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Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

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    #4742
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    alastair wrote: »
    You'll continue to receive the regular range of local authority services. Have you a favourite you'd like me to namecheck?

    No just one would be ok, I can decide then if I use it but someone in LA housing ( whose exempt from the charge) does'nt.


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    #4743
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    dvpower wrote: »
    Maybe not so soon, but eventually we would have gotten around to introducing a property tax again.

    Do you not think it would have been better to wait until the country was back on it's feet?

    All the uncertainty about this tax, water charges, septic tank charges, cuts and increases is crippling the local economy.

    Nobody has the confidence to commit to anything with things the way they are, everyone is saving as much as they can and as a result the local economy is dead on it's feet.

    We need to halt this decline because it's a vicious circle.


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    #4744
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    Ghandee wrote: »
    He's certainly not in negative equity I'd imagine.

    I'd say he still lives with mammy and daddy.


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    #4745
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Do you have inside knowledge or something?

    Yes, I have inside knowledge of publicly available information.


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    #4746
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Ghandee wrote: »
    No just one would be ok, I can decide then if I use it but someone in LA housing ( whose exempt from the charge) does'nt.

    Library services.

    But you're making the mistake of confusing a property tax that contributes to local authority services, with being the sole source of revenue for local authority services. Would you be happy with local authority services that are only available to wealthy tax payers - say making the library millionares-only on a Friday?

    People in Local Authority housing pay taxes too.


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    #4747
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    kr7 wrote: »
    Do you not think it would have been better to wait until the country was back on it's feet?

    All the uncertainty about this tax, water charges, septic tank charges, cuts and increases is crippling the local economy.

    Nobody has the confidence to commit to anything with things the way they are, everyone is saving as much as they can and as a result the local economy is dead on it's feet.

    We need to halt this decline because it's a vicious circle.

    Spare me the burden of the septic tank charge nonsense - what is it - a one-off €15 or something?


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    #4748
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    People in LA housing don't use library services?
    That statement says a lot.

    And once again in a reply to one of my posts, completely ignores the substantive point raised.


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    #4749
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    kr7 wrote: »
    People in LA housing don't use library services?
    That statement says a lot.

    What are you on about? :rolleyes:


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    #4750
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    kr7 wrote: »
    And once again in a reply to one of my posts, completely ignores the substantive point raised.

    There was substance in there? I thought it was comedy venting.

    If the question really is 'should we raise taxation after it's needed', then, eh, no. Happy?


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    #4751
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    When people are blinded by anger and 'moral outrage' there's no point in trying to have a discussion. The minds are closed to any other way of thinking.

    It's on both sides here and I can't see much point in really continuing but I'll plod on for another while.

    It would be helpful if other ideas/thoughts were considered and not dismissed out of hand.

    Maybe that's for another thread.....


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    #4752
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    kr7 wrote: »
    When people are blinded by anger and 'moral outrage' there's no point in trying to have a discussion. The minds are closed to any other way of thinking.

    It's on both sides here and I can't see much point in really continuing but I'll plod on for another while.

    It would be helpful if other ideas/thoughts were considered and not dismissed out of hand.

    Maybe that's for another thread.....

    I'm intrigued with your proposal for pixies to carry the welfare state overhead - can you elaborate?


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    #4753
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    To post 4750.

    No country will tax it's way out of recession.

    And I've told that poster already, I will not engage with him so stop asking me questions.

    Thank you.


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    #4754
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    kr7 wrote: »
    To post 4750.

    No country will tax it's way out of recession.

    Ah - but with the pixie contribution - everything changes.


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    #4755
    Fupping Grasshole
    Closed Accounts Posts: 130 ✭✭Fupping Grasshole


    I got up at 6am this morning. Wasn't bad, bit cloudy. Poured myself a nice tall glass of water which I will soon be charged for. All is good with the world I thought. Even went for a jog. Fantastic stuff.

    I felt unusually easy, stress free if you will. I pondered why and of course I realised pretty quickly why...I haven't paid the household charge, the lolz I got from that. :pac:


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    #4756
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    kr7 wrote: »
    Do you not think it would have been better to wait until the country was back on it's feet?
    Its part of the plan to get the country back on its feet. It was mandated by the trioka.
    kr7 wrote: »
    We need to halt this decline because it's a vicious circle.
    We need a sustainable tax base.


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    #4757
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Fupping Grasshole wrote: »
    I felt unusually easy, stress free if you will. I pondered why and of course I realised pretty quickly why...I haven't paid the household charge, the lolz I got from that. :pac:

    Heh. That feeling might get a bit deflated when the day come's round you have to pay that bit more for the delay in payment. Or maybe you'll feel great that day too - who knows?


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    #4758
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    dvpower wrote: »
    Its part of the plan to get the country back on its feet. It was mandated by the trioka.


    We need a sustainable tax base.

