Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

darkhorse

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Here is one way people can help themselves to budget better. Don't buy food and then throw it away without eating it. This is costing an average of €1000 per year per household, something hard to believe in a country which is supposed to have 775,000 people on the verge of poverty.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/pricewatch/2011/0919/1224304347447.html

The waste does not stop there. There is also the 30 per cent of food bought in our supermarkets that we throw out because it has gone off or we have gone off the idea of eating it.

According to figures published earlier this year by Stop Food Waste, a programme developed by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as part of the National Waste Prevention Programme, food waste arising out of store-bought produce is costing the average Irish household more than €1,000 a year.


BTW your Independent article says the average property tax
will be €300, just another number picked from the sky by journalists.

Well, all I can say is, according to these statistics, me and my family must be greedy bastards, cause I cant afford to throw out food. Having said that, my wife is a fantastic cook. But, should I feel guilt because we dont waste or throw out food in our household, because of this article.

darkhorse

Izzy Skint wrote: »

Cesium, I have a phrase for the situation which many in this country now find themselves in.....I call it "the employment trap"

Talking about phrases. The best one I have heard in a long time was from a poster in the comments section of a paper, which I was reading online.

Enda Kenny is not Irelands representive in Europe, he is Europes representive in Ireland.

Am Chile

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

We won't really know the details until budget day

We will probaly have an idea before then-There is a self assessment valuation bill going through the motions in the seanad,seems like they re gettting ready for the property tax, anyone interested in seeing it's content click on the following links- I have read through some of it, very long reading-when the dail resumes in september Id advise people keep a regular check on the Oireachtas for upcoming draft bills relating to property tax.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=21705&&CatID=59

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2012/7512/a7512s.pdf

darkhorse

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Well if it is €300 lots of people will be €700 better off if they stop buying food they don't need.

I realize it would be hard for a lot of people to believe, but there is people in this country that cannot afford to buy any food at all, and that is fact.

Am Chile

lugha wrote: »

I think you have misread Sinn Fein if you think they are in any way apologetic for their past. But let’s not go there. I drew the comparison to make the point (even if some did not get it!) that it is plainly daft to expect any politician to have unchanging views over a span of two decades.

As for morality, perhaps EK still believes that is morally wrong (I don’t) but now sees it as a necessary evil? But it is also morally wrong that Irish tax payers have to foot the bill for the baking fiasco. And it is certainly morally wrong that future Irish generations will be burdened with the mistakes that this one has made, whoever you choose to blame. In short, rejecting a course of action because it may be morally wrong is not a realistic option for us just now.

As for morality, perhaps EK still believes that is morally wrong (I don’t) but
now sees it as a necessary evil

One could use the same argument about other taxes as a necessary evil-if the Irish government decided to take a similar route to Francois Hollande and impose a a 75 percent tax rate on people earning more than $1.23 million per year and use the argument about it being a necessary evil, how would that sit with most of you here in favour property taxes ?

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/francois-hollande-rises-tax-to-75-2012-8#ixzz24hXtI9vU

lugha

Izzy Skint wrote: »

it is morally wrong for a regime to punish it's people when it's the regime itself that needs fixing.

I don’t know what you think is wrong with the “regime” but whatever fixes you have in mind will do little to address the massive problems we currently have.

Izzy Skint wrote: »

....ok....lets cut social welfare by 50%

Unfortunately, it may well come to this. But methinks your mask slips a bit. Your favoured solution to our problem of all cuts and no taxes was always fully skewed in favour of the private sector worker. But now it seems you are cutting loose the former private sectors workers who are now on the dole and demanding that they be hammered even further. It would seem your philosophy is less “stand up for the private sector worker” and more “Izzy is all right Jack!”

Izzy Skint wrote: »

or how about restricting social welfare to irish people only?..

Be careful what you wish for! If we tell citizens of other countries that they are persona non garta, those countries may respond in kind. How do you think we might cope if all of the Irish citizens all over the world were send home?

