Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

Le_Dieux

dvpower wrote: »

The truth is that there is no combination of parties that will repeal the property tax. Even SF won't repeal it in the unlikely scenario that they get power.

I find the idea of having to vote in the next GE frightening TBH. I will NEVER vote SF, nor would I vote EVER for FG or Labour. Whew, what does that leave me? :eek:

I think this damn country needs good honest politicians - we haven't had one since Garrett Fitzgerald ( R.I.P.).

Sorry, i am digressing from the HHC thread here

dvpower

Heroditas wrote: »

HERE he says....




18th April 2012

Well that's wonderful news for anyone worrying about their income tax. They might look at the trioka qualification 'tho, 'cause I think they had something to say about widening the Income Tax base.

ncdadam

dvpower wrote: »

Well that's wonderful news for anyone worrying about their income tax. They might look at the trioka qualification 'tho, 'cause I think they had something to say about widening the Income Tax base.

At least we know who's running the country.

The troika, the ECB and the bondholders.

Why do we have a government at all, they're a serious waste of money.

I'm sure a few of our precious civil servants could do the job the troika tell them to do.

Glenalla

tayto lover wrote: »

If you pay more tax and have less than you did in your wage packet then it's a Tax hike.

Exactly right, its a tax increase - simple as that "an increase on the amount of tax you pay relative to your income" ie: the rate of tax paid as a percentage of your income increases therefore your effective tax rate has increased, simple primary school mathematics

---

Period!!

There is no complication here, so don't try to complicate it please anyone.

Am Chile

The upcoming budget in december looks like its not gonna go down too well with people, the rumours a petrol to hit €2 a litre, the rumours of PRSI to be hiked, the rumours of medical cards and travel passes to be taken off old age pensioners,the value based property tax looking set to be high,money guide Ireland reckons the following tax rates.

Earlier
studies into property taxes in Ireland have suggested annual rates
between 0.25% and 0.4% of the house value . That would mean a tax of
between €500 and €800 on a €200k house .

http://www.moneyguideireland.com/property-tax-some-more-details-emerging.html

Pat Rabbite has had the following to say on newstalk.

The
Minister for Communications says it’s not
guaranteed that the Government will survive December’s
Budget.


Minister
Pat Rabbitte says the Government’s odds of lasting past the Budget were
‘middling to good’.


He
says the Budget is likely to be the most difficult – and that the upcoming term
may also be the most challenging for the Government.


Minister
Pat Rabbitte says Ireland will be closing in on economic recovery after the
Budget – but only if the Government
survives.

http://www.newstalk.ie//2012/news/pat-rabbitte-not-guaranteed-government-will-survive-decembers-budget/

ncdadam

Am Chile wrote: »

The upcoming budget in december looks like its not gonna go down too well with people, the rumours a petrol to hit €2 a litre, the rumours of PRSI to be hiked, the rumours of medical cards and travel passes to be taken off old age pensioners,the value based property tax looking set to be high,money guide Ireland reckons the following tax rates.



http://www.moneyguideireland.com/property-tax-some-more-details-emerging.html

Pat Rabbite has had the following to say on newstalk.


http://www.newstalk.ie//2012/news/pat-rabbitte-not-guaranteed-government-will-survive-decembers-budget/

It's only a matter of time until this government collapses.
One party who wont tax the better off in society and one party who won't touch the unions, the CPA or the less well off.
A marriage made in hell and it's on the rocks.

dvpower

ncdadam wrote: »

At least we know who's running the country.

The troika, the ECB and the bondholders.

Why do we have a government at all, they're a serious waste of money.

I'm sure a few of our precious civil servants could do the job the troika tell them to do.

True enough.
The troika are doing the broad brush strokes - the government are just filling in the gaps.

Its sad, and it'll apply to any new government until we can stand on our own two feet again, so don't be fooled that a new administration could alter things significantly.

dxhound2005

ncdadam wrote: »

It's only a matter of time until this government collapses.
One party who wont tax the better off in society and one party who won't touch the unions, the CPA or the less well off.
A marriage made in hell and it's on the rocks.

I know the opinion on AH is very anti property tax. But is that the majority opinion in the country? The last one party government was elected in 1977 the one that did away with our previous property tax. Coalition has been the way since. What do you think should be the new coalition from the existing parties or do you want an election?

Le_Dieux

ncdadam wrote: »

At least we know who's running the country.



Why do we have a government at all, they're a serious waste of money.

NEVER a truer word spoken NC!!

Le_Dieux

Am Chile wrote: »

The upcoming budget in december looks like its not gonna go down too well with people, the rumours a petrol to hit €2 a litre, the rumours of PRSI to be hiked, the rumours of medical cards and travel passes to be taken off old age pensioners,the value based property tax looking set to be high,money guide Ireland reckons the following tax rates.



http://www.moneyguideireland.com/property-tax-some-more-details-emerging.html

Pat Rabbite has had the following to say on newstalk.


http://www.newstalk.ie//2012/news/pat-rabbitte-not-guaranteed-government-will-survive-decembers-budget/

I am anything but a FG or Lab voter. I do, however, have to take my hat off to PR. He stood up to the Catholic Church on the abortion issue, and at least has the balls to be honest and forthright on this.

