or else...

I will say it again, it is far more beneficial for the gubberment to cut its spending rather than maintain its current spending and raising additional taxes...they are not addressing the root cause of the deficit which is overspending brought about by excessive wage increases and staff numbers during the 'boom'....the 'boom' is over so we must reverse the increases....it is simple logic really.

Of course they will be taking money out of the economy but the benefits of reducing spending will, in the long run far outweigh this.

Good lad yourself, and the private sector is full of wonderful hard working people. Love the sweeping generalisations. Oh and its Government.

I do agree though that there needs to be a massive cut in Government Spending, suspend all Capital projects scheduled for the next few years, forget all the projects that we can live without, then cut the salaries of the top earners, including themselves, raise income tax, cut social welfare, introduce a fair and equitable property tax, along with water charges, slash Rent Allowance immediately. All the above needs to be done but only one or two parts will actually be done.

Its very easy to bash the PS but likewise they could just as easily bash the Private Sector or those on Social Welfare. Like one other poster alluded to the best way to conquer is to divide first, some people continuously fall into this trap. But sure hey who am I to try show them the error of their ways.

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

My immediate neighbour lives in a 7000 sq ft house with a summer house on site too.
My house is about 2000 sq ft.
They are multi-millionaire's who happened to make a lot of their money as developers.
I work for myself and pay my dues (except this one) and just about get by.

Is it right that we should pay the same amount because we live in the same location?

Well as the post said it will be based on the site valuation so is your site the same size?

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

I'm not saying cut the wages of the average PS/CS worker, I'm saying that the ones towards the higher end of the scale should be cut and cut severely.

There's too many chief's and not enough indians if you know what i mean.

Social welfare should be cut in line with the cost of living but not slashed as some on here seem to suggest.

Also, I know a lot os PS workers (local county council) who live in rented council houses, do you think they should pay for their services?

I will pay more income tax if I have to, but I will not pay a tax on the roof over my head.
I paid enough tax on that in stamp duty, VAT and council levies when I extended it a number of years ago.
Now I'm to be taxed again because my home is bigger than someone elses??

There you go again, do you think that only those employed in the PS and living in Council Houses should pay for their services or do you think that everyone in Council Houses, PS, Private Sector or Social Welfare should pay for their services.

I for one think all Council Tenants should pay for the services.

kr7

Here's another way the powers that be could raise and save a serious amount of money.

Ban all overtime in the PS/CS and then employ more people to do the required work but at normal time rates.

1. We reduce the amount of people signing on the dole
2. We collect more taxes from these people as they're now working.
3. These people now have money to spend in local businesses etc, thus possibly creating more jobs in the process.
4. The downward spiral we are on can start to be halted and reversed.

Does this not make sense?

Bet the unions would throw their toys out of the pram though.

kr7

donalg1 wrote: »

There you go again, do you think that only those employed in the PS and living in Council Houses should pay for their services or do you think that everyone in Council Houses, PS, Private Sector or Social Welfare should pay for their services.

I for one think all Council Tenants should pay for the services.

I agree with you, everyone should pay equally.
Until this issue is addressed, I will not pay up.

kr7

donalg1 wrote: »

Well as the post said it will be based on the site valuation so is your site the same size?

That poster said location, more than value of house or site size.

Potential-Monke

kr7 wrote: »

Ireland's public sector pay structure is substantially higher than most other European countries and, on average, one-third higher than public sector workers in Britain. Latest comparable figures show that average British public service weekly earnings were €634 compared with the €913 paid to state employees here.

I'm in the PS since 07, and yes i have received a pay increment every year in line with the contract i signed in Feb 07. However, every year that i have gotten an increase, it was effectively taken back in taxes. And i'm nowhere near €913 a week wages. I wish. But, thanks to all taxes, USC, etc, etc, i'm effectively on €500 a week of which €400 is mortgage/loans and the rest is used to pay bills. I have about €40 disposable income a week to feed and fuel myself. I basically pay my own wages every week.

kr7

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I'm in the PS since 07, and yes i have received a pay increment every year in line with the contract i signed in Feb 07. However, every year that i have gotten an increase, it was effectively taken back in taxes. And i'm nowhere near €913 a week wages. I wish. But, thanks to all taxes, USC, etc, etc, i'm effectively on €500 a week of which €400 is mortgage/loans and the rest is used to pay bills. I have about €40 disposable income a week to feed and fuel myself. I basically pay my own wages every week.

My other post suggests that people in your position should not be touched.
It's the middle to higher earners there that should be hit.

