Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How about President Obama then? And I know he is running a bankrupt state as well. Evenso I think running Paddy Powers shouldn't entitle them to 4 or 5 times what Obama gets (back in 2009, they are probably getting more now).

http://www.businessandleadership.com/leadership/item/21694-paddy-power-chief-earns-1

I think that most of that money should be given back to the punters and the managers could live on €300,000 a year. The private sector need to give a better example when 775,000 people in the country are supposed to be on the verge of poverty and they are getting poor people to gamble money they can't afford.

Definitely a strong govt supporter here, making a suggestion to give gambling losers their money back lol!

Only difference, you suggest they (Paddy Powers top brass, 100% independent, non reliant on public coffers company)Give back losing punters their money, and take 75% less take home pay (1.2 million down to 300,000)

Whereas our lads decide to pay back losing punters but take tiny decrease in salaries while some top brass in PS, not only didn't take salary cuts, they continue to get pay increment's.

You're living in lala land DX.

Izzy Skint

ncdadam wrote: »

Going to a wedding myself Izzy in about an hour.
Eat, drink and be merry.
Forget about the ****e on here for a day.

totally agree, going to switch off for a few hours, may even allow myself the luxury of a few pints later ! ...hope you day goes well and enjoy !:)

Ghandee

Izzy Skint wrote: »

totally agree, going to switch off for a few hours, may even allow myself the luxury of a few pints later ! ...hope you day goes well and enjoy !:)

What?

You lads have money to go out and have a life yet won't sacrifice that cash to pay your hhc?

Traitors. :rolleyes:

darkhorse

Ghandee wrote: »

Definitely a strong govt supporter here, making a suggestion to give gambling losers their money back lol!

Only difference, you suggest they (Paddy Powers top brass, 100% independent, non reliant on public coffers company)Give back losing punters their money, and take 75% less take home pay (1.2 million down to 300,000)

Whereas our lads decide to pay back losing punters but take tiny decrease in salaries while some top brass in PS, not only didn't take salary cuts, they continue to get pay increment's.

You're living in lala land DX.

Not to mention the very geneous expenses they incur, at times the equivalent to an ordinary workers wages. You're dead right, G, lala land.:mad:

dvpower

Hijpo wrote: »

i was just having a look at the other forums i subscribe to after finishing a night shift of overtime to get money to send my son to preschool. so like so many others my OT is to pay for education or the little bit more to pay there mortgage etc etc not to have a piss up or have a good time.

Since you depend on the overtime, a property tax, rather than income tax rises that will eat into it would probably be more beneficial to you.

lugha

Izzy Skint wrote: »

you say there is no moral arguement against taxing a home, I say there is, my hard work pays your wages, I say you need a pay cut...end of.

That is an argument against paying tax, any tax. I am told there is a particular moral argument against taxing the family home that does not apply to other taxes. I’m still waiting for it.

ncdadam wrote: »

It's hard to follow your points sometimes, your posts seem to meander on a bit.

The Troika, and the IMF in particular, have a lot of experience in analysing countries that have economic crises. But they are not a charitable organization, they would not give us money if they didn’t think they would get it back. From this I would conclude that they think our current path to recovery is likely to succeed.

And I don’t see the rational for lumping our current lenders of last resort in with bondholders? The argument for not paying the latter does not apply to them.

Have fun at your weddings lads. Good for some!

Ghandee wrote: »

Moral arguments/economic arguments. Both arguments made, dismissed because they didn't suit you (not because they were wrong).

Let me remind you again of the question I have asked that you have so far avoided. It has nothing to do with economics or difficulty to pay issues or anything else.

lugha wrote: »

Why do you think (as opposed to feel) it is moral to tax your livelihood but immoral to tax your home?

You and others have insisted that there is a specific moral argument against taxing the family home. But neither you nor Izzy nor anyone else is able to say what it is. I call spoofer. :P

Ghandee

lugha wrote: »

That is an argument against paying tax, any tax. I am told there is a particular moral argument against taxing the family home that does not apply to other
You and others have insisted that there is a specific moral argument against taxing the family home. But neither you nor Izzy nor anyone else is able to say what it is. I call spoofer. :P

A tax on income applies to anyone, legitimately earning an income.

A proportion on the revenue raised by income tax goes towards local services, which everyone in society uses.

A home owners only tax is not morally fair as it singles out home owners only. Yet we're being told its to fund local services also (on top of income tax)

Its not hard to understand tbh.

As a closing note, you've yet to justify to me how its morally right to threaten a family home, while we pay back billions in unsecured bonds.

lugha

Ghandee wrote: »

A tax on income applies to anyone, legitimately earning an income.

Not quite true. Low earner and SW recipients typically don’t pay tax. But benefit from local services.

