Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

kr7

Not a lot of point posting here lads, alastair just goes over your posts and changes the words to suit his agenda.
The serial FYPer...

Alastair says NO, NEVER!!!

kr7

BluntGuy wrote: »

These "people" will ultimately comply. There is simply no choice.

There's always a choice.

The choice so far has been to cripple middle Ireland and cripple the local economy.

As long as the people making the choices are the ones with the vested interests we'll never recover.

Perhaps complete power should be ceded to Brussels for the time being.

Ghandee

BluntGuy wrote: »

These "people" will ultimately comply.

Sounds like something a German would have said in the 1940's.

Perhaps someone else on the gravy train who wants our taxes to fund an over inflated salary?

Btw, An en masse strike and subsequent loss of revenue and tax intake (even for a day) will hurt the govt a lot more than they'd care to admit.

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

Not a lot of point posting here lads, alastair just goes over your posts and changes the words to suit his agenda.
The serial FYPer...

Keep digging:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79828400&postcount=5319
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79797970&postcount=4993
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79780218&postcount=4861

alastair

Ghandee wrote: »

Sounds like something a German would have said in the 1940's.

Perhaps someone else on the gravy train who wants our taxes to fund an over inflated salary?

Btw, An en masse strike and subsequent loss of revenue and tax intake (even for a day) will hurt the govt a lot more than they'd care to admit.

You're back then - care to respond?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79842643&postcount=5513

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

Btw, An en masse strike and subsequent loss of revenue and tax intake (even for a day) will hurt the govt a lot more than they'd care to admit.

To think that there will be a general strike over the HHC is simply delusional.

kr7

alastair wrote: »

Keep digging:

FYP :D:D

Away up the road with ya!

kr7

dvpower wrote: »

To think that there will be a general strike over the HHC is simply delusional.

Not over the household charge, the proposed property tax is a different matter altogether.

BluntGuy

kr7 wrote: »

There's always a choice.

The choice so far has been to cripple middle Ireland and cripple the local economy.

As long as the people making the choices are the ones with the vested interests we'll never recover.

Perhaps complete power should be ceded to Brussels for the time being.

What is your solution for addressing the shortfall between spending and taxation?

Ghandee wrote: »

Sounds like something a German would have said in the 1940's.

Any particular German? Or are we going to allow this to turn into a pointless exchange of passive aggressive remarks?

Perhaps someone else on the gravy train who wants our taxes to fund an over inflated salary?

If you want to think that, feel free.

Btw, An en masse strike and subsequent loss of revenue and tax intake (even for a day) will hurt the govt a lot more than they'd care to admit.

Schools being closed, already stretched hospitals being stretched even further, appointments being postponed and services not running will hurt the cause of the unions a lot more than they'd care to admit - which is partially why I would strongly suspect there is very little appetite for large scale strikes.

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

Not over the household charge, the proposed property tax is a different matter altogether.

I'll go way out on a limb here too - I'm not seeing any national strike on the back of property taxation.
The campaign against property taxes can't even get a half decent attendance for it's national protest a year into the campaign.

Ghandee

alastair wrote: »

You're back then - care to respond?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79842643&postcount=5513

I didnt think you wanted/needed a response to this question.

You've lost me then - why would a council tax be utilised any differently than a property tax? You're against any local authority funding then?

When you answer it yourself, in this post.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79848635&postcount=5542

You're getting a service for your property tax too - continued local authority service. You're already paying towards local authority services regardless - but, just as with motor tax - it's an additional revenue stream that's required to ensure there's enough to cover the overhead. We've a shortfall of tax revenue at the moment - despite cutting public expenditure and bumping up other taxes - the only question therefore is where to tax and where to cut

I have a problem (as you say yourself) already paying for a local service, yet be expected to pay a property tax to fund local services, that you yourself say

You're already paying towards local authority services regardless

dvpower wrote: »

To think that there will be a general strike over the HHC is simply delusional.

No one thinks that a strike will take place against the one hundred euro sign up fee, but as already pointed out (which you have conveniently ignored) I suggested strikes could/will take place when the hundred turns into seven hundred.

