Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] Poll Reset

Ghandee · 28-08-2012 12:38pm

tayto lover wrote: »

We have another 5 Billion to pay over to Bondholders apparently.
How many HHC's is that?
I am still not going to pay.

1.6 billion equals ten years worth of hhc repayments Tayto!

They're pursuing the Irish tax payers relentlessly and aggressively for this paltry sum of 160million this year (on the grand scale of things)

Yet they're paying back how many billions to unsecured, no guaranteed, anono, faceless bondholders.

Makes me wonder who FG have in their best interests tbh, bondholders or the Irish people.

If you register and pay, expect more of your hard earnings to go to them.

darkhorse · 28-08-2012 12:57pm

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Who does own it then?

The only thing I can deduce, L_D, is, that it belongs to donal. What other reason could there be for him coming back with the answer that he came back with.

You see, the reason I say this is, well, right up to our last residents association meeting, which was held four weeks ago, the council actually owned said land. I would probably not even know this, only that I am treasurer. But, anything could have happened in the past four weeks and as one of donal's colleagues would say, I did'nt get the memo.

Hijpo · 28-08-2012 2:04pm

Has this been linked to yet?

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/workers-to-have-property-tax-taken-from-wages-confirmed-3213307.html

Valetta · 28-08-2012 2:08pm

Hijpo wrote: »

Has this been linked to yet?

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/workers-to-have-property-tax-taken-from-wages-confirmed-3213307.html[/QUOTE]

Probably the most efficient and cost effective way of collecting it.

Hijpo · 28-08-2012 2:11pm

Valetta wrote: »

Hijpo wrote: »

Has this been linked to yet?

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/workers-to-have-property-tax-taken-from-wages-confirmed-3213307.html[/QUOTE]

Probably the most efficient and cost effective way of collecting it.

And now they are taking it from council tennants, wonder how much they will get hit for.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/council-tenants-will-be-asked-to-pay-new-tax--fg-backbencher-564673.html

donalg1 · 28-08-2012 2:11pm

darkhorse wrote: »

The only thing I can deduce, L_D, is, that it belongs to donal. What other reason could there be for him coming back with the answer that he came back with.

You see, the reason I say this is, well, right up to our last residents association meeting, which was held four weeks ago, the council actually owned said land. I would probably not even know this, only that I am treasurer. But, anything could have happened in the past four weeks and as one of donal's colleagues would say, I did'nt get the memo.

Ok yeah it belongs to me, but you neednt think I am cutting it, you and the other residents will have to do that for the foreseeable future unfortunately. If you want to pay me to cut it well then I am sure we can work something out.

mikom · 28-08-2012 2:14pm

Hijpo wrote: »

Valetta wrote: »

And now they are taking it from council tennants, wonder how much they will get hit for.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/council-tenants-will-be-asked-to-pay-new-tax--fg-backbencher-564673.html

Should see a few out protesting on the streets if this comes to pass.

Valetta · 28-08-2012 2:18pm

mikom wrote: »

Hijpo wrote: »

Should see a few out protesting on the streets if this comes to pass.

Knock yourselves out.

Ghandee · 28-08-2012 2:20pm

Hijpo wrote: »

Has this been linked to yet?

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/workers-to-have-property-tax-taken-from-wages-confirmed-3213307.html

404 page not found.

Must have changed their minds

Hijpo · 28-08-2012 2:23pm

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/workers-to-have-property-tax-taken-from-wages-confirmed-3213307.html

any better?

dvpower · 28-08-2012 2:25pm

Valetta wrote: »

Hijpo wrote: »

Has this been linked to yet?

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/workers-to-have-property-tax-taken-from-wages-confirmed-3213307.html[/QUOTE]

Probably the most efficient and cost effective way of collecting it.

Noonan said that it would be collected by the Revenue, not that it would be collected at source - that's just speculation by the Indo being reported as fact.

The revenue were also responsible for collection of the last property tax and it wasn't collected at source.

lugha · 28-08-2012 2:28pm

Hijpo wrote: »

Has this been linked to yet?

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/workers-to-have-property-tax-taken-from-wages-confirmed-3213307.html

Well I never! What a despicable notion that you might pay your tax, as you earn? Where did they get such an idea?

mikom wrote: »

Should see a few out protesting on the streets if this comes to pass.

Lads, you need to make up your mind what exactly it is about this tax that you object to. For so long you insisted that it was unfair that LA tenants did not pay …

tayto lover · 28-08-2012 2:43pm

Valetta wrote: »

Hijpo wrote: »

Has this been linked to yet?

