Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

Hijpo

dvpower wrote: »

Yep. They need to do a lot more.

So, in summary.
1. Public sector and government big wigs need to implement more radical change.

yes, like stopping the wasting of money on needless items and slashing salaries, expenses and tax exemptions to coincide with the population and size of the country. This, for example, is totally unacceptable and is an insult to anyone paying tax in this country while they still look for more taxes from you

Izzy Skint wrote: »

according to wikipedia, David Cameron, the British prime minister, leader of 60 million people, earns £142,000 a year which today equates to €182,000......meanwhile, in Ireland, Dublin City manager (John Tierney) earns €189,301 !!!! .......and Inda who is leader to 4.5m people earns €200,000...

dvpower wrote: »

2. People need to pay their lawful taxes and charges.

If you work to own a home:

If you work you pay 2 kinds of tax and 1 charge. To get to work i drive a car, theres a tax on that. To make the car run i have to put petrol in it, theres tax on that. I need to insure my car, theres a levy on that. To own a home you need a mortgage, theres levy on that. to get a mortgage you need life insurance, theres a levy on that. You need house insurance, theres a levy on that. Your house might have gas, theres two taxes on your gas bill, you'll need electricity, theres two taxes on that bill. To maintain my house i purchase all maintenance materials myself and carry out the work if i can, myself. So im paying more tax to the government for all the supplies and doing the work myself with no impact on the LA. I have a tv, im charged to have a licence for that. I pay money to the residents association to have my housing estate maintained, the LA dont do it.

Thats off the top of my head, god knows what else there making money on.

Cantona's Collars

Heroditas wrote: »

People haven't been "let go". They've taken voluntary redundancy or have retired.
The rest were contract workers who didn't have them extended.


As for the "pay cut" bit....

True,there was an incentive for taking early retirement in the PS. Retire early this year & get a higher pension.

A lot of contract workers in councils who simply came to the end of their terms,these are being replaced by guys on CE schemes who get an extra few quid on top of their dole.Even hospitals are using CE workers now.

No actual staff cuts,the LA's,Health Boards are just sticking to the embargo on hiring staff so those retiring etc. aren't replaced (unless it's by FAS workers)

Here's an example: http://jobseeker.fas.ie/Default.aspx?q=B+fomdowzS8kaDnSlUDk1zaMUPiFEeNrNWjviinu490thmC2C0u+DEb1W7dg8fs/6eoLrh21rZiWTKappnrtD+DT36J9ogx1bN/rvR0Epl31skEsstoUCkJNXgVKAHr4ss4eXNqRnDNgsTMn3Cs1kPXxgHoukTwxe10OYYR6SCyZC0Su2nIYNiUck7Lp2HwA4NPK62F8Ejdn96vuCEjXW4NO/NQhIW0suvu3iAItCcjSoT6NopgX5Ymj1W60BTLQu6TIpt6u03bCkA25muNn3svq7ndO4/DYUTaif0eT3khIg5XLFyuuY0VSeD1rAYcjrY79AyT4vn50kahpjIpQoZ6WDObOoqzZ4vhwg2DbLEfMQKL8hmUSp+c2YFOA30CEjcwUyAaMCBXfeytvdlHpX5OigIKfCDdIDtYzWn/YxrW1ax0hFB2zbNoSM8CPb8GEUitBNqSb5KKNM5ynRo8gfw==

lugha

ScumLord wrote: »

that doesn't make any sense. You either use your house to generate revenue or you don't.

Yes. And if you are your own tenant you have notional income exactly equivalent to what you would receive in rent. Perhaps you are quibbling with referring to it as revenue generation, and would prefer to include the word notional, but the net effect on your wallet is the same. You earn by virtue of not having to spend.

ScumLord wrote: »

It's the same kind of false logic that you hear companies use where they expect to make a certain amount of money and when they don't they see that as someone taking that money away from them.

Don’t follow at all?

ScumLord wrote: »

Just because it's possible to make money out of something doesn't mean you automatically have that money. Just like if I have a product for sale and put a price on it, it doesn't mean I have that money just by having the product in my possession. I have the opportunity to make money if I decide to sell and can find someone to buy.

I don’t think your analogy, which is about selling rather than renting, is apt. So let’s say your business involves leasing cars. Unless you were fortunate enough to have all your cars leased on a regular basis you would have the benefit of having a personal car by taking one from the pool (tax & insurance etc. complications aside) but you would not have to pay to purchase a personal car.

I do not know if it is the case in car rental companies but certainly in general, if your company provides you with a car it WILL be seen by the revenue as notional income as you will be liable for BIK tax on it.

Hijpo

lugha wrote: »

Yes. And if you are your own tenant you have notional income exactly equivalent to what you would receive in rent. Perhaps you are quibbling with referring to it as revenue generation, and would prefer to include the word notional, but the net effect on your wallet is the same. You earn by virtue of not having to spend.



Don’t follow at all?



I don’t think your analogy, which is about selling rather than renting, is apt. So let’s say your business involves leasing cars. Unless you were fortunate enough to have all your cars leased on a regular basis you would have the benefit of having a personal car by taking one from the pool (tax & insurance etc. complications aside) but you would not have to pay to purchase a personal car.

