Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

darkhorse

lugha wrote: »

Your house does generate an income, by virtue of you not having to pay rent to live somewhere else.

Just as a matter of interest, there was a lady on the radio today arguing her case that her home was'nt an asset. Her analogy was the best I have in a while. She said that she would send her son into the kitchen and if the dinner plates were full of money every day, then its an asset.:)

darkhorse

lugha wrote: »

But this unfortunate state of affairs is really no different to anything else you could put your money in to. Even traditionally safe bets like government bonds or even straight forward savings account could have lost you money. And dabbling in the stock market definitely did cost a lot of people.

What about being a bondholder?

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Not so peaceful when the workers collecting the charge get all sorts of abuse and even a shotgun cartridge in the post.

http://www.herald.ie/news/housetax-collector-sent-a-bullet-in-post-3205092.html

That's disgraceful behaviour altogether, and any right thinking man/woman should condem it, which I'm sure posters on either side of the argument will agree on.

However......

When will you reply to these lies you have repeated now, over and over again for 6 months?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80440149&postcount=52

I have asked you now on 4 seperate occasions to comment on the downright untruthfulness of your 'suggestions and insinuations'.

I recall a poster on these threads being banned not so long ago because he refused point blank to answer a question repeatedly put to him. (and he was from the yes side IIRCC)

Will you please either;

Stop deliberately trying to muddy the waters with trying to put it into readers heads that another party are running a 'property tax' over the border.

or

Admit you have lied again, and again, and again, but when confronted refused to acknowledge your lies.

I await your response.

darkhorse

lugha wrote: »

Technically I don’t think they did. But you might argue that the worded the guidelines in a sneaky way.

ONE IN FIVE of the government’s special advisers are paid more than Department of Finance guidelines which were only laid out in July, it has emerged.
Six of the 30 ministerial advisers receive salaries higher than €92,672 – the limit set out this summer under measures designed to curb runaway pay for ministers’ staff.
In total, salary exemptions have been approved for almost half of the advisers, with 14 paid above the rates that the guidelines suggest.:eek:

dvpower

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Not so peaceful when the workers collecting the charge get all sorts of abuse and even a shotgun cartridge in the post.

http://www.herald.ie/news/housetax-collector-sent-a-bullet-in-post-3205092.html

Not very surprising really.
There was a couple of posters on here a few months ago advocating violence with their posts being thanked by others.

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

Not very surprising really.
There was a couple of posters on here a few months ago advocating violence with their posts being thanked by others.

Who was this now?

Am Chile

lugha wrote: »

Because the HHC is new.

When any new tax/charge/rule is introduced (e.g. smoking ban, penalty points etc.) there usually is a campaign to educate people as to what the new rules are AND to inform them of the penalties if they fail to comply. Nothing new with the HHC.

Excempt those who owe commercial rates-I don,t recall Paul Mcsweeney all over national airwaves threatening those who owe those rates with court appearances or fines-the money owed due to commercial rates do you think that should also be pursued in the same manner as the current household tax ?

lugha

darkhorse wrote: »

ONE IN FIVE of the government’s special advisers are paid more than Department of Finance guidelines which were only laid out in July, it has emerged.
Six of the 30 ministerial advisers receive salaries higher than €92,672 – the limit set out this summer under measures designed to curb runaway pay for ministers’ staff.
In total, salary exemptions have been approved for almost half of the advisers, with 14 paid above the rates that the guidelines suggest.:eek:

Perhaps I am misinterpreting but I understand the relevant guidelines are contained in this document and the relevant passage is on page 17.

Special Advisers are to be placed on the Principal Officer (standard) scale: €80,051 – €83,337 - €86,604 – €89,898 – €92,672. Appointments will be on the first point on the scale, except where the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, with the agreement of the Minister for Finance, sanctions a higher salary rate.

The bit in bold suggests that salaries in excess of €92,672 could be sanctioned.

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

Who was this now?

Wild Bill a couple of months ago or so.

Am Chile

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Not so peaceful when the workers collecting the charge get all sorts of abuse and even a shotgun cartridge in the post.

http://www.herald.ie/news/housetax-collector-sent-a-bullet-in-post-3205092.html

Workers getting abuse over the phone I believe-a member of staff getting a shotgun cartridge in their own mail-I find hard to believe- (1) how would of an average member of public of found his/her home address ? (2) I think I think its just put out there to try blacken opposition to the household tax.

Ghandee

lugha wrote: »

Perhaps I am misinterpreting but I understand the relevant guidelines are contained in this document and the relevant passage is on page 17.



The bit in bold suggests that salaries in excess of €92,672 could be sanctioned.

What a load of tripe?

Thats a rule being made that has details in it, which is completely sanctioning the breaking of the rule? (so whats the point of it)

Like when you were asked to give a yes or a no answer.

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

Wild Bill a couple of months ago or so.

Ah, Wildbill eh? What happened him? Banned I presume?

(honestly) can't remember that.

I certainly didn't condone it either.

dvpower

Am Chile wrote: »

Workers getting abuse over the phone I believe-a member of staff getting a shotgun cartridge in their own mail-I find hard to believe- (1) how would of an average member of public of found his/her home address ? (2) I think I think its just put out there to try blacken opposition to the household tax.

The linked newspaper report makes no mention of the shotgun cartridge being sent to a home address.
Do you believe that a shotgun cartridge was sent to an official at their work address?

Am Chile

dvpower wrote: »

The linked newspaper report makes no mention of the shotgun cartridge being sent to a home address.
Do you believe that a shotgun cartridge was sent to an official at their work address?

The linked newspaper report also makes no mention of it specifically sent to the work address of an official- the actual quote a bit below-sent in the post some people will conclude it would of been posted to a home address which I find hard to believe-if it was sent to the work address I might believe-then its very odd timing to let it known of such a threat received- when court cases are being threatened-very odd timing.

We had the pleasure of having a shotgun cartridge sent in the post which I
reported to the gardai

donalg1

darkhorse wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

They wont cut the grass because that would be insane for them to do so, the amount of estates they would be responsible for cutting the grass in they would need an army of lads employed full time just to cut grass so it would make no sense at all and would be a complete waste of money.

donalg1 wrote: »

They should cut the grass because that would be proper for them to do so, the amount of estates they would be responsible for cutting the grass in they could get an army of unemployed lads, from the dole queue, employed full time and maybe given extra money, on top of their dole just to cut grass so it would make sense and would not be a complete waste of money.

OK, donal, just read your post, then read the altered version and tell me that it dos'ent make sense.

Well it doesn't make any sense at all. What they could do is continue to let the residents in the estate cut the grass as they are doing now thereby saving themselves a fortune in wages and the rest of the costs involved with your proposal.

Why would they take on these costs at a time when they are looking to reduce spending?

dvpower

Am Chile wrote: »

The linked newspaper report also makes no mention of it specifically sent to the work address of an official- the actual quote a bit below-sent in the post some people will conclude it would of been posted to a home address which I find hard to believe-if it was sent to the work address I might believe-then its very odd timing to let it known of such a threat received- when court cases are being threatened-very odd timing.

That quote has McSweeney saying 'we' had the pleasure... . and that he himself made the Gardai report. This suggests to me that it was sent to an official address.

You might think it more likely that McSweeney is making up the whole story. Do you think he's doing it off his own bat or is there a conspiracy at play here? If you believe it to be a conspiracy, who else do you think is involved? Do you think he lied to the newspaper only or did he also file a false Garda report?

You have a very 'interesting' perspective.

donalg1

Le_Dieux wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

Ok but where in any of that does it say they will be cutting the grass in private estates? When a CC takes over an estate they dont cut the grass in the estate simple as that and this has nothing to do with the HHC.

Since when is an estate taken in charge by the CC a 'private estate'?

Since always why what do you think it is?

lugha

Ghandee wrote: »

What a load of tripe?

Thats a rule being made that has details in it, which is completely sanctioning the breaking of the rule? (so whats the point of it)

I have no idea why you are asking me, I didn't write the guidelines. :P

I was asked did I think the breaking of these caps amount to the breaking of a government promise which in turn amounted to a lie, I would say. interpreting the guidelines literally, and if you insist on a yes or no answer, no!

What all the hang up about this is with you lads, and what is has to to do with the HHC or property tax, I have no idea.

Hijpo

Its been made clear that the services we apparently already recieve for free will not increase in quality and we will not get an increase in services in return for this charge/tax

Realisticly i see no insentive to hand over this money. Dont bother with the threats of "fines will be insentive enough" because.... well... bluntly it isnt... neither are the guilt trips of turning off lights.

donalg1

darkhorse wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

Ok but where in any of that does it say they will be cutting the grass in private estates? When a CC takes over an estate they dont cut the grass in the estate simple as that and this has nothing to do with the HHC.

So I take it by that answer that its proper and right to pay to have the councils grass cut, even if it is in our private estate. Also to pay the HHC this year, any impending property tax and any impending rise in whatever monies the residents ass. may look for, because the fuel that is used in the machine that the guy uses to cut the grass,(which is belong to the council), is rising at the pumps. By the way, it was the council that sold us our sites to build our private houses on in this private estate. But they still retain the several acres of leisure/amenity area that we, the residents, have developed over the years, at our expense, saving them literaly thousands.

