Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

dxhound2005

ncdadam wrote: »

Do you reckon there were many 'ordinary' depositors in Anglo?

The €600 million bond paid earlier this week was anglo's.

dvpower wrote: »

Yep. Heaps and heaps of them.

ncdadam wrote: »

Show me a source for that.

Depositors now, not shareholders.

By the way, If you think Sean Quinn has 'lost it all' your wrong.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/anglo-irish-bank-gets-new-name-16064089.html?r=RSS

Under the restructuring, 120,000 Anglo deposit customers had accounts holding 8.6 billion euro moved to Allied Irish Banks. About 3.6 billion euro of deposits held by 160,000 Irish Nationwide customers were moved to Irish Life and Permanent.


That would make the average deposit in Anglo about €72,000. It would be fair to assume I think that a good number of the 120,000 depositors would have had under the average.

Chips Lovell

Ghandee wrote: »

Which is where they essentially became 'unsecured' and should've been defaulted on, not a further burden to us tax payers (seeing as how they weren't our debts)

How do they become unsecured? If you default, you still have to pony up with the assets they were secured on, which means IBRC is still out of pocket for €600 million (or possibly more, since they're secured on 60 per cent loan to value for commercial loans).

dvpower

dxhound2005 wrote: »

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/anglo-irish-bank-gets-new-name-16064089.html?r=RSS

Under the restructuring, 120,000 Anglo deposit customers had accounts holding 8.6 billion euro moved to Allied Irish Banks. About 3.6 billion euro of deposits held by 160,000 Irish Nationwide customers were moved to Irish Life and Permanent.


That would make the average deposit in Anglo about €72,000. It would be fair to assume I think that a good number of the 120,000 depositors would have had under the average.

The average from the INBS book would have been much less. 160,000 accounts totalling €3.6bn - that averages €22,500.

ncdadam

dxhound2005 wrote: »

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/anglo-irish-bank-gets-new-name-16064089.html?r=RSS

Under the restructuring, 120,000 Anglo deposit customers had accounts holding 8.6 billion euro moved to Allied Irish Banks. About 3.6 billion euro of deposits held by 160,000 Irish Nationwide customers were moved to Irish Life and Permanent.


That would make the average deposit in Anglo about €72,000. It would be fair to assume I think that a good number of the 120,000 depositors would have had under the average.

I wonder how many of our politicians and developers had major deposits in anglo?
Is it possible to find out?

Bishop_Donal

Budget 2013 (i.e. Dec 2012) predictions:

Taxation measures (Eur1,250m):
- Household Property Tax (average Eur350 per house) = yield 500m
- Excise / Duties (petrol +10c pl; cigs +50c +15c a pint) = yield 250m
- Income Tax (reduce PAYE allowance by 250; pers allow / bands) = yield 500m

Expenditure measures (Eur2,300m):
- Health = Yield 700m
- Social Welfare = Yield 900m (possibly incl USC charge?)
- Education = Yield 300m
- Bits and pieces from wherever = Yield 400m

And the fight will be over:
- The Eur350 property tax.

Ghandee

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

How do they become unsecured? If you default, you still have to pony up with the assets they were secured on, which means IBRC is still out of pocket for €600 million (or possibly more, since they're secured on 60 per cent loan to value for commercial loans).

Did you read my quote?

“Anglo Irish Bank is not getting another cent of our money and any bank coming to us looking for more money is going to have to show how they’re going to impose losses on their junior bondholders, on their senior bondholders and their other creditors before they come looking to us for anymore money. Not another cent.”

ncdadam

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Budget 2013 (i.e. Dec 2012) predictions:

Taxation measures (Eur1,250m):
- Household Property Tax (average Eur350 per house) = yield 500m
- Excise / Duties (petrol +10c pl; cigs +50c +15c a pint) = yield 250m
- Income Tax (reduce PAYE allowance by 250; pers allow / bands) = yield 500m

Expenditure measures (Eur2,300m):
- Health = Yield 700m
- Social Welfare = Yield 900m (possibly incl USC charge?)
- Education = Yield 300m
- Bits and pieces from wherever = Yield 400m

And the fight will be over:
- The Eur350 property tax.