    If the unemployment rate continues rising as it is and the local economy can't reverse it's decline, we will never have a sustainable tax base.


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    #4759
    Fupping Grasshole
    Closed Accounts Posts: 130 ✭✭Fupping Grasshole


    alastair wrote: »
    Heh. That feeling might get a bit deflated when the day come's round you have to pay that bit more for the delay in payment. Or maybe you'll feel great that day too - who knows?

    The lolz when I thought of that too but I realised I'll never actually have to pay since I didn't sign up for it :pac: Life's great


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    #4760
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    kr7 wrote: »
    If the unemployment rate continues rising as it is and the local economy can't reverse it's decline, we will never have a sustainable tax base.
    So lets shift the taxation burden onto areas that don't impact job creation as much as Income Tax does.


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    #4761
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Fupping Grasshole wrote: »
    The lolz when I thought of that too but I realised I'll never actually have to pay since I didn't sign up for it :pac: Life's great

    Did you sign up for the USC then?


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    #4762
    Fupping Grasshole
    Closed Accounts Posts: 130 ✭✭Fupping Grasshole


    alastair wrote: »
    Did you sign up for the USC then?

    Do you know the difference between a tax and a charge then?


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    #4763
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,824 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    So to sum it all up, only home owners have to cough up extra money to pay for everyone to use the services.


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    #4764
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Fupping Grasshole wrote: »
    Do you know the difference between a tax and a charge then?

    There's none - HHC, USC - both taxes, despite the 'C's.


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    #4765
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Hijpo wrote: »
    So to sum it all up, only home owners have to cough up extra money to pay for everyone to use the services.

    Just as only car owners have to cough up extra money to pay for everyone to use state services.

    It's terrible, isn't it?


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    #4766
    Fupping Grasshole
    Closed Accounts Posts: 130 ✭✭Fupping Grasshole


    alastair wrote: »
    There's none - HHC, USC - both taxes, despite the 'C's.

    I don't really have time for this but...

    "The Universal Social Charge is a tax payable on gross income, including notional pay, after any relief for certain capital allowances, but before pension contributions."

    from http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/usc/index.html

    and

    "The Household Charge is an annual charge introduced by the Local Government (Household Charge) Act 2011 which is payable by owners of residential property. It is a matter for owners of residential properties to register and pay the Household Charge on or after the 1st of January 2012."

    from https://www.householdcharge.ie/default.aspx

    Thanks for your time.


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    #4767
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Fupping Grasshole wrote: »
    I don't really have time for this but...

    "The Universal Social Charge is a tax payable on gross income, including notional pay, after any relief for certain capital allowances, but before pension contributions."

    from http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/usc/index.html

    and

    "The Household Charge is an annual charge introduced by the Local Government (Household Charge) Act 2011 which is payable by owners of residential property. It is a matter for owners of residential properties to register and pay the Household Charge on or after the 1st of January 2012."

    from https://www.householdcharge.ie/default.aspx

    Thanks for your time.

    Yep - as I said - both are taxes.

    I'm guessing you didn't sign up to pay your USC then?


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    #4768
    Fupping Grasshole
    Closed Accounts Posts: 130 ✭✭Fupping Grasshole


    alastair wrote: »
    Yep - as I said - both are taxes.

    I'm guessing you didn't sign up to pay your USC then?

    Where exactly does it say that the HHC is a tax....:confused:


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    #4769
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Fupping Grasshole wrote: »
    Where exactly does it say that the HHC is a tax....:confused:

    On the page you linked to. https://www.householdcharge.ie/default.aspx

    What? You didn't read it?

    I'm guessing you didn't sign up to pay your USC then?


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    #4770
    Fupping Grasshole
    Closed Accounts Posts: 130 ✭✭Fupping Grasshole


    alastair wrote: »
    On the page you linked to. https://www.householdcharge.ie/default.aspx

    A property tax, requiring a comprehensive property valuation system, would take time to introduce and accordingly    , to meet the requirements in the EU/IMF Programme, the Government has decided to introduce a Household Charge in 2012.The Household Charge is an interim measure only and a comprehensive and equitable valuation-based property tax will be introduced as soon as possible.

    You mean this? The tax that has not been introduced yet. Oh right :D


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    #4771
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Fupping Grasshole wrote: »

    A property tax, requiring a comprehensive property valuation system, would take time to introduce and accordingly    , to meet the requirements in the EU/IMF Programme, the Government has decided to introduce a Household Charge in 2012.The Household Charge is an interim measure only and a comprehensive and equitable valuation-based property tax will be introduced as soon as possible.

    You mean this? The tax that has not been introduced yet. Oh right :D

    Nope - the interim tax that they were obliged to introduce while they ironed out the details of a fully fledged version.
    The EU/IMF Programme of Financial Support for Ireland commits the Government to the introduction of a property tax for 2012.

    Note that the government is in full compliance with the programme - the troika said as much.


This discussion has been closed.
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