I do not know if it is the case in car rental companies but certainly in general, if your company provides you with a car it WILL be seen by the revenue as notional income as you will be liable for BIK tax on it.

I dont think you or the government seem to understand that we are not business people, we are SINGLE home owners. Already working and paying there taxes and levies to live in there own home and provide for themselfs and there family. They didnt buy there home to live in a tent so they can rent out the house. People owning a single house stand to make nothing on there house and probably have no bloody intention of doing so.

jesus christ like, we arnt all greedy bastards.

Heroditas

dvpower wrote: »

Redundancy and contract termination = 'let go.'

Nobody forced them to go, they were given an added incentive to leave.

Half of the rest of them are still sitting on their arses. They could cut more of them and we still wouldn't notice a drop in services.

ScumLord

lugha wrote: »

Yes. And if you are your own tenant you have notional income exactly equivalent to what you would receive in rent. Perhaps you are quibbling with referring to it as revenue generation, and would prefer to include the word notional, but the net effect on your wallet is the same. You earn by virtue of not having to spend.

Unless you've bought the house outright you are paying for it in mortgage.

It's still accounting mumbo jumbo that doesn't really make sense to a normal person. If I've bought my house outright I've essentially bought a product and it's mine. Saying I'm effectively earning money because I'm not paying a lease is just accounting nonsense.

lugha

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Croke Park is due to expire in 2014. If the economy stays the way it is, it will no doubt be followed by another agreement that further reduces the public sector pay bill.

Given the fact that it has already resulted in cutbacks, is it really wise to tear up the agreement before it expires and find ourselves with widespread industrial action? Do we think public sector workers are going to be more or less likely to accept further cuts if we tear up Croke Park? Are we trying to fix the public finances or pursue a vendetta?

Unwise I think might be putting it mildly! It would amount to monumental folly. CP may have been (well, was!) over-generous but that was somewhat inevitable given that it was negotiated by a lame duck government. But as you point out, and contrary to what some imply, it has delivered. Indeed this has been acknowledged by the Troika.

Its successor will have to deliver considerably much more of course. Tearing up the agreement at this stage with put paid to any notion that future deal could be negotiated and wide spread industrial unrest would be all but inevitable. I get the distinct impression from some that this is almost what they want! That they are not happy just with savings from the PS bill if they are negotiated, the PS have to be pissed off about it or it doesn’t count!

Of course a little thought would expose the flaws in this kind of thinking. Perhaps a small number of embittered private sector workers might take delight in the unions been put in their place and set off to work with a spring in his step. Of course they may not be able to go to work because they have to baby sit due to the teacher strike, or they may not be able to get to work due to the public transport strike or their work place may not be operational because electricity workers are out on strike!

Be careful what you wish for!

Cesium Clock

lugha wrote: »

Some people’s heads seem to hurt if they think of this in terms of being your own tenant, but in a sense that it what you are. You don’t get rent as cash but you get the benefit of it as you are do not need to pay out money to rent accommodation.

and if your house / asset is in negative equity and it is not generating a stream of income, is this loss making house / asset eligible for a tax refund ?

darkhorse

lugha wrote: »

Yes. And if you are your own tenant you have notional income exactly equivalent to what you would receive in rent. Perhaps you are quibbling with referring to it as revenue generation, and would prefer to include the word notional, but the net effect on your wallet is the same. You earn by virtue of not having to spend.



Don’t follow at all?



I don’t think your analogy, which is about selling rather than renting, is apt. So let’s say your business involves leasing cars. Unless you were fortunate enough to have all your cars leased on a regular basis you would have the benefit of having a personal car by taking one from the pool (tax & insurance etc. complications aside) but you would not have to pay to purchase a personal car.

I do not know if it is the case in car rental companies but certainly in general, if your company provides you with a car it WILL be seen by the revenue as notional income as you will be liable for BIK tax on it.

Could you tell me which bank I can lodge a notional income into, cause my bank definitely does'nt do notional.

donalg1

Cesium Clock wrote: »

and if your house / asset is in negative equity and it is not generating a stream of income, is this loss making house / asset eligible for a tax refund ?

Nah just a property tax / household charge.

Am Chile

Survey on Newstalk asking would people pay the household tax if streetlights were to be turned off-please a leave a comment and take part in todays survey.

http://www.newstalk.ie/2012/about/make-it-work/question-would-switching-off-street-lights-make-you-pay-the-house-tax/

Cesium Clock

Am Chile wrote: »

Survey on Newstalk asking would people pay the household tax if streetlights were to be turned off-please a leave a comment and take part in todays survey.

http://www.newstalk.ie/2012/about/make-it-work/question-would-switching-off-street-lights-make-you-pay-the-house-tax/

Turn them off, close the parks, shut the libraries , make the workers redundant,
Get rid of the managers of above, and the shortfall will sorted,

dvpower

Cesium Clock wrote: »

Turn them off, close the parks, shut the libraries , make the workers redundant,
Get rid of the managers of above, and the shortfall will sorted,

Wow. Some people think that the answer to our problems is to close our public parks. :eek:

bgrizzley

dvpower wrote: »

Wow. Some people think that the answer to our problems is to close our public parks. :eek:

Well it's one of those elusive services we hear about.
I say close em, I live in one, the countryside, and it's perfectly maintained without any help from the LA

dvpower

bgrizzley wrote: »

Well it's one of those elusive services we hear about.
I say close em, I live in one, the countryside, and it's perfectly maintained without any help from the LA

Which ones should close first - the Phoenix Park? - St. Stephen's Green? - Killarney National Park?