The auld fags, booze and diesel/petrol one is good.

More duty on fags = more money for the smugglers.

More duty on fuel = bigger bills for the LA's to dispose of the sludge left on the side of the roads by diesel launderers.

More duty on booze = more people staying at home with a cheap bottle or two from lidl, forcing pubs to put people on the dole and making smaller VAT returns to the exchequer.

Clever ok.

So we can tax our way out of a recession. NOT!

tayto lover

dvpower wrote: »

Even small depositors?

There were very few if any small depositors with Anglo. They had no high street branches outside of Dublin as far as I can ascertain.
When the Govt decided to save Anglo they knew who they were saving. They probably played golf together and socialized.

Bishop_Donal

ncdadam wrote: »

The auld fags, booze and diesel/petrol one is good.

More duty on fags = more money for the smugglers.

More duty on fuel = bigger bills for the LA's to dispose of the sludge left on the side of the roads by diesel launderers.

More duty on booze = more people staying at home with a cheap bottle or two from lidl, forcing pubs to put people on the dole and making smaller VAT returns to the exchequer.

Clever ok.

So we can tax our way out of a recession. NOT!

Just to be clear, I'm only predicting. Not advocating.

Le_Dieux

Ghandee wrote: »

No doubt he's surviving on koka noodles a-la lidl these days?

Quinn, Fitzpatrick, Fingleton, Drumm, and the fcuking rest......They should all be locked up , and the keys thrown away. They ( along with corrupt 'politicians' ) destroyed this country. As someone already made reference to, those proud, heroic people who spent the night outside DE last night fought over €10M, while these heathens are all housed in sumptuous surroundings.

SHAME ON You and shame on this country!

dvpower

Le_Dieux wrote: »

SHAME ON You and shame on this country!

I don't think Ghandee was involved.:eek:

ncdadam

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Just to be clear, I'm only predicting. Not advocating.

I know that, but your probably not far off the mark.

They'll do well to get €350 out of me in a property tax though....

Ghandee

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Budget 2013 (i.e. Dec 2012) predictions:

Taxation measures (Eur1,250m):
- Household Property Tax (average Eur350 per house) = yield 500m
- Excise / Duties (petrol +10c pl; cigs +50c +15c a pint) = yield 250m
- Income Tax (reduce PAYE allowance by 250; pers allow / bands) = yield 500m

Expenditure measures (Eur2,300m):
- Health = Yield 700m
- Social Welfare = Yield 900m (possibly incl USC charge?)
- Education = Yield 300m
- Bits and pieces from wherever = Yield 400m

And the fight will be over:
- The Eur350 property tax.

Something just not quite right about this post, just can put my finger on it...........


Ah, I know!

Where is the PS/CS salary bill?
Misc unvouched Expenses?
TD's/Ministerial pensions (multiple in some cases)
TD's/Ministers salaries?

etc etc etc etc etc?

It prob just slipped your mind though Bishop. Right?

dvpower

tayto lover wrote: »

There were very few if any small depositors with Anglo. They had no high street branches outside of Dublin as far as I can ascertain.
When the Govt decided to save Anglo they knew who they were saving. They probably played golf together and socialized.

Yeah. Maybe those figures for deposit accounts are all made up.

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

I don't think Ghandee was involved.:eek:

Well, I did buy a bag of Quinn cement a few years back when building a BBQ:D

ncdadam

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Quinn, Fitzpatrick, Fingleton, Drumm, and the fcuking rest......They should all be locked up , and the keys thrown away. They ( along with corrupt 'politicians' ) destroyed this country. As someone already made reference to, those proud, heroic people who spent the night outside DE last night fought over €10M, while these heathens are all housed in sumptuous surroundings.

SHAME ON You and shame on this country!

**** locking them up.
They should be marched up O'Connell street, stood in front of the GPO and shot for treason.

tayto lover

dvpower wrote: »

Yeah. Maybe those figures for deposit accounts are all made up.