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/workers-to-have-property-tax-taken-from-wages-confirmed-3213307.html[/QUOTE]

Probably the most efficient and cost effective way of collecting it.

I predict that it is unconstitutional to do this. It is not earnings and will be challenged. Also the unions will fight it as their members will demand.

BUT it is a sneaky F.G. way to let their friends and core voters, the farmers, off the hook.
Serious trouble ahead over this for the Government. Bring it on.

Bozacke · 28-08-2012 2:48pm

Since my house is in negative equity, although I continue to make payments, when the house is valued shouldn't the bank be responsible for the new value-based property tax, since they own the value, technically I don't really own the house, I just own the debt.

This could be a deal breaker for may home owners in negative equity, where it's bad enough hat they have to continue to make payments on a house with a mortgage a lot bigger than it's current worth and now to add insult to injury the Government could be asking for another €2,000 a year on top of their existing over-priced mortgage payments. It may be time people will stop paying their mortgage and leaving the country sticking the banks (that caused all the problems in the first place) with the debt.

Valetta · 28-08-2012 2:48pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Valetta wrote: »

I predict that it is unconstitutional to do this. It is not earnings and will be challenged. Also the unions will fight it as their members will demand.

BUT it is a sneaky F.G. way to let their friends and core voters, the farmers, off the hook.
Serious trouble ahead over this for the Government. Bring it on.

I've no idea how it could be unconstitutional. I don't think there is anything in the constitution that says deductions cannot be made from earnings.

How is it letting farmers off the hook? They will have to include it in their tax returns.
It would be quite difficult for a farmer to make a tax return and claim to be not living anywhere.

Ghandee · 28-08-2012 2:53pm

lugha wrote: »

Well I never! What a despicable notion that you might pay your tax, as you earn? Where did they get such an idea?

I'm unsure if deducting at source is actually legal tbh.
Court orders need to be in place to deduct a fine for example from source.
How will this affect self employed,?
How will they f deduct from those who've not resisters (without a database)
What about workers who pay their tax in the north (as I'll be doing soon)

lugha wrote: »

Lads, you need to make up your mind what exactly it is about this tax that you object to. For so long you insisted that it was unfair that LA tenants did not pay …

I think you'll find he means council tenants will most likely now be joining home owners on the street.

You've kept a low profile today Lugha.
Nothing else catch your attention today, or were the various other posts today (bondholders etc) simply indefensible?

tayto lover · 28-08-2012 2:54pm

Valetta wrote: »

tayto lover wrote: »

I've no idea how it could be unconstitutional. I don't think there is anything in the constitution that says deductions cannot be made from earnings.

How is it letting farmers off the hook? They will have to include it in their tax returns.
It would be quite difficult for a farmer to make a tax return and claim to be not living anywhere.

Your income tax, P.R.S.I. and U.S.C. are based on earnings i.e. wages your Property Tax is not and should not be taken from your wage as far as I know.

The farmers find plenty of ways not to pay tax as they self-assess. During the foot and mouth there were more sheep claimed for in the Cooley Peninsula than there were in the rest of the country.

donalg1 · 28-08-2012 2:56pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I predict that it is unconstitutional to do this. It is not earnings and will be challenged. Also the unions will fight it as their members will demand.

BUT it is a sneaky F.G. way to let their friends and core voters, the farmers, off the hook.
Serious trouble ahead over this for the Government. Bring it on.

In fairness though people have said they are incompetent and the way they have gone about the HHC proves this. So they cant really let people go down the route of self declaration with the property tax as this obviously doesnt work.

I do doubt that they will be able to take it directly from peoples wages though so who knows what they will come up. Arent they supposed to be giving more info about this when they are back next month?

tayto lover · 28-08-2012 2:59pm

donalg1 wrote: »

tayto lover wrote: »

In fairness though people have said they are incompetent and the way they have gone about the HHC proves this. So they cant really let people go down the route of self declaration with the property tax as this obviously doesnt work.

I do doubt that they will be able to take it directly from peoples wages though so who knows what they will come up. Arent they supposed to be giving more info about this when they are back next month?

Yes. The papers haven't much else to speculate about in fairness and a bit of scaremongering sells.

Ghandee · 28-08-2012 2:59pm

Valetta wrote: »

tayto lover wrote: »

I've no idea how it could be unconstitutional. I don't think there is anything in the constitution that says deductions cannot be made from earnings.

How is it letting farmers off the hook? They will have to include it in their tax returns.
It would be quite difficult for a farmer to make a tax return and claim to be not living anywhere.

Tayto, this lads posting history (look at the forms) is very familiar to me..........