Am Chile wrote: »

One could use the same argument about other taxes as a necessary evil-if the Irish government decided to take a similar route to Francois Hollande and impose a a 75 percent tax rate on people earning more than $1.23 million per year and use the argument about it being a necessary evil, how would that sit with most of you here in favour property taxes ?

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/francois-hollande-rises-tax-to-75-2012-8#ixzz24hXtI9vU

No problem in principle. But do tell how many people are making that kind of money in Ireland and hence, how much tax this measure would bring in? Not too many I suspect and a number than will decline if they are subjected to that level of tax.

jetfiremuck

To throw another downer into the mix .... If the distortion comes to house prices and values like it did when the road tax was changed for low Co2 cars( big cars value dropped) where in Gods name will the floor be on property price. As in whats a €300k house for sale in Castleknock today worth in 6months time if it has the smell of an annual tax bill of €1200? Again the uncertainty of it all

Le_Dieux

Izzy Skint wrote: »

they really haven't got a clue....traitors are implementing more cuts and increases in all the wrong places....which one of them is using the government brain cell next week ?

For me, it's still a case of they just do not get the picture, do they? WTF have we so many td's? cllrs??

I hae no problem doing my fair bit for this country, BUT FFS, lead by example!

Sending big fat phil off to Luxumbourg, and running up a tab while the country is bleeding, is sending all the wrong signals out - & I would guess it's not only phil, just he was stupid enough to get caught!

Le_Dieux

Am Chile wrote: »

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Its understandable to be pssied off with these shower of bsatards-having seen the recent video of pat rabbite being confronted having lunch-if I ever happen to see a local fg/lab counciler or local fg td in any pub the same time as me-Il be more ready to confront them in the same manner pat rabbite was recently confronted.

AC, I never heard of this confrontation, please can You enlighten me?

Am Chile

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Am Chile wrote: »

AC, I never heard of this confrontation, please can You enlighten me?

See this video here of pat rabbitte being confronted.

donalg1

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Izzy Skint wrote: »

Thanks IS. But they HAVE fu**ed me around too much. On top of above, I spent 3 hours yesterday deweeding ( with the estate's residents in a clean-up) the kerbside, something the bloody CC should be doing, but NEVER HAVE in 5 years since the estate opened. Our estate is also incomplete, builder went bust, fu**ing local cllrs told us to pay and TRY reclaim back next year as it was an 'oversight' that we were to pay this year.

How should I feel? Please someone tell me!!! All I know, is a FG or LAB cllr/ TD standing for re-elecion better NOT come knocking on my door. Of course that raises another issue on who to vote for, but thats not what this thread is about.

Why would the CC deweed your estate for you? I have a pile of weeds in my driveway and certainly dont expect them to come out and spray them for me.

BobMc

donalg1 wrote: »

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Why would the CC deweed your estate for you? I have a pile of weeds in my driveway and certainly dont expect them to come out and spray them for me.

No I wouldn't expect the council to de weed an estate, I think if everybody did their little bit it would help, for my e100 though I'd expect my estate to be maintained to at least a minimum standard ie potholes filled, street lights maintained and grass cut bare minimum, our estate has not been taken over and we pay e50 for grass cutting per year, last week ESB ireland threatened to cut of the electricity to our waste treatment plant as our builder is gone bust, thats just not right, they even admitted they wont be responsible for any health and safety issues or damage to property because of it, this is plainly wrong, they can swing for their e100 till my estate is taken into council control

donalg1

BobMc wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

No I wouldn't expect the council to de weed an estate, I think if everybody did their little bit it would help, for my e100 though I'd expect my estate to be maintained to at least a minimum standard ie potholes filled, street lights maintained and grass cut bare minimum, our estate has not been taken over and we pay e50 for grass cutting per year, last week ESB ireland threatened to cut of the electricity to our waste treatment plant as our builder is gone bust, thats just not right, they even admitted they wont be responsible for any health and safety issues or damage to property because of it, this is plainly wrong, they can swing for their e100 till my estate is taken into council control

Well you can of course apply to have it taken over, do you know if there is an application for this already? But of course the CC wont be taking it over until they are sure that there are no issues outstanding with the estate. And even if by some miracle they do take it over they wont be cutting the grass in the estate.

