Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] Poll Reset

alastair · 19-07-2012 4:43pm

kr7 wrote: »

What's your point?

When we get out of this mess the unemployment figure will drop, the rest will keep rising.

The point? Bond bailouts are small fry in our overall deficit. Even without them we'd still be in the ****e.

dvpower · 19-07-2012 4:45pm

alastair wrote: »

Eh - the actual breakdown of where your taxes are going: http://www.ronanlyons.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Monthly-tax-bill.png

Interesting breakdown and puts the lie to those who think that our current problems are all down to paying back unsecured bondholders.

kr7 · 19-07-2012 4:48pm

alastair wrote: »

You seem to get that we've been running the country on loans for a number of years now - and that one requirement of those lenders was that we, yep, pay off those unsecured bondholders. We had the option of saying no of course, but that €85 billion rescue, plus whatever amount the ECB were propping us up by in previous state bond issues, might have been need over the past three years. I doubt anyone is laughing at us - we had no real options.

The bondholders must be splitting their sides.

Unsecured secondary bondholders, nothing to do with the 2008 bank guarantee, must be splitting their sides and can't believe their luck.

"Here lads, the thick paddy's are guaranteeing us our money back plus whatever interest we want, it's a win win win, another bottle of crystal, waiter

:D:D"

kr7 · 19-07-2012 4:49pm

Valetta wrote: »

Wonderful response.

I haven't seen any evidence that we are the laughing stock of Europe, and I suspect you haven't either.

I am very copped on.

Well done you. Well done.

alastair · 19-07-2012 4:52pm

kr7 wrote: »

The bondholders must be splitting their sides.

Unsecured secondary bondholders, nothing to do with the 2008 bank guarantee, must be splitting their sides and can't believe their luck.

"Here lads, the thick paddy's are guaranteeing us our money back plus whatever interest we want, it's a win win win, another bottle of crystal, waiter :D:D"

ehh, again - 'Thick Paddy' made no such guarantee. But don't let that cramp your style.

Valetta · 19-07-2012 4:53pm

kr7 wrote: »

Well done you. Well done.

So you've nothing to back up your statement that we are the laughing stock of Europe?

That's ok then.

kr7 · 19-07-2012 4:55pm

One question for all the FG/Lab, pro taxers here.

With all of the hot air, re-hashed bull****e we've heard from enda & co about jobs and stimulus plans in the last few days before their 2 month holiday, I've got one question.

Where are the jobs that were promised?

Simple, 16 months in office and all the ****e about creating jobs and the unemployment rate is rising by the day.

Where are all the jobs that were promised?

kr7 · 19-07-2012 4:55pm

alastair wrote: »

ehh, again - 'Thick Paddy' made no such guarantee. But don't let that cramp your style.

Do you live in a hole?

golden lane · 19-07-2012 4:56pm

donalg1 wrote: »

But in the UK they do this and that so maybe we should too, even if it is done in completely different circumstances over there we should just do it too because in the UK thats what they do!!;)

there may be a few big surprises for the uk people in the near future......

there is no comparison with the uk's problems and irelands......the difference in populations makes that obvious....and it is unwise to make them...

alastair · 19-07-2012 4:57pm

kr7 wrote: »

Do you live in a hole?

Clearly you don't know what you're talking about - why not go and educate yourself?

kr7 · 19-07-2012 4:57pm

Valetta wrote: »

So you've nothing to back up your statement that we are the laughing stock of Europe?

That's ok then.

Oh yes, I'm sorry, there's people in brussels who compile such information.

Stop trolling.

kr7 · 19-07-2012 5:00pm

alastair wrote: »

Clearly you don't know what you're talking about - why not go and educate yourself?

You've educated me enough, you've shown me the way, you've shown me that if I don't like a charge/tax that it's perfectly ok not to pay it.

I'm only doing what you did in England.

Izzy Skint · 19-07-2012 5:04pm

Alastair, I have answered these for you since you did not have the balls to do it yourself, just as the govt. do not have the balls to take the right decisions and cut its spending...

1. are Irish politicians / public sector workers paid more than in the UK ? YES
2. are Irish public sector pensions higher than those in the UK ? YES
3. do Irish workers pay higher rates of tax than those in the UK ? YES
4. is the general cost of living in Ireland higher than in the UK ? YES
5. is the VAT rate in Ireland higher than the UK ? YES
6. are public services in UK better than in Ireland ? YES
7. are childcare costs in Ireland higher than in the UK ? YES
8. is VRT applied to cars in the UK ? NO
9. are welfare payments, rent allowances etc. higherin Ireland than in the UK ? YES
10. do you think there is more political / public accountability in the UK than Ireland? YES

I have never said that the UK is utopian, show me where did I say that ?... it has many problems of its own, but the cost of living is far lower, public pay + pensions are far lower and public services are far better than here. At least you can see some benefits from the tax you pay...unlike Ireland.