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

Here's another way the powers that be could raise and save a serious amount of money.

Ban all overtime in the PS/CS and then employ more people to do the required work but at normal time rates.

1. We reduce the amount of people signing on the dole
2. We collect more taxes from these people as they're now working.
3. These people now have money to spend in local businesses etc, thus possibly creating more jobs in the process.
4. The downward spiral we are on can start to be halted and reversed.

Does this not make sense?

Bet the unions would throw their toys out of the pram though.

What they should do is ban overtime and redeploy staff where possible from one section of the ps to another, there are some that are overly busy im sure and others twiddling their thumbs so just move them around and make the savings that way.

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

That poster said location, more than value of house or site size.

Oh right I read it as two houses on the same size site would pay the same property tax regardless of the condition of the house, so I assumed that two houses side by side and on different size sites would pay different amounts.

Izzy Skint

donalg1, I make generalisations due to time constraints, I can't go into all aspects of the ps. One sector of the ps I would praise are the nursing staff and doctors, YET, there is massive wastage in the HSE. It is this hidden wastage that must be cut, not the frontline staff from these essential services.
you said the ps could just as easily bash the private sector or those on social welfare, are you saying that welfare recipients are classed as private sector ?...you are probably correct, there are very few ex ps workers on welfare.
I do agree with a lot of what you say, definitely big cuts needed in ps pay and pensions and perks, leave the lower paid ps alone I agree.
Welfare needs to be cut, rent allowance etc. we need a whole new welfare system , perhaps a sliding scale system ?

My problem with all this property tax fiasco is this: I am working for an average wage, I am married, 2 kids, mortgage, 2 cars (which we need !)....and I am barely able to get by as things stand, I am getting screwed every way possible, from my variable rate mortgage to domestic bills, petrol in my car, gp visits and everything else in between I am being hammered. I built my own house at no cost to the govt..... Now the govt. want to introduce a property tax, water charges and further tax increases, prsi, usc etc. on me.... they expect me to cut back on my spending to pay all these extra taxes while at the same time they are only making token savings in their spending and are wasting billions overpaying politicians, ps workers, welfare recipients plus all the waste in the education and hse ?
We are overspending by €400m a week ffs !!!!, I have cut my spending to the bone, it's time the govt. did the same.

Izzy Skint

kr7 wrote: »

My immediate neighbour lives in a 7000 sq ft house with a summer house on site too.
My house is about 2000 sq ft.
They are multi-millionaire's who happened to make a lot of their money as developers.
I work for myself and pay my dues (except this one) and just about get by.

Is it right that we should pay the same amount because we live in the same location?

NO, neither of you should pay.:)

dvpower

Izzy Skint wrote: »

NO, neither of you should pay.:)

Is this the place to sign up for the campaign to save multi millionaire developers living in 7000 sq ft houses from having to pay property tax?

donalg1

Izzy Skint wrote: »

donalg1, I make generalisations due to time constraints, I can't go into all aspects of the ps. One sector of the ps I would praise are the nursing staff and doctors, YET, there is massive wastage in the HSE. It is this hidden wastage that must be cut, not the frontline staff from these essential services.
you said the ps could just as easily bash the private sector or those on social welfare, are you saying that welfare recipients are classed as private sector ?...you are probably correct, there are very few ex ps workers on welfare.
I do agree with a lot of what you say, definitely big cuts needed in ps pay and pensions and perks, leave the lower paid ps alone I agree.
Welfare needs to be cut, rent allowance etc. we need a whole new welfare system , perhaps a sliding scale system ?

My problem with all this property tax fiasco is this: I am working for an average wage, I am married, 2 kids, mortgage, 2 cars (which we need !)....and I am barely able to get by as things stand, I am getting screwed every way possible, from my variable rate mortgage to domestic bills, petrol in my car, gp visits and everything else in between I am being hammered. I built my own house at no cost to the govt..... Now the govt. want to introduce a property tax, water charges and further tax increases, prsi, usc etc. on me.... they expect me to cut back on my spending to pay all these extra taxes while at the same time they are only making token savings in their spending and are wasting billions overpaying politicians, ps workers, welfare recipients plus all the waste in the education and hse ?
We are overspending by €400m a week ffs !!!!, I have cut my spending to the bone, it's time the govt. did the same.

I completely agree with you on all of the above, there needs to be massive cuts to government spending, and I get seriously annoyed when asked to fork out more money from my pay packet for services that everyone avails of, while those on Social Welfare get away scot free. I have never said otherwise I have only said I paid the HHC through gritted teeth because its the law and I felt I had no choice.