BobMc

donalg1 wrote: »

BobMc wrote: »

Well you can of course apply to have it taken over, do you know if there is an application for this already? But of course the CC wont be taking it over until they are sure that there are no issues outstanding with the estate. And even if by some miracle they do take it over they wont be cutting the grass in the estate.

On going for a number of years but with a broke builder whats our chances, its a complete joke of a system, and why wouldn't they cut the crass they should be cutting all public grass areas as far as I'm concerned its what are taxes are for, I would in fact be prepared to pay a tax ala Canada (a % of house value with some of my friends paying $2500-$4000 per anum) but it should then include services that are provided by local councils, waste collection, road and street maintenance, public parks etc etc, but looks like we'll be expected to pay a tax for no return on it

donalg1

BobMc wrote: »

On going for a number of years but with a broke builder whats our chances, its a complete joke of a system, and why wouldn't they cut the crass they should be cutting all public grass areas as far as I'm concerned its what are taxes are for, I would in fact be prepared to pay a tax ala Canada (a % of house value with some of my friends paying $2500-$4000 per anum) but it should then include services that are provided by local councils, waste collection, road and street maintenance, public parks etc etc, but looks like we'll be expected to pay a tax for no return on it

They wont cut the grass because that would be insane for them to do so, the amount of estates they would be responsible for cutting the grass in they would need an army of lads employed full time just to cut grass so it would make no sense at all and would be a complete waste of money.

Hijpo

wait, did they just arrest a chap for ruining a politicians lunch?

moscow is it?

donalg1

Hijpo wrote: »

wait, did they just arrest a chap for ruining a politicians lunch?

moscow is it?

No I think he was arrested for abusing someone and causing a disturbance, I am sure if he wanted to make a point he could have done so in a civil way but couldnt manage this. He was asked to leave by the staff and refused to do so and then mouthed off at the Guards when they arrived so was arrested. Well thats what I read anyway.

Buford Tannen

Hijpo wrote: »

wait, did they just arrest a chap for ruining a politicians lunch?

moscow is it?

Pigs at the trough

Do not disturb

Ghandee

donalg1 wrote: »

No I think he was arrested for abusing someone and causing a disturbance, I am sure if he wanted to make a point he could have done so in a civil way but couldnt manage this. He was asked to leave by the staff and refused to do so and then mouthed off at the Guards when they arrived so was arrested. Well thats what I read anyway.

Donal, the guy they arrested wasn't the guy dishing out insults though.
Pat Rabbite admitted so himself, yet he sat idly by and did nothing.

donalg1

Ghandee wrote: »

Donal, the guy they arrested wasn't the guy dishing out insults thigh.
Pat Rabbite admitted so himself, yet he sat idly by and did nothing.

I know that, the first guy left when asked to by the staff, and the second guy started then and refused to leave when asked so was arrested. Thats what I remember of the story now, havent read it since yesterday.

Geuze

Izzy Skint wrote: »

a few questions for all you pro tax posters....
when is the property tax proposed to start ?......I presumed all along it was January 2013 ?....if so then can one of you explain to me how the hell will they manage to do this with 4 months left in 2012 ?.....are they back from their summer holidays yet ?....
when is the third set of reminder letters due to be posted?
who will value the homes ?...the homeowner ?...they don't have a database of homeowners and probably never will so how will they check this?....how long would it take all homeowners to get this done?....
how will they decide boundaries between areas ? by street, postal address, town, council area, county ?
what about disagreements in valuations ?
will a cert be issued when you pay ?
how will homes be valued up or down over subsequent years if the property market is at a virtual standstill ?
will they expect homeowners in certain areas to begin paying the prop. tax BEFORE other areas or will it be introduced nationwide all at once ?.....
will the value of the home be assessed every year, every 2 years ?....
how will it be collected ? from source ?
will we see an improvement in services ? in which services ?
will the public have recourse to complain if said services are not satisfactory ? :):)
good luck guys if you think our elected imbeciles can sort this out in the next 4 months, more like 4 years at the very least !:):):):)

I am a strong supporter of a property tax, but I have to agree with your sentiments.