As for Noonan/FG? They really are on another f1cking planet to us altogether. Put petrol up to €2/ltr:eek: Is he taking the p1ss or what? Really hope it is only a rumour!

tayto lover

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I know the opinion on AH is very anti property tax. But is that the majority opinion in the country? The last one party government was elected in 1977 the one that did away with our previous property tax. Coalition has been the way since. What do you think should be the new coalition from the existing parties or do you want an election?

Honestly is there any difference in FF or FG/Labour. Same policies. Looking after their own cronies. I have never voted for SF but I am running out of options if there is another election.

Heroditas

dvpower wrote: »

Heroditas wrote: »

HERE he says....




18th April 2012

Well that's wonderful news for anyone worrying about their income tax. They might look at the trioka qualification 'tho, 'cause I think they had something to say about widening the Income Tax base.

The government have the perfect ready-made excuse.
The can promise and say anything and tag "as long as the Troika given us the green light".
The problem is that any last modicum of faith and trust that the voters have for them will be lost. They'd be better off saying nothing instead of various TDs giving conflicting views and statements.

dvpower

Heroditas wrote: »

The government have the perfect ready-made excuse.
The can promise and say anything and tag "as long as the Troika given us the green light".
The problem is that any last modicum of faith and trust that the voters have for them will be lost. They'd be better off saying nothing instead of various TDs giving conflicting views and statements.

The troika program is fairly well spelled out - obviously subject to change if things go to plan - so I don't think the government can introduce any old thing and blame it on the troika.

ncdadam

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I know the opinion on AH is very anti property tax. But is that the majority opinion in the country? The last one party government was elected in 1977 the one that did away with our previous property tax. Coalition has been the way since. What do you think should be the new coalition from the existing parties or do you want an election?

I'll tell you what I want.

I want this crowd of wasters to stand up for my country in their dealings with Europe.
I want them to start trying to save our domestic economy instead of piling on the taxes that are destroying it.
I want them to lead by example and not by handing out pay rises to their close mates.
I want them to stop the farce that is the CPA, awarding pay rises in the public sector while the private sector struggles,(average pay in the PS €300 weekly more than the private sector) rubbing our noses in it or what?
I want a bit of fairness and a bit of compassion for the people who elected them.

I won't get any of the above though, so you'll excuse me if I don't add to the madness by paying this ridiculous tax.

dvpower

ncdadam wrote: »

It's only a matter of time until this government collapses.

If the government did collapse, I'd give it six months before half the same old faces would be on here calling for the collapse of the next one, no matter what their hue and the other half would be on here supporting them, no matter what they did.

ncdadam

Heroditas wrote: »

The government have the perfect ready-made excuse.
The can promise and say anything and tag "as long as the Troika given us the green light".
The problem is that any last modicum of faith and trust that the voters have for them will be lost. They'd be better off saying nothing instead of various TDs giving conflicting views and statements.

18 month in power and still it's, 'the troika made me do it' or 'it's all the previous governments fault'.

Man up FG and for once in your history stop blaming everyone else....

Ghandee

They could've just stood up to the bullies in Europe.

They chose to be the bullies to their own citizens.


Various fg back benchers and senators speaking out against decisions being made, perhaps Pat Rabbite knows something the rest of us don't?

Guaranteed pensions for all though, so it will ultimately not matter a jot to the lads.

ncdadam

Ghandee wrote: »

They could've just stood up to the bullies in Europe.

They chose to be the bullies to their own citizens.


Various fg back benchers and senators speaking out against decisions being made, pperhaps Pat Rabbite.knows something the rest of us don't?

Guaranteed pensions for all though, so it will ultimately not matter a jot to the lads.

Did I hear someone say last week that noonan isn't our representative in Europe, rather he's Europe's representative in Ireland.

Ghandee

ncdadam wrote: »

Did I hear someone say last week that noonan isn't our representative in Europe, rather he's Europe's representative in Ireland.

Excellent summarisation ^^^

bgrizzley

dvpower wrote: »

If the government did collapse, I'd give it six months before half the same old faces would be on here calling for the collapse of the next one, no matter what their hue and the other half would be on here supporting them, no matter what they did.

i couldnt wait 6 months , ill be on the day after the GE , they are all only a bunch of cnuts .

tayto lover

dvpower wrote: »

If the government did collapse, I'd give it six months before half the same old faces would be on here calling for the collapse of the next one, no matter what their hue and the other half would be on here supporting them, no matter what they did.

We will probably always have that situation as long as the Govt put their own people on a lesser footing than the bondholders, bankers etc. I know you will say that the money paid to them is only a small proportion of what we owe but the people see themselves as being used as pawns to pay others. There are far too many cuts and the Govt should go back and renegotiate the deal and stretch it over a longer term. They need to be firmer in their dealings with the Troika and stop being "yes men". We simply cannot continue on this track as it will cause melt-down and end in street violence. They are not being honest with the people at all and are keeping them in the dark.

