Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

dxhound2005

Ghandee wrote: »

Another bunch of people who think its a silly idea.......

Not the people we elected to govern though. They are an interest group looking after themselves.

Bullseye1

Houses in Dublin and city centres will be generally more valuable than rural or commuter towns and villages. But we haven't seen the full proposal so it's premature to discuss fully. This government is incapable of good PR. They have now created speculation on how the tax will be assessed. They have had long enough to formulate a proposal I cannot see why they have to wait until the budget to announce their proposal.

darkhorse

Ghandee wrote: »

What do the good people of the north get when they pay for their rates though?





http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/information-and-services/property-and-housing/rates/your-rate-bill/what-do-rates-pay-for.htm


We are being told that a property tax placed on our homes is also to pay for such services, however.....

We are still paying seperately (not even a price reduction ffs) on our Refuse collection, GP fees, Motor tax, Education fees and so on and so forth.

Ok, so we'll (for arguments sake) say that rates are a property tax.
They're a property tax that gets you services though, once its paid you'll not have to shell out for anything ecxtra.

Can you compare what we're being offered to what they are in the North?

Also, why could the irish govt. not call the new tax, when it comes in, rates and include the other services that are included in NI rates, instead of calling it a property tax. Maybe that could have been more palatable.

dxhound2005

Cesium Clock wrote: »

Since when was the HHC a tax?

And if it is a tax why have the revenue not mentioned it.

The Revenue Commissioners are named in the legislation as being authorised to share and exchange data to facilitate the enforcement of the law.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2011/a3611.pdf

local authority shall, at such intervals as the Revenue
Commissioners may specify, provide the Revenue Commissioners
with such information obtained by the local
authority pursuant to this Act, including tax reference
numbers, as the Revenue Commissioners may reasonably
require for the purpose of enabling them to perform their
functions under a specified enactment

Ghandee

The more people reading these threads and actually getting the message that failing to register for this sham is the only way of defeating it the better as far as I'm concerned.

We've already seem the proof in the pudding.

They don't know how many are even liable.
They don't know who to send the 'reminder' letters to, so far only purple with multiple properties who self registered them got letters.
They don't know how they're going to decide who pays what next year
They don't know how they're going to collect it (collecting at source will cause un foretold hard ship.

They've made a right pigs ear of this from the start, made a mockery of themselves into the bargain.

Add to this, the man they get to front the whole operation has not/refuses to pay for services for his own luxury penthouse in the Algarve :pac:

Roll on the local elections, let's see them first nails in the FG coffin.

I need no further proof that this crowd couldn't run a bath, never mind a bankrupt country.

FG/LAB need you to register your property so they can later rape your back account with furore taxes and madeup charges, all to go to anonymous bondholders in Euro land.

DON'T REGISTER, DON'T PAY!

dvpower

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Are you serious?

According to the Independent the proposed tax will be based on value. Who's value? Do you think they are going to leave it up to the individual to decide the value of their house or will they insist that an independent valuation is carried out by an auctioneer/valuer?

Yes. Of course it will be by self assesment.

Bullseye1

darkhorse wrote: »

Also, why could the irish govt. not call the new tax, when it comes in, rates and include the other services that are included in NI rates, instead of calling it a property tax. Maybe that could have been more palatable.

But they don't actually want to provide anything new just pay for what they already provide which is very little anyway. Water will be charged separately and we are already responsible for our own waste collection. We will get nothin new for this money.

Cesium Clock

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The Revenue Commissioners are named in the legislation as being authorised to share and exchange data to facilitate the enforcement of the law.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2011/a3611.pdf

local authority shall, at such intervals as the Revenue
Commissioners may specify, provide the Revenue Commissioners
with such information obtained by the local
authority pursuant to this Act, including tax reference
numbers, as the Revenue Commissioners may reasonably
require for the purpose of enabling them to perform their
functions under a specified enactment

That doesn't make it a tax,

Bullseye1

dvpower wrote: »

Yes. Of course it will be by self assesment.

/\/\ Speculation.

dxhound2005

Ghandee wrote: »

The more people reading these threads and actually getting the message that failing to register for this sham is the only way of defeating it.

We've already seem the proof in the pudding.

They don't know how many are even liable.
They don't know who to send the 'reminder' letters to, so far only purple with multiple properties who self registered them got letters.
They don't know how they're going to decide who pays what next year
They don't know how they're going to collect it (collecting at source will cause un foretold hard ship.

They've made a right pigs ear of this from the start, made a mockery of themselves into the bargain.

Add to this, the man they get to front the whole operation has not/refuses to pay for services for his own luxury penthouse in the Algarve :pac:

Roll on the local elections, let's see them first nails in the FG coffin.

I need no further proof that this crowd couldn't run a bath, never mind a bankrupt country.

Meanwhile the crowd running things in the North and who might replace FG in government here have brought 47,000 people to court this year for not paying their property tax there.

dvpower

Cesium Clock wrote: »

56% payment in Roscommon 14,000 households paid,

Cuts of 1.7 million

Explain Why

Or is it punishment

Its pretty straightforward. They didn't manage to collect enough so the budget had to be cut.

What needs explaining?
What punishment?

Chips Lovell

The government doesn't know how many people are meant to file income tax returns either, but that hasn't proven to be a disaster.

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Meanwhile the crowd running things in the North and who might replace FG in government here have brought 47,000 people to court this year for not paying their property tax there.

The DUP governing southern Ireland?
I'm all for a united Ireland Dx, but not if it means the orangemen invading the 26 counties.

(you realise they're the front runners in stormont, your bound to, I've pointed that fact out to you repeatedly on this thread)

Cesium Clock

dvpower wrote: »

Its pretty straightforward. They didn't manage to collect enough so the budget had to be cut.

What needs explaining?
What punishment?

The cut is far larger than the non payment

dvpower

Bullseye1 wrote: »

/\/\ Speculation.

Can you point to any of the submissions that were made that recommended that properties be independently valued?

It'll be self assesment with valuations being matched to the new house prices database and independant valuations only when the Revenue dispute the self assesment valuation.

dxhound2005

Ghandee wrote: »

The DUP governing southern Ireland?
I'm all for a united Ireland Dx, but not if it means the orangemen invading the 26 counties.

(you realise they're the front runners in stormont, your bound to, I've pointed that fact out to you repeatedly on this thread)

The DUP do not put themselves forward for election here, Sinn Fein do. What have Sinn Fein done to try to abolish the property tax in the North? You can only judge people by their actions.

If the Revenue Commissioners are given the responsibility of collecting the property tax (that is IF) I presume this would mean people who did not pay could not get a tax clearance cert. I think you need one of those to stand for the Dail so I wonder what will Mary Lou do if she hasn't quietly paid her HHC already.

Ghandee

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

The government doesn't know how many people are meant to file income tax returns either, but that hasn't proven to be a disaster.

Most likely because regardless of what some of you think, the majority of folk on this thread from the no side accept and agree that taxes need to be paid.

A tax on an income is the norm, and is acceptable to most.
A tax on the roof over your head, where the threat of bankruptcy and forced sale of property to pay whatever sum the government decide they feel like charging in the future is not.

Don't register folks.

Take no further part in bailing out bondholders.

Cesium Clock

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The DUP do not put themselves forward for election here, Sinn Fein do. What have Sinn Fein done to try to abolish the property tax in the North? You can only judge people by their actions.

If the Revenue Commissioners are given the responsibility of collecting the property tax (that is IF) I presume this would mean people who did not pay could not get a tax clearance cert. I think you need one of those to stand for the Dail so I wonder what will Mary Lou do if she hasn't quietly paid her HHC already.

No need to abolish the propery charge in the north, you get services for it,

dxhound2005

Ghandee wrote: »

Most likely because regardless of what some of you think, the majority of folk on this thread from the no side accept and agree that taxes need to be paid.

A tax on an income is the norm, and is acceptable to most.
A tax on the roof over your head, where the threat of bankruptcy and forced sale of property to pay whatever sum the government decide they feel like charging in the future is not.

Don't register folks.

Take no further part in bailing out bondholders.