I was at an ESRI "economic renewal" conference on 18th April, and a speaker from NI described how it took them years to introduce their PT.

http://www.esri.ie/news_events/events/forthcoming_events/event_details/index.xml?id=326

http://www.esri.ie/publications/latest_publications/view/index.xml?id=3517

Hijpo

donalg1 wrote: »

No I think he was arrested for abusing someone and causing a disturbance, I am sure if he wanted to make a point he could have done so in a civil way but couldnt manage this. He was asked to leave by the staff and refused to do so and then mouthed off at the Guards when they arrived so was arrested. Well thats what I read anyway.

i didnt hear any abuse, i heard questions being asked and points being made. I didnt hear anyone being abusive.

Theres nothing civil about Phil Hogan, hes not being asked to leave the dail though.

Can you post the link to the article you read, it would be an interesting read.

donalg1

Hijpo wrote: »

i didnt hear any abuse, i heard questions being asked and points being made. I didnt hear anyone being abusive.

Theres nothing civil about Phil Hogan, hes not being asked to leave the dail though.

Can you post the link to the article you read, it would be an interesting read.

It was an article on the Independents website yesterday cant find it now though it did mention the man was being abusive iirc.

tayto lover

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Here is one way people can help themselves to budget better. Don't buy food and then throw it away without eating it. This is costing an average of €1000 per year per household, something hard to believe in a country which is supposed to have 775,000 people on the verge of poverty.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/pricewatch/2011/0919/1224304347447.html

The waste does not stop there. There is also the 30 per cent of food bought in our supermarkets that we throw out because it has gone off or we have gone off the idea of eating it.

According to figures published earlier this year by Stop Food Waste, a programme developed by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as part of the National Waste Prevention Programme, food waste arising out of store-bought produce is costing the average Irish household more than €1,000 a year.


BTW your Independent article says the average property tax
will be €300, just another number picked from the sky by journalists.

How the Hell can people know what is bought and not eaten?

bgrizzley

tayto lover wrote: »

How the Hell can people know what is bought and not eaten?

They probably set up a quango with a few fat politicians. They had to come up with something to justify their job.
For the record, my dog eats all the scraps. They haven't reduced us to poking around dustbins, yet...

donalg1

tayto lover wrote: »

How the Hell can people know what is bought and not eaten?

They probably surveyed ten people and then decided to use the averages they got from that survey as the figures for everyone.

bgrizzley

I wonder how much Pat left on his plate the day your man was arrested for talking to him

Ghandee

donalg1 wrote: »

They probably surveyed ten people and then decided to use the averages they got from that survey as the figures for everyone.

Ten people leaving the dail.......
Already fattened by the tax payers provided lunches.

Boombastic

We need the parks open, it's the hospitals they should be closing :pac:

darkhorse

lugha wrote: »

I don’t know what you think is wrong with the “regime” but whatever fixes you have in mind will do little to address the massive problems we currently have .

Well, apart from maybe telling the voters a few porky pies, so they would have a better chance of getting elected(they really convinced me)and then once elected, breaking pay caps, which they put in place themselves. There might be something else, I just cant think straight at the moment(I suppose its just me being preoccupied with things like, where the f*ck am I going to come up with the money to pay the myriad of taxes thats coming down the line, we could sell the wife's engagement ring, but after that, who knows). I really dont want to hear any wannabe politicians coming back and saying that they did'nt know what state what was in, it wont wash.:mad::mad: