Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

dvpower

jasonb wrote: »

Just a quick question. I didn't receive the 1st 'warning' letter, and now there's talk on Aertel of 2nd letters going out and the threat of Legal Proceedings. Did anyone else not get the 1st warning letter? Thanks...

J.

There was something over 100,000 first letters sent out - so they aren't targeting everyone with the first letter, just second home owners / landlords. I presume that they will target the same people with the next set of letters and I guess they will then pursue these people through the courts, so if you're a common or garden home owner, they're probably not going to target you - yet.

This is a good strategy I think. The CAHWT and the Socialist party have said that they will organise mass protests whenever people are brought to court.
I look forward to seeing them standing shoulder to shoulder with landlord owners of multiple properties - it'll be fcuking hilarious.:pac:

bgrizzley

donalg1 wrote: »

Throwing it down holes like providing the majority of the population with free water to their homes. Sure no harm anyway they will be charging for this soon enough, and instead of maybe charging each household enough to cover the costs of getting the water to the taps they will add a little extra on to cover the cost of running the other departments too, call it a LA Subsidy or something, be grand sure.

And you havent really stopped the waste by not paying the HHC so havent really done anything apart from ensuring the LA's will continue to lose money, thereby meaning the services they do currently provide will have to be cut some more.

dunno much about the water situation, like many others in the country i provide my own service there, (however i dont mind my income tax subsidising others who recieve it, (though id prefer if the schemes were run a bit better)). have to say though, :eek: it frightens me to see the ammount of wastage of clean water especially since when drilling my own well, installing my own purification system i can see the exact cost of that service i provide to myself.;)


im quite happy the LAs will continue to lose money, less money=less waste:D

donalg1

bgrizzley wrote: »

dunno much about the water situation, like many others in the country i provide my own service there, (however i dont mind my income tax subsidising others who recieve it, (though id prefer if the schemes were run a bit better)). have to say though, :eek: it frightens me to see the ammount of wastage of clean water especially since when drilling my own well, installing my own purification system i can see the exact cost of that service i provide to myself.;)


im quite happy the LAs will continue to lose money, less money=less waste:D

less money = less service,

And by wastage of clean water do you mean people wasting water like its a never ending resource because this annoys me no end too and I cant wait for people to pay for the water they use.

bgrizzley

dvpower wrote: »

This is a good strategy I think. The CAHWT and the Socialist party have said that they will organise mass protests whenever people are brought to court.
I look forward to seeing them standing shoulder to shoulder with landlord owners of multiple properties - it'll be fcuking hilarious.:pac:

that would be funny, but iirc the guy on the radio link you provided said something about standing more with homeowners rather than landlords so maybe they are distancing themselves from that one.

personally, i think they should stand by the landlords. in doing so, they would be defending the asset-less renters who will really be bearing the burden of this tax:(

dvpower

bgrizzley wrote: »

personally, i think they should stand by the landlords. in doing so, they would be defending the asset-less renters who will really be bearing the burden of this tax:(

Only the Socialist Party of Ireland could be against a property tax but for trickle down economics. :eek:

bgrizzley

dvpower wrote: »

Only the Socialist Party of Ireland could be against a property tax but for trickle down economics. :eek:

well, rightly, they are against a property tax for ordinary people, but im sure they are pro tax on landlords and second homes.

As a matter of interest, how would you feel if FG/Labour froze rents before the introduction of the tax(just allowing for inflation)? That would seem fair, then the wealth tax would actually hit those were benefiting from their assets and not renters?

dvpower

bgrizzley wrote: »

well, rightly, they are against a property tax for ordinary people, but im sure they are pro tax on landlords and second homes.

I don't see anything on either the Socialist party website or the CAHWT site where they say they are for property tax for landlords / second homes.

bgrizzley wrote: »

As a matter of interest, how would you feel if FG/Labour froze rents before the introduction of the tax(just allowing for inflation)? That would seem fair, then the wealth tax would actually hit those were benefiting from their assets and not renters?

Froze rents on what - other people's private property? No thanks.

bgrizzley

dvpower wrote: »

Froze rents on what - other people's private property? No thanks.

But they are taxing peoples private property, what the difference in telling people what rent they can charge on their private property?

And it has the added benefit of being fairer. the person who benefits and gets wealth from the asset would bear the tax rather than the person who didnt own it(the renter).