All to familiar.

tayto lover · 28-08-2012 3:02pm

Ghandee wrote: »

Valetta wrote: »

Tayto, this lads posting history (look at the forms) is very familiar to me..........

All to familiar.

There are many Born again Christians around. I really don't mind.

Hijpo · 28-08-2012 3:05pm

lugha wrote: »

Lads, you need to make up your mind what exactly it is about this tax that you object to. For so long you insisted that it was unfair that LA tenants did not pay …

Theres a wide variety of reasons

donalg1 · 28-08-2012 3:07pm

Fcuking quotes are doing my head in, one person fcuks it up and then everyones are messed up thereafter, its not that hard to use them, just quote the message and dont p1ss about with

simple.

Valetta · 28-08-2012 3:07pm

[QUOTE=Ghandee;80478458

Tayto, this lads posting history (look at the forms) is very familiar to me..........

All to familiar.[/QUOTE]

I take it that's me you are referring to?

And your point being?

If you are insinuating that I am a re-reg, then you're wrong.

bgrizzley · 28-08-2012 3:12pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Unless he is renting your brother is liable for the HHC - as for the property tax, who the hell knows?

Just to point out bannasidhe, renters won't be liable, however they will be bearing the cost of this 'wealth' tax for the landlords, who actually own the asset

Ghandee · 28-08-2012 3:12pm

Valetta wrote: »

I take it that's me you are referring to?

And your point being?

If you are insinuating that I am a re-reg, then you're wrong.

I'm not insinuating anything sir.
Merely pointing out that your posting style, opinions, and forums you frequent are 'familiar'.

That's all.

lugha · 28-08-2012 3:12pm

Ghandee wrote: »

I'm unsure if deducting at source is actually legal tbh.

Then you change the law to make it legal. I suspect you have rather a poor grasp on how the real world works but governments introducing / repealing / amending laws to implement their polices is how the game works.

Ghandee wrote: »

I think you'll find he means council tenants will most likely now be joining home owners on the street.

I know what he meant just as you know full well what I meant.

Ghandee wrote: »

Nothing else catch your attention today, or were the various other posts today (bondholders etc) simply indefensible?

Well I did (rather foolishly) chase the red herrings (or deflection to use your own word) you threw yesterday in relation to pay caps been broken. While it was fun to see how miffed you were to be completely wrong, it really has little to with property tax.

So I won’t be engaging with the same nonsense with bondholders. You would not pay this property tax if we are paying off bondholders, you would not pay if we were not paying off bondholders. They are not relevant here so no more scarlet fish please.

And of course, it had been pointed out many, many times that bank debts / bond holders only account for a small part of the problem in relation to our deficit, which would still be massive, bailout or no bailout. But you ignored that before and no doubt will continue to do so again.

Hijpo wrote: »

Theres a wide variety of reasons

There certainly is. But it tends to help your argument if reasons don’t contradict one another! I.e. LA tenants don’t have to pay / LA tenants will have to pay

lugha · 28-08-2012 3:16pm

Valetta wrote: »

I take it that's me you are referring to?

And your point being?

If you are insinuating that I am a re-reg, then you're wrong.

I think you'll find the no side here have rather a taste for conspiracy theories V! Rather curious as the double posters that we know about in this thread were from their side! :pac:

Hijpo · 28-08-2012 3:17pm

lugha wrote: »

There certainly is. But it tends to help your argument if reasons don’t contradict one another! I.e. LA tenants don’t have to pay / LA tenants will have to pay

:rolleyes:

That arguement was made before they made the announcment that LA tenants are liable, is that the only one that contradicts? there isnt even a bottom left on the barrel now, youv scraped your way through it and have now started on the hole.

lugha wrote: »

Well I did (rather foolishly) chase the red herrings (or deflection to use your own word) you threw yesterday in relation to pay caps been broken. While it was fun to see how miffed you were to be completely wrong, it really has little to with property tax.

If they didnt break the caps, that they set in place, then its money saved to be put back into the coffers, it doesnt really matter to me how little of a difference it makes, money saved is money saved and in the state the country is in money saved should be priority instead of making life more difficult on the people who are already paying for everything be it through taxation, levies and charges or indirectly through the loss of services.

Ghandee · 28-08-2012 3:22pm

lugha wrote: »

Then you change the law to make it legal. I suspect you have rather a poor grasp on how the real world works but governments introducing / repealing / amending laws to implement their polices is how the game works.

It may also be unconstitutional.
Requiring a referendum? Do you think it would pass?

Answer the rest of my questions please.

Self employed, how will it be deducted from their source?
How will they implement it without us registering on the database?
What about paye worker,v who pays his tax in the north?

More than one way to skin a cat.

Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

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Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] Poll Reset