I have never said that taxes do not need to be paid....show me where I have said that ?

Izzy Skint · 19-07-2012 5:09pm

golden lane wrote: »

there may be a few big surprises for the uk people in the near future......

there is no comparison with the uk's problems and irelands......the difference in populations makes that obvious....and it is unwise to make them...

and no doubt there will be a few more for the Irish people also...

Valetta · 19-07-2012 5:09pm

kr7 wrote: »

Oh yes, I'm sorry, there's people in brussels who compile such information.

Stop trolling.

Do you live in a hole?

Well done you. Well done.

Cop on to yourself!

And you ask me to stop trolling?

kr7 · 19-07-2012 5:10pm

Izzy Skint wrote: »

Alastair, I have answered these for you since you did not have the balls to do it yourself, just as the govt. do not have the balls to take the right decisions and cut its spending...

1. are Irish politicians / public sector workers paid more than in the UK ? YES
2. are Irish public sector pensions higher than those in the UK ? YES
3. do Irish workers pay higher rates of tax than those in the UK ? YES
4. is the general cost of living in Ireland higher than in the UK ? YES
5. is the VAT rate in Ireland higher than the UK ? YES
6. are public services in UK better than in Ireland ? YES
7. are childcare costs in Ireland higher than in the UK ? YES
8. is VRT applied to cars in the UK ? NO
9. are welfare payments, rent allowances etc. higherin Ireland than in the UK ? YES
10. do you think there is more political / public accountability in the UK than Ireland? YES

I have never said that the UK is utopian, show me where did I say that ?... it has many problems of its own, but the cost of living is far lower, public pay + pensions are far lower and public services are far better than here. At least you can see some benefits from the tax you pay...unlike Ireland.

I have never said that taxes do not need to be paid....show me where I have said that ?

It's not that the pro taxers don't know the answers, it's just that the anger they carry with them blinkers their views.
One can only feel pity for them.

kr7 · 19-07-2012 5:11pm

Valetta wrote: »

And you ask me to stop trolling?

Yep, be off with you now!
I've just discovered the ignore list, cool.

Izzy Skint · 19-07-2012 5:12pm

Valetta wrote: »

Wonderful response.

I haven't seen any evidence that we are the laughing stock of Europe, and I suspect you haven't either.

I am very copped on.

not the laughing stock of Europe ?....club med. in the north atlantic...:D:D

alastair · 19-07-2012 5:12pm

kr7 wrote: »

You've educated me enough, you've shown me the way, you've shown me that if I don't like a charge/tax that it's perfectly ok not to pay it.

I'm only doing what you did in England.

Okaaay. Maybe you might now direct your attention to the nature and limits of the State bank guarantee, and directed that unsecured bondholders should be paid?

kr7 · 19-07-2012 5:13pm

dvpower wrote: »

Interesting breakdown and puts the lie to those who think that our current problems are all down to paying back unsecured bondholders.

Who said that our problems are all down to paying back unsecured bondholders?

kr7 · 19-07-2012 5:17pm

alastair wrote: »

Okaaay. Maybe you might now direct your attention to the nature and limits of the State bank guarantee, and directed that unsecured bondholders should be paid?

Not going to bother doing your homework for you but a quick read of this shows the folly of our ways.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CE8QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnewspaper%2Ffinance%2F2012%2F0127%2F1224310806521.html&ei=AjAIUJD0MYbIhAesmczBAw&usg=AFQjCNG4BPwYktWqbIoIbvEybcdtQRQVuQ&sig2=cKRYr-L-hcaZ8xWVP4mKyw

But sure, what would he know.

alastair · 19-07-2012 5:22pm

kr7 wrote: »

Not going to bother doing your homework for you but a quick read of this shows the folly of our ways.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CE8QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnewspaper%2Ffinance%2F2012%2F0127%2F1224310806521.html&ei=AjAIUJD0MYbIhAesmczBAw&usg=AFQjCNG4BPwYktWqbIoIbvEybcdtQRQVuQ&sig2=cKRYr-L-hcaZ8xWVP4mKyw

But sure, what would he know.

Care to point out anything in that, that suggests we guaranteed unsecured bond holders anything?