Am Chile

dvpower wrote: »

There was something over 100,000 first letters sent out - so they aren't targeting everyone with the first letter, just second home owners / landlords. I presume that they will target the same people with the next set of letters and I guess they will then pursue these people through the courts, so if you're a common or garden home owner, they're probably not going to target you - yet.

This is a good strategy I think. The CAHWT and the Socialist party have said that they will organise mass protests whenever people are brought to court.
I look forward to seeing them standing shoulder to shoulder with landlord owners of multiple properties - it'll be fcuking hilarious.:pac:

Excempt DV I can,t recall on the record the cahwt arguing that they were against a tax on Investment properties landlords use to rent out to people for profit-what I can recall is the cahwt arguing they were against a tax on the family home- if you can find evidence they are against a tax on investment properties please post a link Id like to read it.

dvpower

bgrizzley wrote: »

But they are taxing peoples private property, what the difference in telling people what rent they can charge on their private property?

Seriously? You want the government to start implementing price controls on private landlords.
I've heard some crazy proposals on here, but that one takes the biscuit.

Would we have a team of government inspectors setting rental prices or just freeze them on a certain date?
What if the landlord upgraded the property - would a government inspector come around and reset the rent? Or if the landlord wanted to drop the price - would he be allowed?

Would the landlord have to pay for the government rent price inspectors, or could he pass this on to the tenant?

dvpower

Am Chile wrote: »

Excempt DV I can,t recall on the record the cahwt arguing that they were against a tax on Investment properties landlords use to rent out to people for profit-what I can recall is the cahwt arguing they were against a tax on the family home- if you can find evidence they are against a tax on investment properties please post a link Id like to read it.

cahwt wrote:

Q. How did they get my name ?
A. The authorities are using data from the NPPR (if you own a second home) or from ESB or Dept of Social Protection. But none of this proves you are the homeowner.


Q. What will the CAHWT do about court cases?
A. No-one will go to court alone.

So, there you have it - the CAHWT are standing with the landlords.

Cantona's Collars

dvpower wrote: »

So, there you have it - the CAHWT are standing with the landlords.

No,the post you quoted just gives a list of the sources that will be used to track down people,you tried to twist it to prove a point but failed miserably.

bgrizzley

dvpower wrote: »

Seriously? You want the government to start implementing price controls on private landlords.
I've heard some crazy proposals on here, but that one takes the biscuit.

Would we have a team of government inspectors setting rental prices or just freeze them on a certain date?
What if the landlord upgraded the property - would a government inspector come around and reset the rent? Or if the landlord wanted to drop the price - would he be allowed?

Would the landlord have to pay for the government rent price inspectors, or could he pass this on to the tenant?

Self assessment should suffice, it does for us ordinary folk and ive no reason to doubt landlords' honesty.

Anyway, i'm just pointing out the inequity of a wealth tax that does'nt actually tax the beneficiary of the wealth, and providing a solution as to how it could be corrected.
why should the asset-less renters pay the landlords property tax for him while the landlord reaps the rewards?
you are the guys pointing out that owning houses makes wealth all the time(and renters definitely dont own the landlords house)
fair is fair:D

bgrizzley

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent_control

wiki says 40 countries implement rent control. probably the same countries that are so fond of property tax...

dvpower

zerks wrote: »

No,the post you quoted just gives a list of the sources that will be used to track down people,you tried to twist it to prove a point but failed miserably.

It specifically listed the NPPR - a database solely consisting of landlords and second home owners.
Its good to see that the CAHWT are standing by the downtrodden sections of society who own multiple properties.:pac:

dvpower

bgrizzley wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent_control

wiki says 40 countries implement rent control. probably the same countries that are so fond of property tax...

Out of, what, nearly 200 countries in the world, so that's only about 20% of countries in the world have rent control of some form or another.

And how many have a rent freeze, as you proposed?

dvpower

bgrizzley wrote: »

Self assessment should suffice, it does for us ordinary folk and ive no reason to doubt landlords' honesty.

So, in summary, you want a rent freeze, but with landlords allowed to change rents if they want. Gotcha!

MaxSteele

Looks like they've started legal proceedings anyway

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0816/household-charge-legal-action.html

bgrizzley

dvpower wrote: »

So, in summary, you want a rent freeze, but with landlords allowed to change rents if they want. Gotcha!

I allowed for inflation if you remember. Jaysus Dv, you really don't like the idea of landlords paying this tax themselves. What's up with that?