You guys are gas altogehter.
:pac:

golden lane

irish public service workers including members of the dail.....get paid more than their european counterparts.....because they do a better job......

Am Chile

Good interview and article on newstalk the council manager of Cork County Council Martin Riordan-when asked about his salary of over €162, 000 paid more money then the Spanish prime minister asking people to pay the household tax-yet they want cuts from to come from the bottom instead of cuts from the top.

http://www.newstalk.ie/2012/news/warning-local-services-will-be-cut-if-household-charge-not-paid/

gerryo777

dvpower wrote: »

Wow. Some people think that the answer to our problems is to close our public parks. :eek:

Turn the lights off and close the country down, it's the only answer.

Don't touch the CPA though, don't cut county managers who earn more than most international heads of state, don't cut social welfare, don't stop the absolute waste of resources in the HSE, don't tax people who earn more than €100k any more, keep the status quo and don't rock the PS/CS boat.

Amateurish politicians running an amateurish system.

Beyond a joke, Ireland 2012.

gerryo777

golden lane wrote: »

irish public service workers including members of the dail.....get paid more than their european counterparts.....because they do a better job......

God forbid that a bit of realism ever hits the Irish overpaid and pampered PS that the rest of us are forced to pay for.

golden lane

gerryo777 wrote: »

Turn the lights off and close the country down, it's the only answer.

Don't touch the CPA though, don't cut county managers who earn more than most international heads of state, don't cut social welfare, don't stop the absolute waste of resources in the HSE, don't tax people who earn more than €100k any more, keep the status quo and don't rock the PS/CS boat.

Amateurish politicians running an amateurish system.

Beyond a joke, Ireland 2012.

you have noticed then.......the people who are paid to do that....seem to be oblivious to all realism....

Cesium Clock

dvpower wrote: »

Wow. Some people think that the answer to our problems is to close our public parks. :eek:

Yes close them, in this world of "assets" that a lot of people can not afford to keep, a feckin park is not a high priority.

dvpower

Cesium Clock wrote: »

Yes close them, in this world of "assets" that a lot of people can not afford to keep, a feckin park is not a high priority.

You're actually serious!! Of all the crazy suggestions I heard, this is by far the most crazy.
Go to the top of the class.:P

gerryo777

Cesium Clock wrote: »

Yes close them, in this world of "assets" that a lot of people can not afford to keep, a feckin park is not a high priority.

Well, and as we've been told many times by the pro-taxers, if someone can't afford to keep an asset they should dispose of it.

It's the only way, a logical extension of the pro-taxers mindset.

Cesium Clock

dvpower wrote: »

You're actually serious!! Of all the crazy suggestions I heard, this is by far the most crazy.
Go to the top of the class.:P

If you can't afford the asset , dispose of it,

Cesium Clock

dvpower wrote: »

You're actually serious!! Of all the crazy suggestions I heard, this is by far the most crazy.
Go to the top of the class.:P

Maybe there should be a charge to use the park, you are all for the HHC a charge to use ones own asset / residence,

Then those who avail of the parks can pay for privilege,

Thus lessening the burden on normal home owners who need / have a right to shelter for their families,

As for crazy, ?

you want other citizens to be taxed to the hilt so you can walk through a park under street lighting to the library

dvpower

Cesium Clock wrote: »

Maybe there should be a charge to use the park, you are all for the HHC a charge to use ones own asset / residence,

Then those who avail of the parks can pay for privilege,

You want government ticket inspectors installed at the gates of St. Stephen Green.

You are the gift that keeps giving.:pac:

Cesium Clock

dvpower wrote: »

You want government ticket inspectors installed at the gates of St. Stephen Green.

You are the gift that keeps giving.:pac:

Where?
Not all of us live in the metropolis ,

gerryo777

dvpower wrote: »

You want government ticket inspectors installed at the gates of St. Stephen Green.

You are the gift that keeps giving.:pac:

Na, sell St. Stephen's green, we can't afford it.

Sell it, the country's broke and as you say, if we can't afford something we should sell it and rent, that way someone else can pay for the upkeep.

Cesium Clock

dvpower wrote: »

You want government ticket inspectors installed at the gates of St. Stephen Green.

You are the gift that keeps giving.:pac:

Noonan sold it at the bilderberg / nazi meeting,

darkhorse

dvpower wrote: »

You want government ticket inspectors installed at the gates of St. Stephen Green.

Well, as a matter of fact, YEAH, if its good enough for me to pay an extra tax on our family home, which I am already paying a hefty mortgage on.:mad::mad: