Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

Izzy Skint

lugha wrote: »

Izzy, rather than bother with silly 20 question games why don’t you make whatever point you are trying to make and we can respond to it?

I would guess your point would broadly go along the lines that their needs to be massive cuts and adjustments in public sector spending / pay? To which my response, and I suspect most of the others would be to thank you for stating the blindingly obvious!

No serious observer could think we could deal with our deficit (which requires adjustments in the ball park of €10,000 per worker per year!) without major changes in the PS pay/pensions & welfare etc.

But that is not what is being discussed on this thread. In between Kr7’s attempts to flirt with Allister, we are trying to discuss the other mechanism in dealing with a deficit, which is the introduction of newer or higher taxes, the HHC in particular. And once again I would say that no serious observer thinks we could completely rule out any new taxes in our attempts to achieve this goal. Do you seriously think we can?

Lugha, fair play to you for responding.
Yes, the need for massive spending cuts is obvious, but not obvious enough to the gov. and not to many here...
What I am saying is this, spending cuts need to be increased greatly and should have been done 3/4 years ago, in fact we should never have got up to the level of spending we are currently at in the first place, over generous welfare system, wasteful health system, expensive education system, BENCHMARKING etc soaked up all the property boom tax.... would you agree with that ?.....the boom time tax has disappeared, it should never have been there in the first place, so is it not logical now to reverse spending in areas where this tax was spent ????

The average worker has been hit hard already, tax increases, usc, mortgage rates, vat increase, health insurance, job losses, pay freezes, pay cuts etc.....would you agree with that ?....

Govt tax take has not decreased as many say it has, if it has, how come my take home pay has shrunk over the past 3 years ??...the perceived smaller tax take is down to a number of factors, we now have 300,000 less people working than 4 years ago so less tax is paid, many still in work have had their pay cut or at least frozen at its current level.....and all of this at a time when the govt. have increased the cost of every public service I can think of when they should be actually trying to reduce the cost of living ! ...they are still paying increases to ps workers ffs !!!

Remember, every week that goes by we are overspending by another €300m!.. money well spent ?...by delaying with these cuts, the govt. are only making the problem worse and increasing the length of time it will take to get out of this mess.

This is not a tax revenue problem, it is a spending problem.... a combination of tax increases / spending cuts will not solve this....tick tock !

lugha

Izzy Skint wrote: »

.... a combination of tax increases / spending cuts will not solve this....

What? Is there a third way?
Again I say this thread is about the HHC, not PS cuts. One of the reasons we ended up with such a massive deficit is because we replied on temporary, property-related, taxes. If we had a property tax in place in 2008 would you not accept that we would be a much healthier position now? So why object to doing the right think now, albeit several decades too late?

And are you continuing to argue that the equivalent of €10,000 per worker per year can be saved from public sector employees (they are workers too!) and welfare cuts alone and that private sector workers need not make any further contribution? (The latter did enjoy considerable benefits from the boom years as well don't forget)

donalg1

Thankfully sense seems to have prevailed and the thread was brought back on track just read through seven pages of kr7 and alastaur abusing each other attacking each other and silly remarks like Orange men blah blah blah being thrown around not to mention sh1te like I'm gettin my solicitors after you for somethin you said on boards.ie.

Now ffs no more hijacking of a thread with the above stupidity please.

Rant over.

alastair

donalg1 wrote: »

Thankfully sense seems to have prevailed and the thread was brought back on track just read through seven pages of kr7 and alastaur abusing each other attacking each other and silly remarks like Orange men blah blah blah being thrown around not to mention sh1te like I'm gettin my solicitors after you for somethin you said on boards.ie.

Now ffs no more hijacking of a thread with the above stupidity please.

Rant over.

Amen to that.

darkhorse

lugha wrote: »

What? Is there a third way?
Again I say this thread is about the HHC, not PS cuts. One of the reasons we ended up with such a massive deficit is because we replied on temporary, property-related, taxes. If we had a property tax in place in 2008 would you not accept that we would be a much healthier position now? So why object to doing the right think now, albeit several decades too late?

And are you continuing to argue that the equivalent of €10,000 per worker per year can be saved from public sector employees (they are workers too!) and welfare cuts alone and that private sector workers need not make any further contribution? (The latter did enjoy considerable benefits from the boom years as well don't forget)

I'll say they did. In paticular some bankers and some developers. I really have to go now, the barman wont give me any more. Night, all.

alastair

lugha wrote: »

What? Is there a third way?

Isn't it obvious? - forum ranting our way out of deficit.

kr7

donalg1 wrote: »

Thankfully sense seems to have prevailed and the thread was brought back on track just read through seven pages of kr7 and alastaur abusing each other attacking each other and silly remarks like Orange men blah blah blah being thrown around not to mention sh1te like I'm gettin my solicitors after you for somethin you said on boards.ie.

Now ffs no more hijacking of a thread with the above stupidity please.

Rant over.

Thanks Donal, that alastair gets up my nose with his double standards.