Ghandee

MaxSteele wrote: »

Looks like they've started legal proceedings anyway

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0816/household-charge-legal-action.html

No, it looks like they're threatening to start legal proceedings on a couple of months lol....

Legal action will be taken against homeowners who have failed to pay the Household Charge within a number of months, according to the Local Government Management Agency.

More sabre rattling and empty threats.


And what's this?

Campaigners against the charge say they will provide legal advice and support for anyone taken to court for non-payment.

The State body responsible for collecting the charge said those who have not paid are currently receiving a second warning letter.

Second letter?

Who on boards.ie got a first letter yet?


Its a miserable failure for the govt.

Threatening and scare tactics seems to be the course they seem to be sticking to unfortunately.

Bullseye1

You would be better off spending your €150 in the local economy or make a donation of €150 to your local library than giving it to those wasters. Those warning letters must be making their way to the ghost estates.

Bruthal

darkhorse wrote: »

Would you people wake up to reality. One person saying that I and people like me own our house, with thousands of us in absolute dire straits financially and the govt. wanting more from us that we absolutly don't have. Another telling me that I am generating income from my house, when, according to professionals, I'm already in negative equity to the tune of €140k. This is really unbelievable speak, coming from mature people.:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:. Is this enough emoticons for ye.

Im only telling you that you are the legal owner of the house.

Am Chile

The threats have gotten even better- they re now even threatening to switch off street lights.

McSweeney: Pay charge or street lights could be turned off



Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 12:52 PM






Street lights may need to be switched off and community-run sports clubs
will no longer exist if people don't comply with the household charge.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/mcsweeney-pay-charge-or-street-lights-could-be-turned-off-563182.html

Izzy Skint

donalg1 wrote: »

less money = less service,

And by wastage of clean water do you mean people wasting water like its a never ending resource because this annoys me no end too and I cant wait for people to pay for the water they use.

as long as EVERYONE pays which includes LA tenants ?....will that happen ?....and if it does, should they not also pay for all the "other" services the hhc is supposed to be going towards ?

Ghandee

I don't think its twigged yet guys.

These clown's are getting so desperate now with their threats, instead of putting the fear intopeople they're just putting the giggles in to them.


Its became quite comical at this stage lol

Izzy Skint

the govt. are getting desperate, the threats are coming thick and fast, 2013 is fast approaching !!....not a hope in hell they will have this sorted by January 2013. They have "expert" groups set up looking at everything from how to calculate the tax, how to collect it, legal implications etc...we are 4 months away from the start of the property tax and they have not even decided on how to calculate it !!!!!.....only in Ireland....well done our hard working efficient civil servants......you are all worth every penny of your excessive salary :):)
don't believe the govt. lies and threats.... they know they can not enforce this and if they did find a way to do it, it will take years.

can somebody here explain to me how a house is an asset?..... it costs me thousands, post tax ! to pay for and maintain every year....if anything I should be receiving a tax credit for providing my own home.....even if your home is not in negative equity it is still not an asset until you actually sell it and have the cash in the bank, until you sell your home it remains just a place to live......so having a place for you and your family to live in is now considered an asset in Ireland....great country we have here , long live equality !!

dvpower

Izzy Skint wrote: »

can somebody here explain to me how a house is an asset?.....

Enough with this please.
It is an asset.

Definition of 'Asset'
1. A resource with economic value that an individual, corporation or country owns or controls with the expectation that it will provide future benefit.

2. A balance sheet item representing what a firm owns.

Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/asset.asp#ixzz23jh7oY9l

Ghandee

Am Chile wrote: »

The threats have gotten even better- they re now even threatening to switch off street lights.




http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/mcsweeney-pay-charge-or-street-lights-could-be-turned-off-563182.html

Street lights may need to be switched off and community-run sports clubs will no longer exist if people don't comply with the household charge.

Am i missing something?

Would community run not mean community paid for?

lugha

Izzy Skint wrote: »

so having a place for you and your family to live in is now considered an asset in Ireland....great country we have here , long live equality !!

Only thing for it Izzy is to move to a civilized country that does not have such backward notions about property tax! :pac: Send us a postcard will ya?

BTW: How if at all, would you tax the super rich, who are wealthy by virtue of extensive property, if no tax should be levied until they come to sell some of their property?

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

Am i missing something?

Would community run not mean community paid for?

Yet another Local Authority funded service you didn't know you were getting.