I see people who have been on the dole all their lives on facebook all day talking about how they have been here there and everywhere and how we should all get out and make the most of the good weather (when ever we have some), then the same people are moaning that their back to school clothing and footwear allowance hasnt come through and the useless PS should get thier finger out because they need it. Then the same people head off to spain for two weeks every year for a p1ss up. That bugs the hell out of me and would love to see this being tackled at the same time as the wastage in the HSE and the top salaries being cut to a normal level.

The most annoying thing about this country today isnt the wastage of the government as this is just the norm here, its the fact that there are some people working 5 or 6 days a week full time who realistically would be better off on the dole. The whole system needs to be changed, it should have been changed during the boom when there was no excuse not to be employed, instead though FF in all their wisdom were increasing the basic SW rates during the boom years and introducing god knows how many different types of benefits for people to abuse.

All this just grates on people when they are asked to fork out more money from their pay packet while those better off on the dole are told they are exempt from forking out any money. The sooner some Govt grows a pair and says screw getting re elected we were elected to fix things and thats what we are going to do over the next few years, even if it means p1ssing off a few people.

Rant Over

Izzy Skint

donalg1 wrote: »

I completely agree with you on all of the above, there needs to be massive cuts to government spending, and I get seriously annoyed when asked to fork out more money from my pay packet for services that everyone avails of, while those on Social Welfare get away scot free. I have never said otherwise I have only said I paid the HHC through gritted teeth because its the law and I felt I had no choice.

I see people who have been on the dole all their lives on facebook all day talking about how they have been here there and everywhere and how we should all get out and make the most of the good weather (when ever we have some), then the same people are moaning that their back to school clothing and footwear allowance hasnt come through and the useless PS should get thier finger out because they need it. Then the same people head off to spain for two weeks every year for a p1ss up. That bugs the hell out of me and would love to see this being tackled at the same time as the wastage in the HSE and the top salaries being cut to a normal level.

The most annoying thing about this country today isnt the wastage of the government as this is just the norm here, its the fact that there are some people working 5 or 6 days a week full time who realistically would be better off on the dole. The whole system needs to be changed, it should have been changed during the boom when there was no excuse not to be employed, instead though FF in all their wisdom were increasing the basic SW rates during the boom years and introducing god knows how many different types of benefits for people to abuse.

All this just grates on people when they are asked to fork out more money from their pay packet while those better off on the dole are told they are exempt from forking out any money. The sooner some Govt grows a pair and says screw getting re elected we were elected to fix things and thats what we are going to do over the next few years, even if it means p1ssing off a few people.

Rant Over

Good post Donalg1....I agree with all of your post...sometimes it is good to rant, it relieves the stress inside me
If the cost of living came down in this country then we would all have more to spend, we could even pay a little more tax as long as we got value for money!....the govt. would revenue that way...but as things stand there are hundreds of thousands of middle income workers who are teetering on the brink. We seem to have it bad in every way possible in this country, we are taxed heavily, directly and in-directly, high cost of living and very poor services...the ordinary man / woman in the street can not take much more.
If I was unemployed tomorrow, I could guarantee you I would have more free cash at the end of the week on welfare than I do now, I could get rid of 1 car and save on motor tax, insurance, servicing, nct and petrol, that would be thousands per year saved by this alone....plus all the allowances I would get, no work expenses, I could spend more time with the kids, bring them to / from school, go to School events / concerts etc.....I am missing all those things now. Plus I would not even have to do 1 hours work all week to get all this !!!....who are the fools in this country?

Izzy Skint

dvpower wrote: »

Is this the place to sign up for the campaign to save multi millionaire developers living in 7000 sq ft houses from having to pay property tax?

DV, affordability should not enter the equation, it is not workable going down that road, besides it looks as if the govt. have decided on going a different route with this, fairness will not play any part in any system they decide to use because there is simply no fair system.

kr7

Izzy Skint wrote: »

DV, affordability should not enter the equation, it is not workable going down that road, besides it looks as if the govt. have decided on going a different route with this, fairness will not play any part in any system they decide to use because there is simply no fair system.

This tax will never be fair.

Scrap it and increase income tax if revenue is needed.

Reduce welfare by the same percentage.

murphyebass

I agree with you, everyone should pay equally.
Until this issue is addressed, I will not pay up.[/Quote]

Bring on the fines then imo and make them hefty so people learn to pay their way.