Ghandee wrote: »

A home owners only tax is not morally fair as it singles out home owners only. Yet we're being told its to fund local services also (on top of income tax)

Tenants probably will have this tax passed on to them so the people who will not be paying will typically be the same ones who make no contribution via income tax. So why are you unbothered that they don’t make an income tax contribution but hoppin’ mad that they don’t make a property tax one?

And of course, there are plenty (all?) of taxes than singles out particular groups only. It is equally immoral that multiple property owners only have to pay NPPR tax? Or if we introduce a wealth tax, will it be immoral that only the wealthy pay? Is it immoral that motorists total contribution in taxes exceeds the cost of the maintaining the road network? Etc.

I’m still not seeing anything about a home that sets it apart morally from anything else.

Ghandee wrote: »

As a closing note, you've yet to justify to me how its morally right to threaten a family home, while we pay back billions in unsecured bonds.

No I don’t because I don’t claim it is morally right. FWIW, I don’t expect, or favour, a property tax that would see people removed from their homes because the can’t, as opposed to won’t, pay.

darkhorse

Izzy Skint wrote: »

totally agree, going to switch off for a few hours, may even allow myself the luxury of a few pints later ! ...hope you day goes well and enjoy !:)

At least you can feel good in the knowledge that you will be contributing to the exchequer while you enjoy a few pints.:D

Ghandee

lugha wrote: »

No I don’t because I don’t claim it is morally right.

Great, so we're in agreement so?

After All, last time i looked, if somethings not right, its usually 'wrong'.

Hijpo

dvpower wrote: »

Hijpo wrote: »

i was just having a look at the other forums i subscribe to after finishing a night shift of overtime to get money to send my son to preschool. so like so many others my OT is to pay for education or the little bit more to pay there mortgage etc etc not to have a piss up or have a good time.

Since you depend on the overtime, a property tax, rather than income tax rises that will eat into it would probably be more beneficial to you.

ill still be paying for his education and my bin collection and his doctors visits etc etc on top of the property tax so ill probably be doing OT anyway. ill be worked into the ground, me partner already works 39 hours aswell, i dont know how we are going to raise our own child with me doing OT and my partner workong aswell.
so ill be paying a property tax AND more PAYE, id say your sitting there rubbing your greedy mits together like monty burns.

ah sure, what can i do about it, not.enough people willing to stand together. SF want a united ireland? they could do wih uniting the republic first.

Le_Dieux

16 hours with no post on this topic....must be some sort of record:D

Cesium Clock

Le_Dieux wrote: »

16 hours with no post on this topic....must be some sort of record:D

Cutbacks

Le_Dieux

Cesium Clock wrote: »

Cutbacks

LOL, or maybe they were ALL at that wedding yesterday CC and forgot to invite us?;)

Invincible

The latest sneaky plan to get the hhc by the government is to send the council house to house checking if you are on the register of electors,when you identify yourself, they ask, "is this your normal place of residence?" When you answer "yes", they hand you an invoice for €100 and head off.

dvpower

Invincible wrote: »

The latest sneaky plan to get the hhc by the government is to send the council house to house checking if you are on the register of electors,when you identify yourself, they ask, "is this your normal place of residence?" When you answer "yes", they hand you an invoice for €100 and head off.

This is a barefaced lie.

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

This is a barefaced lie.

I've read of similar scenarios dv, with the exception of being handed an invoice.

How can you be so sure its lies?

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

How can you be so sure its lies?

There is zero evidence for it and its utterly implausable. I'm 100% confident that it's completly untrue.

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

There is zero evidence for it and its utterly implausable. I'm 100% confident that it's completly untrue.

I've heard the electoral story before, but find it hard to believe you could just be handed an invoice at the front door, once you confirm your name etc.

Personally doubt it myself tbh.

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

I've heard the electoral story before, but find it hard to believe you could just be handed an invoice at the front door, once you confirm your name etc.

Personally doubt it myself tbh.

I've certainly heard of people going around updating the electoral register - that's normal enough. And the electoral register is a public document, so I suppose they could use it for other purposes.
But stories that they were going door to door gathering names for the HHC under the guise of updating the electoral register are just speculation, and could only be speculation.

Handing people HHC invoices? Nah.

TheTurk1972

darkhorse wrote: »

If I may, I would just like to add to his amusement and to anyone that may think this is amusing.

In order to facilate the upcoming levy's/charges/taxes, I had to cancel a standing order today, in which I had been contributing €5 a month to a charity, which I had in place for the last 6 years, in order to try and claw back some money and to try juggle my finances. I also cancelled a life assurance policy, for which I was paying €26 a month. If my calculations are correct, this money, in addition to the disposable income that I presently have, should just about be enough to pay the property tax next year, if I can manage to hold on to it.
I felt a bit guilty at first, having to cancel a s.o. for a p*xy €5, but then I thought to myself, well, that the govt. is still involved in charitable donations, albeit the money is all borrowed, but I am still paying it through my tax, so I dont feel so guilty now.
I hope they find this amuseing.

