Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

tayto lover

Flex wrote: »

I dont like income tax. I got through the interview process and was subsequently made permanent in my job myself. I negotiated my current salary by myself with my manager. I pay VAT on just about every item I buy income and on my work clothes, tax on the petrol for my car getting to and from work, etc. etc.

Also, with regards to the comparison between what paying the rates in Northern Ireland get you against what the property tax in Ireland would do, it should also be beared in mind that Northern Ireland receives a subsidy in the region of (correct me if Im wrong) about £8B (around €10B) a year from the taxpayers in the UK mainland. Roughly a €6,000 subsidy for every man, woman and child in NI. Would rates still provide all those services people keep listing if the GB taxpayer wasnt there to bridge the deficit for NI?

Maybe you should become a politician. They actually get paid to go to work. They also get paid to have lunch which i don't, i bring sandwiches. They also have food subsidised in the Dail but also get to claim a certain amount for it, i don't have anything like that. They also get cheap loans to provide themselves with a car, i don't. Even if they travel to work by train they can claim mileage, i can't. But then everything is fair :rolleyes:

On your point about the Northern Ireland charges I didn't know that.

alastair

tayto lover wrote: »

Maybe you should become a politician. They actually get paid to go to work.

You don't? I'm beginning to see a potential concern here.

tayto lover wrote: »

They also get paid to have lunch

Paid to have lunch you say!?

tayto lover wrote: »

They also have food subsidised in the Dail but also get to claim a certain amount for it

Hang on! What happened getting paid to eat lunch!? Someone's pulling a fast one on these poor people - bait and switch!

tayto lover

alastair wrote: »

You don't? I'm beginning to see a potential concern here.



Paid to have lunch you say!?



Hang on! What happened getting paid to eat lunch!? Someone's pulling a fast one on these poor people - bait and switch!

They get mileage to travel to work and get subsistence for their food while there as you well know. No need for the smart ass stuff as you can't seem to take it yourself.

alastair

tayto lover wrote: »

They get mileage to travel to work and get subsistence for their food while there as you well know. No need for the smart ass stuff as you can't seem to take it yourself.

Or alternatively - they don't get paid to eat lunch, they get mileage allowances like many other jobs, don't have a subsidised canteen/restaurant/bar (unlike many other employees do), and they don't actually get any access to cheap car loans. But feel free to vent otherwise.

tayto lover

alastair wrote: »

Or alternatively - they don't get paid to eat lunch, they get mileage allowances like many other jobs, don't have a subsidised canteen (unlike many other employees do), and they don't actually get any access to cheap car loans. But feel free to vent otherwise.

I believe some of them who are well connected also get interest only loans on several properties. Even ones they don't pay their service charges on. Boom boom.

Ghandee

alastair wrote: »

I'm guessing you paid taxes when you bought your car too?

Oh wait...

Welcome back.......

I made that choice when buying my car.
I didn't sign up to property charges on my house though.
If I had of, I'd not whinge now.

Flex wrote: »

I dont like income tax. I got through the interview process and was subsequently made permanent in my job myself. I negotiated my current salary by myself with my manager. I pay VAT on just about every item I buy income and on my work clothes, tax on the petrol for my car getting to and from work, etc. etc.

Ok..... Why you telling us this?

Flex wrote: »

Also, with regards to the comparison between what paying the rates in Northern Ireland get you against what the property tax in Ireland would do, it should also be beared in mind that Northern Ireland receives a subsidy in the region of (correct me if Im wrong) about £8B (around €10B) a year from the taxpayers in the UK mainland. Roughly a €6,000 subsidy for every man, woman and child in NI. Would rates still provide all those services people keep listing if the GB taxpayer wasnt there to bridge the deficit for NI?

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Didn't we get a similar amount from the UK last year too?

alastair

tayto lover wrote: »

I believe some of them who are well connected also get interest only loans on several properties. Even ones they don't pay their service charges on. Boom boom.

Ah - so you're really only talking about a singular politician, who also happens to have a property portfolio, getting an interest-free period to a loan, in a period when other property developers got the same treatment?

Not much of a case for any other politician to take to their bank manager for a cheap car loan then?

alastair

Ghandee wrote: »

Welcome back.......

I made that choice when buying my car.
I didn't sign up to property charges on my house though.
If I had of, I'd not whinge now.

I doubt that. You knew that we have tradionally had property tax in this state, and that the return of domestic property taxes has been mooted for many years now. Equally, you had no means of knowing what your annual motor tax might rise to over the course of your car ownership.

alastair

Ghandee wrote: »

Didn't we get a similar amount from the UK last year too?

A one-off loan that'll have to be repaid - unlike the (constant, and on-going) British subsidy to N.I.