Clue: Nothing does - because we didn't.

golden lane · 19-07-2012 5:25pm

kr7 wrote: »

Not going to bother doing your homework for you but a quick read of this shows the folly of our ways.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CE8QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnewspaper%2Ffinance%2F2012%2F0127%2F1224310806521.html&ei=AjAIUJD0MYbIhAesmczBAw&usg=AFQjCNG4BPwYktWqbIoIbvEybcdtQRQVuQ&sig2=cKRYr-L-hcaZ8xWVP4mKyw

But sure, what would he know.

it's amazing how many financial experts...arrive to late......especially from a country that owes so much money........the figure is beyond comprehension.....

kr7 · 19-07-2012 5:30pm

alastair wrote: »

Care to point out anything in that, that suggests we guaranteed unsecured bond holders anything?

Clue: Nothing does - because we didn't.

If you like being pedantic, don't let me stop you.
Leave out the word guaranteed then.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CF4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnewspaper%2Ffinance%2F2012%2F0412%2F1224314639638.html&ei=kjUIUKfWIILKhAew2MHCAw&usg=AFQjCNEUAvpM_tUu0WqeLhIZhYOYYwzqRQ&sig2=Hr75COOAGYeJ-n_DTCK2JA

kr7 · 19-07-2012 5:35pm

You pro tax lot shouldn't be on this thread if your not prepared to discuss subjects in a proper manner.

Why don't you start a new thread called 'are you smug because you've paid the household charge?'

That way you can congratulate each other all you liked and wouldn't have to deal with charge defaulters like us.

Fix my post there alastair if it makes you feel better(smugger).

Izzy Skint · 19-07-2012 5:38pm

golden lane wrote: »

it's amazing how many financial experts...arrive to late......especially from a country that owes so much money........the figure is beyond comprehension.....

financial experts arrived too late....are you for real ????
economists were warning the govt. years before the property crash in 2008 and what notice did the govt. do....the govt. attacked anyone who dared to issue a warning, remember Bertie's 'suicide' quote ?
I remember way back in the McCreevy years, europe told him numerous times to cool govt. spending, it was growing too fast....but what did he do ?.....he gave 2 fingers to europe, told them we can afford it and carried on spending at an ever increasing rate !!!!....that is why we have a deficit now....please do not come out with ridiculous statements like that again.

kr7 · 19-07-2012 5:39pm

Hold the press, there might be a chink of light at the end of the tunnel.
The poor sickly PS/CS workers might have to work a few more fridays / mondays now.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0719/sick-leave-for-public-servants-to-be-halved-business.html

golden lane · 19-07-2012 5:43pm

Izzy Skint wrote: »

financial experts arrived too late....are you for real ????
economists were warning the govt. years before the property crash in 2008 and what notice did the govt. do....the govt. attacked anyone who dared to issue a warning, remember Bertie's 'suicide' quote ?
I remember way back in the McCreevy years, europe told him numerous times to cool govt. spending, it was growing too fast....but what did he do ?.....he gave 2 fingers to europe, told them we can afford it and carried on spending at an ever increasing rate !!!!....that is why we have a deficit now....please do not come out with ridiculous statements like that again.

i am well aware of what has gone on.......if you read my post you will understand it better......

alastair · 19-07-2012 5:46pm

kr7 wrote: »

If you like being pedantic, don't let me stop you.
Leave out the word guaranteed then.

Pedantic? Who dictated that unsecured bondholders should be paid - were they within Ireland or not? Because you were quite insistent on this point only a few minutes ago. Wrong - but insistent nonetheless.

donalg1 · 19-07-2012 6:21pm

kr7 wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

And I pointed out how ridiculous this statement was, which you have chosen to ignore.

It would be ridiculous to borrow that €500 million, use it to fix the leaks by employing X amount of people, taking them off the dole and having them then spend their wages in the local economy?
The €500 million could then be paid back by the householder over a 20 year timescale.

Ridiculous?

Maybe that's why since your shower got their feet under the table the unemployment rate rising month on month, year on year.

Tax tax tax, that's the answer.
A strategy that's working so well.

The laughing stock of europe, dumb paddy's, pay back all the unsecured bondholders and screw your own economy.

It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

Your young donal, maybe when you have another few years behind you and you've grown up a bit more you'll understand.

First of all can I say ha ha ha. You want us to borrow more money when we don't need to ha ha ha. that is the most ridiculous and idiotic and completely and utterly stupid thing I have ever read on boards and that is saying something.

Grow up a bit good one save the patronizing sh1te for someone else. You seem intent on wasting money that's not there and I need to grow up, ok sure thing.

And what is my shower that you refer to may I ask?

See my option makes money yours wastes money.

Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

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Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] Poll Reset