If you are the owner of a private house think long and hard before taking up this invitation to break the law. The people who are exhorting you to do so will not be around to support you when you have to face the consequences of following their advice.

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The DUP do not put themselves forward for election here, Sinn Fein do. What have Sinn Fein done to try to abolish the property tax in the North? You can only judge people by their actions.

If the Revenue Commissioners are given the responsibility of collecting the property tax (that is IF) I presume this would mean people who did not pay could not get a tax clearance cert. I think you need one of those to stand for the Dail so I wonder what will Mary Lou do if she hasn't quietly paid her HHC already.

Mary Lou its probably doing what the half of the country are doing.
Bidding their time..........

This tax will be abolished by the next govt.

Incidentally, their its currently a defaulter in govt.
Hasn't hindered his career to date.

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

Incidentally, their its currently a defaulter in govt.
Hasn't hindered his career to date.

Who?

dxhound2005

Ghandee wrote: »

Mary Lou its probably doing what the half of the country are doing.
Bidding their time..........

This tax will be abolished by the next govt.

Incidentally, their its currently a defaulter in govt.
Hasn't hindered his career to date.

Again owners of private houses should not depend on this assertion that some future government will abolish the property tax. Sinn Fein have shown themselves to be very enthusiastic in tax collection in the North, they won't be any different here if they get into power.

Cesium Clock

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If you are the owner of a private house think long and hard before taking up this invitation to break the law. The people who are exhorting you to do so will not be around to support you when you have to face the consequences of following their advice.

And don't let the greedy corrupt past and present make you pay for their ineptitude

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If you are the owner of a private house think long and hard before taking up this invitation to break the law. The people who are exhorting you to do so will not be around to support you when you have to face the consequences of following their advice.

Who will support you when the govt seize your house for being unable to pay a charge they put on it in the future?

The tone of some of the yes campaigners posts are becoming increasingly desperate.

The govt have already conceded a defeat with the hhc, this is evident in the threat of them letting revenue try to correct it next year, thus distancing themselves from any further embarrassment by the utter failure it was from the start.

You'll get no fines, you'll get no jail, this tax still be abolished pretty soon.

Let then fix things at the top, before they target all us homeowners at the bottom.

Don't register!

dvpower

Cesium Clock wrote: »

The cut is far larger than the non payment

The amount being withheld because of non payment is €436,000, much less than the outstanding estimated €950,000.

The €1.7m is the total funding gap - even if there is full compliance, councils are having to tighten their belts.

Cesium Clock

dvpower wrote: »

The amount being withheld because of non payment is €436,000, much less than the outstanding estimated €950,000.

The €1.7m is the total funding gap - even if there is full compliance, councils are having to tighten their belts.

So why blame the non payers for 4 years of cuts ?

dvpower

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Sinn Fein have shown themselves to be very enthusiastic in tax collection in the North, they won't be any different here if they get into power.

Sinn Fein aren't going to be in power after the next election to abolish anything - that's just a wet dream that Ghandee has from time to time.

dxhound2005

Ghandee wrote: »

Who will support you when the govt seize your house for being unable to pay a charge they put on it in the future?

The tone of some of the yes campaigners posts are becoming increasingly desperate.

The govt have already conceded a defeat with the hhc, this is evident in the threat of them letting revenue try to correct it next year, thus distancing themselves from any further embarrassment by the utter failure it was from the start.

You'll get no fines, you'll get no jail, this tax still be abolished pretty soon.

Let then fix things at the top, before they target all us homeowners at the bottom.

Don't register!

If you don't register and pay you cannot sell your house. That is just one of the consequences that these people won't be able to help you avoid if you let them persuade you to break the law.

dvpower

Cesium Clock wrote: »

So why blame the non payers for 4 years of cuts ?

because they are evading their taxes, causing cuts being made in their neighbours services.

Cesium Clock

dvpower wrote: »

Sinn Fein aren't going to be in power after the next election to abolish anything - that's just a wet dream that Ghandee has from time to time.

No the unelected in europe will still be in power whatever happens,

Any so called government we have, are just there to pass the message on,