Ghandee

alastair wrote: »

I doubt that. You knew that we have tradionally had property tax iIn this state, and that the return of domestic property taxes has been mooted for many years now. Equally, you had no means of knowing what your annual motor tax might rise to over the course of your car ownership.

No, I didn't know either of those things tbh.

Just like folk in the UK in the eighties never seen the poll tax coming, and rightfully so, they fought against that tax (and won)

I expect the same resistance next year when its considerably more than the 'token' hundred euro they asked for this year, but then, it want about the money this year was it? They wanted details on us!

Next year will really tell the tale.o

alastair

Ghandee wrote: »

No, I didn't know either of those things tbh.

Just like folk in the UK in the eighties never seen the poll tax coming, and rightfully so, they fought against that tax (and won)

I expect the same resistance next year when its considerably more than the 'token' hundred euro next year.

Next year will really tell the tale.

As I mentioned before - I opposed the poll tax, and didn't pay, but everyone with property still had to pay rates - which (in some cases) were higher than the poll tax brackets. There's no free lunch to win - if you own property you'll have to pay taxes on it - it's a fairly well understood and applied mechanism.

Ghandee

alastair wrote: »

As I mentioned before - I opposed the poll tax, and didn't pay, but everyone with property still had to pay rates - which (in some cases) were higher than the poll tax brackets. There's no free lunch to win - if you own property you'll have to pay taxes on it - it's a fairly well understood and applied mechanism.

So you respect my decision to oppose a property tax then?

alastair

Ghandee wrote: »

So you respect my decision to oppose a property tax then?

No. I paid rates, and pay property tax. You're not being asked to pay a poll tax. Apples and oranges.

Ghandee

alastair wrote: »

No. I paid rates, and pay property tax. You're not being asked to pay a poll tax. Apples and oranges.

:pac:

alastair

Ghandee wrote: »

:pac:

I'm guessing you're struggling to see the difference between a poll tax and a property tax?

kr7

alastair wrote: »

As I mentioned before - I opposed the poll tax, and didn't pay, but everyone with property still had to pay rates - which (in some cases) were higher than the poll tax brackets. There's no free lunch to win - if you own property you'll have to pay taxes on it - it's a fairly well understood and applied mechanism.

Ah, your the lad that broke the law in England but want us to pay up here.
I've heard about you on this thread.

Just read a few of your posts and I now see that's there's no point engaging with you.
As I said earlier, conversation over.

Next........

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

Ah, your the lad that broke the law in England but want us to pay up here.
I've heard about you on this thread.

Yes - the difference being that the poll tax was a regressive and unjust tax, while the property tax is unlikely to be either. I've no problem with people not paying their taxes here - as long as they're aware that they'll just end up paying more in the long run - a bonus for sorting out our state's financial difficulties.

Ghandee

alastair wrote: »

I'm guessing you're struggling to see the difference between a poll tax and a property tax?

No not at all.

I'm struggling as to what gives you the moral high ground to oppose a tax you disagree/disagreed with, while scorning me when I apply the same ethics.

A tax is a tax Alistair.

Plenty on this thread have a slogan that goes something like 'you don't get to pick and choose what taxes apply to you'

Apples and oranges?

More like goose and gander. :cool:

alastair

Ghandee wrote: »

No not at all.

I'm struggling as to what gives you the moral high ground to oppose a tax you disagree/disagreed with, while scorning me when I apply the same ethics.

A tax is a tax Alistair.

Plenty on this thread have a slogan that goes something like 'you don't get to pick and choose what taxes apply to you'

Apples and oranges?

More like goose and gander. :cool:

I'm claiming no 'moral high ground' as a poster, but if you can't deduct the moral distinctions between a poll tax and a property tax, then it's hardly worth bothering with discussion. I also made clear that I had no objections to rates - I've always paid applicable rates when I lived in the UK - and for all the bluster about poor local services here, it's the closest arrangement to the incoming property tax we'll have - I'm paying those too.

A tax can be just or unjust - apples and oranges. But no-one has made a decent case for the injustice of the property tax, and there's an awful lot of excuses for non-payment that simply smack of petulance. I fully expected to have to pay the price for my non-payment of the poll tax - I didn't delude myself that I could avoid supporting my local authority - which certainly isn't the case with this current issue, and those who haven't paid to date.

Izzy Skint

alastair wrote: »

No. I paid rates, and pay property tax. You're not being asked to pay a poll tax. Apples and oranges.

they're both fruit ?..........aren't they ?:)

Izzy Skint

alastair wrote: »

I'm claiming no 'moral high ground' as a poster, but if you can't deduct the moral distinctions between a poll tax and a property tax, then it's hardly worth bothering with discussion. I also made clear that I had no objections to rates - I've always paid applicable rates when I lived in the UK - and for all the bluster about poor local services here, it's the closest arrangement to the incoming property tax we'll have - I'm paying those too.

