Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

Fupping Grasshole

alastair wrote: »

Nope - the interim tax that they were obliged to introduce while they ironed out the details of a fully fledged version.

"The Household Charge is an interim measure only"

Go again :pac:

alastair wrote: »

Note that the government is in full compliance with the programme - the troika said as much.

The government are great boys aren't they. I heard they get top marks on their report cards and everything.

alastair

Fupping Grasshole wrote: »

"The Household Charge is an interim measure only"

Sure - an interim tax. That we were obliged to introduce.

Fupping Grasshole

alastair wrote: »

Sure - an interim tax. That we were obliged to introduce.

It clearly says "interim measure".

alastair

Fupping Grasshole wrote: »

It clearly says "interim measure".

You want clarity?:

The EU/IMF Programme of Financial Support for Ireland commits the Government to the introduction of a property tax for 2012.

Ghandee

alastair wrote: »

Library services.

But you're making the mistake of confusing a property tax that contributes to local authority services, with being the sole source of revenue for local authority services. Would you be happy with local authority services that are only available to wealthy tax payers - say making the library millionares-only on a Friday?

People in Local Authority housing pay taxes too.

That's not what I asked for.

I asked for a service I use that someone in an LA provided house doesn't use.

(incidentally I haven't used a library in over twenty years)

Fupping Grasshole

alastair wrote: »

You want clarity?:

"The EU/IMF Programme of Financial Support for Ireland commits the Government to the introduction of a property tax for 2012."

They sure do, now where exactly does it say that good boys in the government have done this? :pac:

alastair

Ghandee wrote: »

That's not what I asked for.

I asked for a service I use that someone in an LA provided house doesn't use.

(incidentally I haven't used a library in over twenty years)

Well - you should get back in there.

No - there's no local authority services available to you that aren't available to people living in local authority housing. You do recognise that they pay taxes too, yep?

alastair

Fupping Grasshole wrote: »

"The EU/IMF Programme of Financial Support for Ireland commits the Government to the introduction of a property tax for 2012."

They sure do, now where exactly does it say that good boys in the government have done this? :pac:

The troika have said that we're in full compliance with the terms of the programme - you don't believe them, as well as your own government?

Chips Lovell

Is there any practical difference at all on whether it is labelled a tax or a charge?

Fupping Grasshole

alastair wrote: »

The troika have said that we're in full compliance with the terms of the programme - you don't believe them, as well as your own government?

:rolleyes:

alastair

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Is there any practical difference at all on whether it is labelled a tax or a charge?

Nope - see the USC for example. Both taxes, but called charges.

The word 'charge' offers tax evaders the opportunity to delude themselves there's a possible loophole they can take advantage of to avoid paying the tax. It's kinda like the sort of nonsense 'Freemen' apply to various laws - and just as effective.

Fupping Grasshole

alastair wrote: »

Nope - see the USC for example. Both taxes, but called charges.

The word 'charge' offers tax evaders the opportunity to delude themselves there's a possible loophole they can take advantage of to avoid paying the tax. It's kinda like a watery version of the sort of nonsense 'Freemen' apply to various laws - and just as effective.

It's there in black & white for you anyway but you can choose to ignore it if you want. HHC is a charge, an interim measure until the introduction of a property tax.

Chips Lovell

But is there any real practical difference between the two, other than the name?

alastair

Fupping Grasshole wrote: »

It's there in black & white.

It sure is.

The EU/IMF Programme of Financial Support for Ireland commits the Government to the introduction of a property tax for 2012.

alastair

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

But is there any real practical difference between the two, other than the name?

No. Unless you love red herrings. Taxes, charges, levies, rates - they're all terms the state and local government uses for mechanisms to generate revenue. None of these involve voluntary opt-in's or a requirement to sign up - unsurprisingly.

Fupping Grasshole

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

But is there any real practical difference between the two, other than the name?

I'd say there's a difference between a charge and a tax alright. Sure UPC have a charge but I've never signed up for it and I don't avail of their service...haven't gone to jail over it yet.

alastair

Fupping Grasshole wrote: »

I'd say there's a difference between a charge and a tax alright. Sure UPC have a charge but I've never signed up for it and I don't avail of their service...haven't gone to jail over it yet.

That works a treat for TV licence summons cases in front of the judge. I'd say it'll be equally successful here.

Fupping Grasshole

alastair wrote: »

That works a treat for TV licence summons cases in front of the judge. I'd say it'll be equally successful here.

They've heard all the excuses before but I bet they haven't heard that one. :pac:

Chips Lovell

Fupping Grasshole wrote: »

I'd say there's a difference between a charge and a tax alright. Sure UPC have a charge but I've never signed up for it and I don't avail of their service...haven't gone to jail over it yet.

You mean the television company?

Fupping Grasshole

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

You mean the television company?

Yup

Valetta

Fupping Grasshole wrote: »

I'd say there's a difference between a charge and a tax alright. Sure UPC have a charge but I've never signed up for it and I don't avail of their service...haven't gone to jail over it yet.

Is there a legal obligation to pay anything to UPC?

Chips Lovell

OK.... So you're saying the difference between a tax and a charge is that private companies like UPC have a charge and because you're not a subscriber you don't have to pay that charge. Therefore you shouldn't have to pay the household charge?

alastair

Valetta wrote: »

Is there a legal obligation to pay anything to UPC?

He's just winding you up.

Fupping Grasshole

Valetta wrote: »

Is there a legal obligation to pay anything to UPC?

Is there a legal obligation to pay HHC?

alastair

Fupping Grasshole wrote: »

Is there a legal obligation to pay HHC?

Yep.

Valetta

Fupping Grasshole wrote: »

Is there a legal obligation to pay HHC?

Of course.

Hijpo

alastair wrote: »

Ghandee wrote: »

That's not what I asked for.

I asked for a service I use that someone in an LA provided house doesn't use.

(incidentally I haven't used a library in over twenty years)

Well - you should get back in there.

No - there's no local authority services available to you that aren't available to people living in local authority housing. You do recognise that they pay taxes too, yep?

are other taxes used to pay for local services? if yes then we will be paying twice for the servces. if not then they dont pay the hhc or property tax therefor they dont contribute to the funding for the services.

Fupping Grasshole

Valetta wrote: »

Of course.

Have any cases been brought before a court?

alastair

Hijpo wrote: »

are other taxes used to pay for local services? if yes then we will be paying twice for the servces. if not then they dont pay the hhc or property tax therefor they dont contribute to the funding for the services.

Other taxes pay for additional revenue to support local authority spending. No-one's paying twice.

Valetta

Fupping Grasshole wrote: »

Have any cases been brought before a court?

Not relevant.