Ghandee

tayto lover wrote: »

We will probably always have that situation as long as the Govt put their own people on a lesser footing than the bondholders, bankers etc. I know you will say that the money paid to them is only a small proportion of what we owe but the people see themselves as being used as pawns to pay others. There are far too many cuts and the Govt should go back and renegotiate the deal and stretch it over a longer term. They need to be firmer in their dealings with the Troika and stop being "yes men". We simply cannot continue on this track as it will cause melt-down and end in street violence. They are not being honest with the people at all and are keeping them in the dark.

I agree with you 100% Tayto bar the piece were it refers to what 'we' owe.

The last clowns turned what was owed by the banks/speculators etc into what 'we' owe.

Undoing that wrong should be first and foremost on any new Govts priority, or alternatively FG shoiuld start to slowly but surely adopt this stance to their European bosses, leading up to a full blown 'no more of this crap' attitude emerges.

Its plain to see we're being made scapegoats, maybe even an 'experiment' by our overlords in Euro land, but the time has come to regain our 'Fighting Irish' reputation.

We're respected nearly all over the world as a hard working, honest, unassuming nation, and I for one dont want that reputation to morph into a 'Soft touch Paddy' one.

Enough is enough FG/Lab. Either listen to the people who put you into power to represent them, or resign yourselves to the political scrap heap.

Izzy Skint

dvpower wrote: »

Do you think that a property tax would be more damaging than increases in other taxes?
Or do you think we don't need tax increases at all?

you're right DV, we don't need any further taxes, raising taxes is a massive step in the wrong direction, we need massive spending cuts and we need them now....probably already too late.

Izzy Skint

dvpower wrote: »

How is social welfare an incentive to do some overtime, to go for a promotion, to try and achieve a bonus?

You have a very narrow view of what an incentive to work is.

"How is social welfare an incentive to do some overtime, to go for a promotion, to try and achieve a bonus?" ....we can't all work in the public service !

dvpower

Izzy Skint wrote: »

you're right DV, we don't need any further taxes, raising taxes is a massive step in the wrong direction, we need massive spending cuts and we need them now....probably already too late.

There isn't a single political party that shares this viewpoint.
Perhaps you've found a gap in the market - you should run.

dvpower

Izzy Skint wrote: »

"How is social welfare an incentive to do some overtime, to go for a promotion, to try and achieve a bonus?" ....we can't all work in the public service !

Not sure what you're on about. Overtime, promotions and bonuses aren't limited to the PS.

Izzy Skint

lugha wrote: »

You assert the first claim but presumably reject the second? The truth is that the first feels wrong because it’s a foreign notion in this country but the second feels ok because we are familiar with it.



None of this specifically relates to the immorality of property tax. You could argue that each and every austerity measure we did have and will have to ensure is immoral using this same argument. In which case the question remains, is there some further reason that sets a tax on the home apart?

give up lugha, you are getting slaughtered....:D:D

dxhound2005

Izzy Skint wrote: »

give up lugha, you are getting slaughtered....:D:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5QGkOGZubQ

Izzy Skint

dvpower wrote: »

There isn't a single political party that shares this viewpoint.
Perhaps you've found a gap in the market - you should run.

right again DV !!...you're making a bit of a habit of this !
I don't trust ANY politicians or political partys..they all want tax increases, but they differ on who they would hit with these....I think they are all wrong, we need spending cuts, big spending cuts.....when spending is brought back to 2002 / 2003 levels, then you can start raising taxes to make up any deficit.
DV, answer me one question please....why can't we cut our spending back to 2002/2003 levels....why?.....i will wait your answer before I make any further points....

darkhorse

bgrizzley wrote: »

E15000 might be peanuts to you but its a lot of money to me and the majority of people in ireland. All this dont worry about the pennies is typical of the yes sides arguments and its the very reason we are where we are. throwing away money just because you can milk the public for more has to stop.

and im glad i amuse you lugha, sometimes people take all this a little too seriously, but they are a funny bunch of madcap rascals up there in the dail...:D

If I may, I would just like to add to his amusement and to anyone that may think this is amusing.

In order to facilate the upcoming levy's/charges/taxes, I had to cancel a standing order today, in which I had been contributing €5 a month to a charity, which I had in place for the last 6 years, in order to try and claw back some money and to try juggle my finances. I also cancelled a life assurance policy, for which I was paying €26 a month. If my calculations are correct, this money, in addition to the disposable income that I presently have, should just about be enough to pay the property tax next year, if I can manage to hold on to it.
I felt a bit guilty at first, having to cancel a s.o. for a p*xy €5, but then I thought to myself, well, that the govt. is still involved in charitable donations, albeit the money is all borrowed, but I am still paying it through my tax, so I dont feel so guilty now.
I hope they find this amuseing.