I never mentioned solicitors, that was dv and alastair.
Alastair was changing my posts to suit his agenda.

We'll stay on topic now and as I said to lugha it should be possible to have a sensible discussion.

Izzy Skint

lugha wrote: »

What? Is there a third way?
Again I say this thread is about the HHC, not PS cuts. One of the reasons we ended up with such a massive deficit is because we replied on temporary, property-related, taxes. If we had a property tax in place in 2008 would you not accept that we would be a much healthier position now? So why object to doing the right think now, albeit several decades too late?

And are you continuing to argue that the equivalent of €10,000 per worker per year can be saved from public sector employees (they are workers too!) and welfare cuts alone and that private sector workers need not make any further contribution? (The latter did enjoy considerable benefits from the boom years as well don't forget)

Third way ???...i am on about the only way, govt. spending cuts.
you said "One of the reasons we ended up with such a massive deficit is because we replied on temporary, property-related, taxes."....wrong...we were getting along relatively ok before the prop. related taxes....we ended up with a massive deficit because we spent the prop. related taxes on increasing welfare rates, benchmarking etc. etc. ....if we did not do this we would not have a massive deficit now, or at least it would be only a fraction of what it is .
Any "considerable benefits" the private sector got has been wiped out and more...remember what i said about my take home pay etc. ?
If we had a property tax in place in 2008 we would have an even BIGGER deficit now, the govt. would have wasted spent that too on the usual areas welfare, health, ps pay + pensions....we would be further up the creek...if that is possible !
400,000 private sector workers are on the dole...they once were workers too !!!
Are you saying that we should share more pain equally just so we don't make redundant or cut pay + pensions of people in certain overpaid, wasteful, incompetent and cossetted sectors of the economy ???... is that what you are saying????
....sure God help us....my heart bleeds....and what about the 100,000 + private sector who have emmigrated ?....any comment there ?????
What has this all got to do with the hhc ?...EVERYTHING...just ask yourself, why is the hhc being brought in ?

Izzy Skint

ALASTAIR, are you ignoring me and my posts ?....oh, nearly forgot, I have more questions for you to answer, nothing too difficult, they will be multiple choice answers...YES or NO.... but I will hold them back for the moment... he he.

Izzy Skint

must go now...bed time...to be continued tomorrow

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

I never mentioned solicitors, that was dv and alastair.

Heh. Quite the mystery what you were referring to here then. :rolleyes:

Getting close to slanderous there alastair, directly calling me a tax evader. Careful.
You can be traced by your IP address you know.

Your doing it again, you've been reported for breaking the forum rules and mods have been told that these posts may be required pending further action.
...

But, carry on slandering me if that's what you want to do. You have been warned.

Not a mystery to everyone though: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79835296&postcount=5422

lugha

Izzy Skint wrote: »

we were getting along relatively ok before the prop. related taxes....we ended up with a massive deficit because we spent the prop. related taxes on increasing welfare rates, benchmarking etc. etc. ....

If we had a property tax in place in 2008 we would have an even BIGGER deficit now.

If you assume a property tax would have been in addition to our other taxes then of course, we would hardly be any better of. But if we had a property tax instead of stamp duty then we would have had a much more robust revenue stream.

If the revenue is there it is inevitable that any government will spend it in ways that will prolong their time in power. In the future we might hope that governments will do what is in the long term interests of the country, even if another administration gets all the credit. Slightly more realistically, we can modify our tax structures so that they are not so dependent on the continued “success” of the next Ponzi scheme. Hence the case for a property tax.

Out of curiosity, do you have an objection in principle to a property tax? Or are you opposed to any further adjustment measures that directly impact on you?

Izzy Skint wrote: »

Are you saying that we should share more pain equally just so we don't make redundant or cut pay + pensions of people in certain overpaid, wasteful, incompetent and cossetted sectors of the economy ???... is that what you are saying????

Oddly enough, no, that is not what I am saying. I have readily conceded that there will have to massive adjustments in the public sector (I suspect you are slightly disappointed that I do have this view). We differ in that I believe that new taxes as well as spending cuts is necessary. You want it all to come from cuts (i.e. measures that don’t further effect you!)

Izzy Skint wrote: »

400,000 private sector workers are on the dole...they once were workers too !!!

and what about the 100,000 + private sector who have emmigrated ?

Devastating for those directly affected, the former especially. But this has no impact on you so stop trying to pretend that this is part of the pain you must personally endure. And it rings a bit hollow too as you seem to be anticipating with such glee the prospect of PS workers getting the boot. I expect, regrettably, that this will have to happen (I would prefer wage cuts though) but I won’t be celebrating anyone in any sector losing their job.

kr7

alastair wrote: »

Heh. Quite the mystery what you were referring to here then. :rolleyes:

Yea, IP address, phone number, location.

Careful now troll.

Away up the road with you!

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

Yea, IP address, phone number, location.

Careful now troll.

Away up the road with you!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79835296&postcount=5422


Keep digging that hole - liar.

kr7

alastair wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79835296&postcount=5422


Keep digging that hole - liar.

Ah, name calling again.
Next it'll be taig.

Well done you.

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

Ah, name calling again.

When you're caught out lying - it makes you a liar. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news - liar.

kr7

alastair wrote: »

When you're caught out lying - it makes you a liar. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news - liar.

Well done you.
And I thought it was lemons that were bitter.

alastair

lugha wrote: »

Devastating for those directly affected, the former especially. But this has no impact on you so stop trying to pretend that this is part of the pain you must personally endure. And it rings a bit hollow too as you seem to be anticipating with such glee the prospect of PS workers getting the boot. I expect, regrettably, that this will have to happen (I would prefer wage cuts though) but I won’t be celebrating anyone in any sector losing their job.

I wouldn't worry too much about Mr Skint's alternative to taxing and cutbacks - it's purely for comedic purposes:

how about cutting €4b from social welfare NOW!!....cut public pay by 40% for earners over €35k.....cut all public pensions by AT LEAST 40% NOW!!!.

I'm sure he's costed out the impact of this in terms of it's impact on the deficit, and there's no need for any tax increases alongside these necessary measures. No more impacting on Mr Skint though - that's for sure!

Le_Dieux

I have been following this thread but now it's personal feelings between 2 people who have taken away any interest I have in continuing to follow the thread.

PLEASE PLEASE.......Can we just talk about HHC, not about who is calling who a liar/threats of libel etc???

BTW, I never paid the HHC, and also never got this famous reminder letter every non-paying household was supposed to get 2-3 weeks ago.

kr7

Le_Dieux wrote: »

I have been following this thread but now it's personal feelings between 2 people who have taken away any interest I have in continuing to follow the thread.

PLEASE PLEASE.......Can we just talk about HHC, not about who is calling who a liar/threats of libel etc???

BTW, I never paid the HHC, and also never got this famous reminder letter every non-paying household was supposed to get 2-3 weeks ago.

As you can see from my post 5468, I agreed with donal and want to keep it on topic.
Already the name calling has started again from yer man alastair and it's not just aimed at me.
Best to put him on the ignore list I suppose.

Haven't paid this charge myself and won't be paying it either.

alastair

Le_Dieux wrote: »

I have been following this thread but now it's personal feelings between 2 people who have taken away any interest I have in continuing to follow the thread.

PLEASE PLEASE.......Can we just talk about HHC, not about who is calling who a liar/threats of libel etc???

BTW, I never paid the HHC, and also never got this famous reminder letter every non-paying household was supposed to get 2-3 weeks ago.

I'm not prepared to have habitual liars push their guff without getting called on it - it's best to have clarity on where people actually stand on the subject of this tax. Case in point:

And I pay all my other taxes but I won't pay this one.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79725605&postcount=4553

I am 100% tax compliant. 100%.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79828850&postcount=5329

Who said every non-paying household should have had a letter by now? They've said that they would start sending them out this from the beginning of this month, but it would be a few weeks for some - your local authority's timescales may differ.

BluntGuy

alastair wrote:

Who said every non-paying household should have had a letter by now? They've said that they would start sending them out this from the beginning of this month, but it would be a few weeks for some - your local authority's timescales may differ.

I hope the property charge is taken at source when introduced. The Household Charge has been an absolute mess.

alastair

BluntGuy wrote: »

I hope the property charge is taken at source when introduced. The Household Charge has been an absolute mess.

No argument there.

Ghandee

BluntGuy wrote: »

I hope the property charge is taken at source when introduced. The Household Charge has been an absolute mess.

Me too.



The unions will have a field day, and the country will grind to a halt.

alastair

Ghandee wrote: »

The unions will have a field day, and the country will grind to a halt.

Just like it did with the USC, eh?

kr7

Ghandee wrote: »

Me too.



The unions will have a field day, and the country will grind to a halt.

Isn't that the truth.

See yer man who defaulted on his tax in the UK is still at the name calling.

So bitter and angry.

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

Isn't that the truth.

See yer man who evaded his tax in the UK is still at the name calling.

So bitter and angry.

What's your position regarding paying your taxes today - or can't you keep track?

Still waiting for those solicitor's letters.

kr7

BluntGuy wrote: »

I hope the property charge is taken at source when introduced. The Household Charge has been an absolute mess.

How would you propose that would work then?

Ghandee

alastair wrote: »

Just like it did with the USC, eh?

Lol, non comparison Alastair.

Do not try and convince me there was half as much outrage and anger with the USC and proposed property tax imposed on an already financially strained population.

Like I said, trouble this year with the hundred euro charge will be nothing compared to what it will be like when that is hiked up to seven hundred.

It will get seven times more people, seven times angrier than this year.

kr7

See Ghandee, and I thought trolling was not allowed.
Can't help himself.

For anyone who wants to know, I am fully tax compliant, have my recently issued TCC to prove it.

Some here would like to think different and state deliberate lies about me.