A tax can be just or unjust - apples and oranges. But no-one has made a decent case for the injustice of the property tax, and there's an awful lot of excuses for non-payment that simply smack of petulance. I fully expected to have to pay the price for my non-payment of the poll tax - I didn't delude myself that I could avoid supporting my local authority - which certainly isn't the case with this current issue, and those who haven't paid to date.

Hey big Phil Al. are you for f^cking real mate ??
Stop comparing UK /North with us, drop the road / motor tax sh*te....but as we are on the subject here is my opinion.....
I would gladly pay the poll tax, property tax or whatever else you want to call it in any country......IF !.....we had the same tax system as in the UK, the same level of public services they enjoy and the same cost of living here as in the UK.
NOW, tell me of those 3, how many do we have in this banana republic ?.....go on ....tell me...oh, I nearly forgot, I also want our useless politicians, system of gubberment and ps to have the same level of pay and pensions as those in the UK....Give me all those and I will pay my HHC tomorrow !:):)

ilovesleep

I don't know why some people are comparing us to the UK here with the household charge. I was talking to an english man on a night out and he said that a tesco own brand of paracetamol was 11p. Where as here it would cost, I forget what he said but it was 1 euro something. He also gave other examples of some household basics in the uk. Very, very, very cheap in that regard.

Izzy Skint

ilovesleep wrote: »

I don't know why some people are comparing us to the UK here with the household charge. I was talking to an english man on a night out and he said that a tesco own brand of paracetamol was 11p. Where as here it would cost, I forget what he said but it was 1 euro something. He also gave other examples of some household basics in the uk. Very, very, very cheap in that regard.

I agree, I remember a number of years ago a phone in on Joe Duffy discussing that very topic. People were going North to get their prescriptions filled at a fraction of the price. One woman who needed a certain type of hay fever medicine would stock up on it every time she went to Scotland, it worked out at about €1 per pack in the supermarket, she could only get it on prescription here!....and the list went on and on.

Not alone is this country a rip off it is now a nanny state. eg. once, while doing the weekly shopping, I tried to buy a bottle of calpol for my little girl and a packet of paracetamol for myself, at the checkout I could not pay for both in the same transaction so i had to leave one and come back later to buy the other....Irish Medicines Board government backed regulations !!.....but on the way out I could have purchased 10 crates of beer, 10 bottles of whiskey and 10 bottles of vodka and no questions asked !!!!......cost of living has to come down, but it never will.....what a country we have:)

Bruthal

Izzy Skint wrote: »

.....what a country we have:)

But at least we have the weather to cheer us up.

gurramok

Izzy Skint wrote: »

I would gladly pay the poll tax, property tax or whatever else you want to call it in any country......IF !.....we had the same tax system as in the UK, the same level of public services they enjoy and the same cost of living here as in the UK.
NOW, tell me of those 3, how many do we have in this banana republic ?

None? If we had the poll tax, property tax or whatever else you want to call it, then you'll have no complaint about public services?

kr7

gurramok wrote: »

None? If we had the poll tax

Leave the Polish out of it.....

Izzy Skint

gurramok wrote: »

None? If we had the poll tax, property tax or whatever else you want to call it, then you'll have no complaint about public services?

So the property tax will fix all our problems in this country ?....is that where the property tax revenue will go, towards better public services ? ....and there was me thinking it would go into the €15b deficit black hole....silly me ....... and what about the others i mentioned, tax system, cost of living, cost of ps pay and pensions in comparison to the UK?...will paying the property tax address these issues also?....

gurramok

Izzy Skint wrote: »

So the property tax will fix all our problems in this country ?....is that where the property tax revenue will go, towards better public services ? ....and there was me thinking it would go into the €15b deficit black hole....silly me ....... and what about the others i mentioned, tax system, cost of living, cost of ps pay and pensions in comparison to the UK?...will paying the property tax address these issues also?....

It will go towards narrowing the deficit. This and other taxes will help. Cost of living is related to how much we earn, if what we earn goes down, cost of living will follow. All relative.

golden lane

alastair wrote: »

Yes - the difference being that the poll tax was a regressive and unjust tax, while the property tax is unlikely to be either. I've no problem with people not paying their taxes here - as long as they're aware that they'll just end up paying more in the long run - a bonus for sorting out our state's financial difficulties.

the council tax in england..is a household charge for services......

kr7

golden lane wrote: »

the council tax in england..is a household charge for services......

From what I've read. alastair didn't pay his poll tax / council tax in the UK because he thought it was unfair.