Bottom line is the law is the law. You pay when your told to pay or face the consequences.

oh hang on you would face the consequences in any other country but Ireland being Ireland you'll probably get away with it and because you and half the country didn't pay the rest of us who did will end up having more taxes because despite what people think the money has to come from somewhere!!

The problem will not disapear because you refuse to pay your way.
You may as well start robbing from shops etc too as you don't think you should have to pay for that either.

This isn't aimed at you moreso half the country unfortunately. :-(

alastair

Izzy Skint wrote: »

If I was unemployed tomorrow, I could guarantee you I would have more free cash at the end of the week on welfare than I do now, I could get rid of 1 car and save on motor tax, insurance, servicing, nct and petrol, that would be thousands per year saved by this alone....plus all the allowances I would get, no work expenses, I could spend more time with the kids, bring them to / from school, go to School events / concerts etc.....I am missing all those things now. Plus I would not even have to do 1 hours work all week to get all this !!!....who are the fools in this country?

Clearly those who've missed that signing on is such a boon to quality of life and family time. Strangely my experience with unemployment wasn't quite so rosy, but I guess I was the exception to the rule.

The country is in hock (even if you discount the bank guarantee drain - which our democratically elected representatives brought upon us), it'll be taxes of one sort or another that pay off that overhead - and property taxes are a no-brainer component of an equitable taxation system.

kr7

[QUOTE
The problems in this country won't disappear if everyone pays €100 or even €1000 either.

Sort out the waste and the massive pay, pensions & perks that those driving the gravy train receive.

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

[QUOTE
The problems in this country won't disappear if everyone pays €100 or even €1000 either.

Sort out the waste and the massive pay, pensions & perks that those driving the gravy train receive.

That'll cause the problems in this country to disappear? It must be a mighty fine gravy train. Care to break down the cost savings you would garner?

christmas2012

we didnt pay and were not going to either

murphyebass

christmas2012 wrote: »

we didnt pay and were not going to either

Again bring on the hefty fines please.

kr7

alastair wrote: »

That'll cause the problems in this country to disappear? It must be a mighty fine gravy train. Care to break down the cost savings you would garner?

Where did I say that'll make the problems disappear?

It would be a start.

I also said we should increase income tax and reduce welfare by the same percentage.

I also said we should ban all overtime in the PS/CS and if we need extra work done then take someone off the dole to do it.

We also need our leaders to start leading by example.

The spectacle of hogan getting soft loans from fingers fingleton, reilly being in contempt of a high court order and kenny still being entitled to a €100,000 payoff and €30k a year for teaching for 4 years in the early 70's turns my stomach but the bile here is reserved for people who don't agree with this tax.

tayto lover

Another way to save money for the state is to put an end to Tax Breaks.
If Minister Reilly and Co want to buy big houses in order to cash in later and make a big profit then why should my taxes help them. I hear his properties are exempt the Household Tax, particularly the big Stately Home in Offaly, and he wants me to pay mine ??? For his initial investment of 60k towards his Tipperary nursing home he gets back 220k in tax-breaks !!! And that's before the business starts making profits at all. Madness.

Far too many of these T.D.'s are in politics not to serve the country but to milk it dry. It's laughable really if it wasn't so serious.

On another note I saw two Securicor Vans, army and garda outside the bank in Dundalk yesterday and I laughed because I like many others know that it's being robbed from inside. Jesse James had nothing on these boys.

tayto lover

murphyebass wrote: »

Again bring on the hefty fines please.

And whose going to pay those :rolleyes:

kr7

murphyebass wrote: »

Again bring on the hefty fines please.

Your serious, aren't you?

Maybe jail a few!

murphyebass

kr7 wrote: »

murphyebass wrote: »

Again bring on the hefty fines please.

Your serious, aren't you?

Maybe jail a few!

Yup deadly serious.

Considering the severe over crowding I can't see jail time being viable but fines or community service or take away benifits, absolutely.

kr7

murphyebass wrote: »

Yup deadly serious.

Considering the severe over crowding I can't see jail time being viable but fines or community service or take away benifits, absolutely.

Do you think someone who won't pay a €100 or even a €1000 tax on the roof over their head will then just pay a hefty fine?

You haven't thought this through, have you?

tayto lover

murphyebass wrote: »

Yup deadly serious.

Considering the severe over crowding I can't see jail time being viable but fines or community service or take away benifits, absolutely.

Yes indeed. Take away their First Communion grants and prevent them hiring Hummers. That's will make them pay up.
Community Service is also a great idea. They can come and help me cut my grass and hedges.