A friend was telling me yesterday that is cancelling hid DDs to charity too because of higher taxes.

And he thinks the property tax will about equal the amount he pays to Sky every year for TV.
He is changing to freesat and saorview to save that money.

I'm sure sky will love that. But the government will be getting 100% of what was the sky subscription instead of 22%. The only loser is sky. LOL.

ncdadam

Ghandee wrote: »

What?

You lads have money to go out and have a life yet won't sacrifice that cash to pay your hhc?

Traitors. :rolleyes:

Jesus, that JD and coke must have cost myself and the wife at least a HHC last night!

ncdadam

dvpower wrote: »

Since you depend on the overtime, a property tax, rather than income tax rises that will eat into it would probably be more beneficial to you.

That is so delusional that it's even a bit funny, dv you missed your vocation, you should have been a stand up comic!

ncdadam

Invincible wrote: »

The latest sneaky plan to get the hhc by the government is to send the council house to house checking if you are on the register of electors,when you identify yourself, they ask, "is this your normal place of residence?" When you answer "yes", they hand you an invoice for €100 and head off.

Funnily enough, I had a council guy at my door on thursday checking the list and the first thing he said was "don't worry, I'm not looking for money".
Not that I care or anything because as long as some people are exempt and the wastage continues, I won't be paying up, no way.

ncdadam

lugha wrote: »

That is an argument against paying tax, any tax. I am told there is a particular moral argument against taxing the family home that does not apply to other taxes. I’m still waiting for it

Maybe you don't have the correct morals Lugha?
Ever ask yourself that?

Ghandee

Pay up so these lads can live the life they've become accustomed to.

Fund local councils?

This is really what you're funding.

THE country’s 883 city and county councillors benefited from a €28m payments’ windfall last year. An Irish Independent investigation reveals that our part-time politicians were paid an average of €31,600 each in salary, allowances, expenses and fees for sitting on a range of public bodies. Many of these councillors earned this cash on top of their day jobs. However, others hav

e made a full-time living out of what is supposed to be a part-time role. A major trawl of financial records held by almost 200 public bodies revealed very high – but legitimate – pay and expense packages claimed by some councillors. The highest-earning councillor in the country received seven payments totalling €83,000 from five different bodies – his county council and four outside bodies, to which he was nominated by virtue of being a county councillor.

The investigation also reveals: - Councillors racked up huge foreign-travel bills, with more than 100 of them visiting 24 countries on five continents over the course of 2011. - Another €2m was paid to councillors who attended conferences in Ireland.- At least 15 councillors also work as assistants and advisers to TDs and ministers, significantly boosting their incomes.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/revealed-the-pay-and-perks-of-your-local-councillors-3216502.html

ncdadam

Ghandee wrote: »

Pay up so these lads can live the life they've become accustomed to.

Fund local councils?

This is really what you're funding.



http://www.independent.ie/national-news/revealed-the-pay-and-perks-of-your-local-councillors-3216502.html

You gotta laugh!

Am Chile

Invincible wrote: »

The latest sneaky plan to get the hhc by the government is to send the council house to house checking if you are on the register of electors,when you identify yourself, they ask, "is this your normal place of residence?" When you answer "yes", they hand you an invoice for €100 and head off.

TBH this wouldn,t surprise me-I posted about this over a month ago-I had a knock on a door from a council official, I wasn,t given an invoice for the household tax though-my original post.

Heads Up To All Anti Household Tax
Posters




About half 3 I had a knock on the
door from a council official, he would of being his fifties had a clipboard with
him-when I answered the door he said may I ask the names of those living here,
how many living in the house, it for the voting register he said-I told him Im
not answering any of your questions-please leave my property-he left and went
next door-I had the window open and overheard him asking the same questions-I
strongly suspect the whole voting register thing is just an excuse to asked
questions- this is being done as an Intel gathering exercise by the council
gathering further info for next years property tax.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79875821&postcount=5809

dvpower

Am Chile wrote: »

TBH this wouldn,t surprise me-I posted about this over a month ago-I had a knock on a door from a council official, I wasn,t given an invoice for the household tax though-my original post.



http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79875821&postcount=5809

Updating the electoral register is just one of the many services that the LAs provide.
Only the deeply delusional would see it as anything else.

Le_Dieux

dvpower wrote: »

Updating the electoral register is just one of the many services that the LAs provide.
Only the deeply delusional would see it as anything else.

Tell me something DV, why would it be delusional? I persoNally am highly suspicious of the CC folk now. The govt have already said they will resort to giving the collecting to others....Revenue...who is to say they won't use the tactic mentioned above? I have a street light not working outside my house , and will NOT phone them on either my landline, or my mobile, for fear of them using my contact details for their delusional MO.