The green area in the estate doesn't belong to the council though that's why they don't and won't cut it. It's very straight forward I am simply alluding you to the fact that the local council will never cut the grass in the estate for you. The reasons why they won't well I don't really care I just want to point out that you need to get past this idea because it won't ever happen.

Oarrack Bama

I have paid my house hold charge in Ireland. In the UK property taxes are a lot more expensive than in Ireland. Paying property tax is just normal. I think it is unfair on the majority who have paid when they see some not paying. You will have to pay some day all the arrears and penalties so why put it off? Cutting the nose to spite one's face comes to mind.

donalg1

Oarrack Bama wrote: »

I have paid my house hold charge in Ireland. In the UK property taxes are a lot more expensive than in Ireland. Paying property tax is just normal. I think it is unfair on the majority who have paid when they see some not paying. You will have to pay some day all the arrears and penalties so why put it off? Cutting the nose to spite one's face comes to mind.

Prepare to be called a sheep or shill.

Am Chile

Oarrack Bama wrote: »

I have paid my house hold charge in Ireland. In the UK property taxes are a lot more expensive than in Ireland. Paying property tax is just normal. I think it is unfair on the majority who have paid when they see some not paying. You will have to pay some day all the arrears and penalties so why put it off? Cutting the nose to spite one's face comes to mind.

First post and you re already asking people to pay-first in your claim about the majority paying-a good enough portion of properties registered were multiple properties owned by one landlord-I posted about this last week.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80355524&postcount=6230

This is what the campaign and Rob Kitchen Director of the
National Institute of Regional and Spatial Analysis and expert demographer of NUI Maynooth - have explained all along - A property does not equal a person - as not all properties are individually owned-as some people own mass amounts of property.

Your other argument about council tax in the uk and trying to compare it to a property tax here is cock and bull-list of services associated with the council tax.

• Planning and economic development
• Environmental Health
• Recreation and tourism
• Refuse collection and disposal
• Housing
• Libraries
• Education
• Other services

http://www.angus.gov.uk/services/view_service_detail.cfm?serviceid=1163

tayto lover

donalg1 wrote: »

Prepare to be called a sheep or shill.

Or a re-reg

Am Chile

Recent comments by a FF spokesperson.

Fianna Fáil says there is no point in
implementing a property tax which people cannot afford to pay.





Fianna Fáil's finance spokesperson Michael
McGrath says people's inability to pay must be taken into account.

"Are
they really going to expect the 130,000 families in mortgage arrears to pay a
property tax? Are they going to expect people in negative equity to pay a
property tax?

"I think that the key issue is the ability to pay and at
this point in time, given where the country is at and the very real difficulties
people are facing, I genuinely do not believe there is an ability to pay €400 or
€500 in many cases."

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/ff-people-wont-be-able-to-pay-property-tax-564581.html

bgrizzley

dvpower wrote: »

Not very surprising really.
There was a couple of posters on here a few months ago advocating violence with their posts being thanked by others.

Death penalty for us hhc tax evaders?

tayto lover

Property Tax being discussed on the Vincent Browne Show now. Chaired by Vincent O'Toole.

Izzy Skint

donalg1 wrote: »

Prepare to be called a sheep or shill.

A few weeks ago I posted a series of questions to the pro taxers , all I wanted was simple yes or no answers, the questions were to do with the comparison of Ireland to the UK.....not one of the pro taxers ever replied, I asked ALASTAIR repeatedly to respond.....he never did , and that was before he was banned from this thread.....

those pro taxers are just like their politician buddies, they either don't answer the question being asked or they just don't answer......"unavailable for comment" is the term politicians use.

darkhorse

lugha wrote: »

Perhaps I am misinterpreting .

Or perhaps I am.

EDUCATION MINISTER RUAIRÍ Quinn has admitted that the breaching of salary caps for some ministerial advisers was a mistake but has said it is unlikely that salaries for those advisers will be revisited.
Quinn was responding to reports that the issue of breaching of salary caps was one of the main talking points on the doorstep during the referendum campaign telling RTÉ Radio that it was “a mistake on our part”.
It was disclosed late last year that the Taoiseach had breached the salary cap set by his own government of €92,000 in requesting that his former advisor Ciaran Conlon be paid €127,000 while working for the Enterprise Minister Richard Bruton.

Izzy Skint

January 2013 is looking less and less likely:)...tick bloody tock