Izzy Skint

dvpower wrote: »

The CAWHT people would never support your ^radical^ spending cut proposals.
I doubt you would find a single serving TD that would. I'm afraid you are an isolated island of sanity.

Or maybe not.

did I mention the td's or other groups ?....I do not even consider them...it is the ordinary hard pressed, rippedoff people of Ireland who would support this.

bgrizzley

alastair wrote: »

I'll go way out on a limb here too - I'm not seeing any national strike on the back of property taxation.
The campaign against property taxes can't even get a half decent attendance for it's national protest a year into the campaign.

i'd have to agree, the government would cave long before the strike would actually happen.

Bruthal

BluntGuy wrote: »

I don't support the notion that you can simply decide you don't want to pay a tax and then not pay it.

A poster on your side in here does support that notion though.

alastair

Ghandee wrote: »

I didnt think you wanted/needed a response to this question.



When you answer it yourself, in this post.

No - I wanted an answer to this question - which is quite different:

You've lost me then - why would a council tax be utilised any differently than a property tax? You're against any local authority funding then?

We've already covered the (fairly simple) principle of partial funding not being the same as complete funding. That you don't quite get it is a difficulty admittedly. Now - the questions above?

dvpower

Izzy Skint wrote: »

did I mention the td's or other groups ?....I do not even consider them...it is the ordinary hard pressed, rippedoff people of Ireland who would support this.

How in the world are your spending cuts going to be enacted if there is no support in the Dail for them?

kr7

alastair wrote: »

I'll go way out on a limb here too - I'm not seeing any national strike on the back of property taxation.
The campaign against property taxes can't even get a half decent attendance for it's national protest a year into the campaign.

Seriously, who's going to bother going out to protest over a €100 charge.
(feel free to fix that if you like)
All one has to do is not pay it.

Now, it's a completely different matter if they try to bring in a full blown tax that's going to put people already hovering just above the poverty line, well below that line.

You can only stretch people so far before they snap.

Izzy Skint

alastair wrote: »

Quality paranoid rant there. One request - the crazy-man formatting of most of your posts just highlights the lack of any substance to your position - but it's also ugly as sin. Could you tone it down for the sake of the visual environment?



That's not a shortfall in tax revenue? kaay.

why do you constantly reply with words such as 'paranoid, and 'whinging' ?....your replies are terrible...you will not even answer any questions I put to you:)

Alastair, worry less about the formatting of my posts, it is only for emphasis, worry more about the substance of my posts and the very valid points I am making.

if you suddenly find yourself spending more than you earn to support your home and family, then you have a spending issue, not an income problem ?....UNDERSTAND ?

alastair

robbie7730 wrote: »

A poster on your side in here does support that notion though.

Here's the thing though. I was quite prepared to pay the consequence of not paying the poll tax - which, unlike the bogus claims made against property taxation - was on a matter of actual social justice - a principle no-one has managed to articulate in relation to proiperty taxation. I didn't pretend it wasn't a tax, that I wasn't liable for it, or that I'd not have to pay up in the end of the day.

Those attitudes are pure delusion - and run right through the objectors here.

Ghandee

BluntGuy wrote: »

Schools being closed,

While we give 100,000 pensions away to folk who worked four years towards it.
http://www.thejournal.ie/kenny-says-he-will-defer-e100k-pension-lump-sum-until-he-leaves-politics-87736-Feb2011/

BluntGuy wrote: »

already stretched hospitals being stretched even further,

If the minister for health spent more time running his department, than sorting out his personal financial affairs, keeping his name out of stubbs gazette, and using the states jet as a taxi, improvements could be made here also.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/brendan-oconnor-well-another-fine-mess-for-our-volatiley-reilly-3175294.html

BluntGuy wrote: »

appointments being postponed and services not running will hurt the cause of the unions a lot more than they'd care to admit - which is partially why I would strongly suspect there is very little appetite for large scale strikes.

Once again, the 'appetite' will definitely come when the full blown property tax arises, which will push already struggling families over the edge.

As Alastair himself stated, we're already paying for Local services, a property tax to 'pay for local services' is blatantly asking us to buy the same thing twice at double the cost.

Here is one individual who will not be paying.

I'll pay a service charge, rates, whatever they want to call them, on the condition I get services provided.

Until that happens, they can whistle for it.

kr7

alastair wrote: »

Here's the thing though. I was quite prepared to pay the consequence of not paying the poll tax - which, unlike the bogus claims made against property taxation - was on a matter of actual social justice - a principle no-one has managed to articulate in relation to proiperty taxation. I didn't pretend it wasn't a tax, that I wasn't liable for it, or that I'd not have to pay up in the end of the day.

Those attitudes are pure delusion - and run right through the objectors here.

We have social justice in Ireland right now?

One section of society is expected to pay for the results of the recklessness of the 'elite' and the shortcomings of the lifelong welfare spongers.

Note the word 'lifelong' there please.

Social justice my arse, social injustice more like!

alastair

Izzy Skint wrote: »

why do you constantly reply with words such as 'paranoid, and 'whinging' ?....your replies are terrible...you will not even answer any questions I put to you:)

Alastair, worry less about the formatting of my posts, it is only for emphasis, worry more about the substance of my posts and the very valid points I am making.

if you suddenly find yourself spending more than you earn to support your home and family, then you have a spending issue, not an income problem ?....UNDERSTAND ?

Here's the thing - looper post formatting only speaks to the loopy presentation. Now - your 'substance' is problematic enough without having to endure the deranged visuals.

In answer to your analogy above - nope - you've both a spending and income problem. This state supported it's spending on the back of a property bubble revenue boom - now that revenue stream has gone, and we have a taxation shortfall. You can't attain a sustainable economy on the back of your (frankly ridiculous) spending cuts. 40% cuts in public sector salaries is just nutjob ranting - and nothing to do with a solution.

Bruthal

alastair wrote: »

Here's the thing though. I was quite prepared to pay the consequence of not paying the poll tax - which, unlike the bogus claims made against property taxation - was on a matter of actual social justice - a principle no-one has managed to articulate in relation to proiperty taxation. I didn't pretend it wasn't a tax, that I wasn't liable for it, or that I'd not have to pay up in the end of the day.

Those attitudes are pure delusion - and run right through the objectors here.

If you did not pretend you would not have to pay up at the end of the day, does this mean you paid it when it was first due?

kr7

alastair wrote: »

Here's the thing - looper post formatting only speaks to the loopy presentation. Now - your 'substance' is problematic enough without having to endure the deranged visuals.

In answer to your analogy above - nope - you've both a spending and income problem. This state supported it's spending on the back of a property bubble revenue boom - now that revenue stream has gone, and we have a taxation shortfall. You can't attain a sustainable economy on the back of your (frankly ridiculous) spending cuts. 40% cuts in public sector salaries is just nutjob ranting - and nothing to do with a solution.

Why can't spending on welfare and the public sector be brought back to 2005 levels?
Don't remember anyone dying on the streets then.

tayto lover

alastair wrote: »

Ah - so you're either subsidised by a member or freeloading - that'd work out pretty competitive compared to public courses alright.

Bulls*** !!! and not for the first time. I expected better from you tbh. Your posts are seriously in decline now.

Izzy Skint

dvpower wrote: »

How in the world are your spending cuts going to be enacted if there is no support in the Dail for them?

EXACTLY, we need the turkeys to vote for Christmas if we want to get out of the mess we are in, the chances of that happening in this country are very slim....you do want us to get out of this mess , don't you ?

tayto lover

alastair wrote: »

100 local authority courses in the country - and none near you? That's rather unfortunate, and implausible.

I live in North Co. Louth so you be so good as to tell me where my nearest course is then. Ball in your court.

kr7

dvpower wrote: »

How in the world are your spending cuts going to be enacted if there is no support in the Dail for them?

Quite similar to what I posted there in line 3 of my post no.5583.

Maybe we don't disagree about everything.;)

tayto lover

alastair wrote: »

Your point? Kurtz was a nutjob - prone to poorly considered rationalisation.

You have a lot in common with him.

Izzy Skint

kr7 wrote: »

Why can't spending on welfare and the public sector be brought back to 2005 levels?
Don't remember anyone dying on the streets then.

KR7, that is the point I have been trying to make to him, but he refuses to comment on the issue, it is the root of our problem...obviously he does not want this to happen....I wonder why ?