Maybe you could provide a list of their branches then.

dvpower

tayto lover wrote: »

Maybe you could provide a list of their branches then.

Look it up yourself, ye lazy git.

Bishop_Donal

Ghandee wrote: »

Something just not quite right about this post, just can put my finger on it...........


Ah, I know!

Where is the PS/CS salary bill?
Misc unvouched Expenses?
TD's/Ministerial pensions (multiple in some cases)
TD's/Ministers salaries?

etc etc etc etc etc?

It prob just slipped your mind though Bishop. Right?

Didn't slip my mind at all. I just don't think they'll be addressed in the coming budget. Are you suggesting that if you were predicting the budget that you would be factoring those in?

If you want me to set out what my alternative budget would be, I will!

Ghandee

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Didn't slip my mind at all. I just don't think they'll be addressed in the coming budget. Are you suggesting that if you were predicting the budget that you would be factoring those in?

If you want me to set out what my alternative budget would be, I will!

I just think if we're comparing income v outcome it would make sense to mention those figures too?

ncdadam

dvpower wrote: »

Yeah. Maybe those figures for deposit accounts are all made up.

It was known as the developers bank and I'm sure a few of your favourite type of people, politicians, had a few quid in there.

I'd love to see a list of the depositors in that corrupt bank, it might explain why we were bounced into the guarantee on that faithful night in 2008.

Bishop_Donal

Ghandee wrote: »

I just think if we're comparing income v outcome it would make sense to mention those figures too?

I don't think you have grasped my post at all.

I simply set out my predictions for the forthcoming budget. I'm not offering any view on the rights or wrongs of it.

The only other comment that I am making is that I guess the biggest hassle (notwithstanding the relatively small magnitude in the overall context) will stem from the property tax charge.

Chips Lovell

Ghandee wrote: »

Did you read my quote?

I did. But it doesn't explain how you think IBRC can avoid paying back what is essentially a secured bond?

Let me put it this way, if you were minister for finance, what would you have done with yesterday's bond repayment?

tayto lover

dvpower wrote: »

Look it up yourself, ye lazy git.

Fcuk all except a few in Dublin which expels the myth that they had many ordinary customers. It was run by the nobs for the nobs.

chrome://newtabhttp//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo_Irish_Bank

Ghandee

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I did. But it doesn't explain how you think IBRC can avoid paying back what is essentially a secured bond?

Let me put it this way, if you were minister for finance, what would you have done with yesterday's bond repayment?

I would have told the truth.

The countries bankrupt, we're on our knees, we cant afford to pay this back. Not another red cent!

We have a very popular saying up round my neck of the woods,:

'You can't take knickers off a bare ass'.

Chips Lovell

Ghandee wrote: »

I would have told the truth.

The countries bankrupt, we're on our knees, we cant afford to pay this back. Not another red cent!

We have a very popular saying up round my neck of the woods,:

'You can't take knickers off a bare ass'.

OK. And then the bondholders claim the assets that loan is secured on, which are worth at least €600 million. So either way, you're down €600 million.

dvpower

tayto lover wrote: »

Fcuk all except a few in Dublin which expels the myth that they had many ordinary customers. It was run by the nobs for the nobs.

chrome://newtabhttp//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo_Irish_Bank

Don't ordinary customers come from Dublin too?

They always had very competitive rates for depositors and advertised them widely. The average deposit account when the book was taken over by AIB had under €75k - hardly nobs.

Ghandee

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

I don't think you have grasped my post at all.

I simply set out my predictions for the forthcoming budget. I'm not offering any view on the rights or wrongs of it.

The only other comment that I am making is that I guess the biggest hassle (notwithstanding the relatively small magnitude in the overall context) will stem from the property tax charge.

Ok, sorry I possibly took you up wrongly.

I thought you were saying how we were whinging about a property tax (in the grand scale of things) when our income was so small v what the outgoing would be.

Sorry.

ncdadam

dvpower wrote: »

Don't ordinary customers come from Dublin too?

They always had very competitive rates for depositors and advertised them widely. The average deposit account when the book was taken over by AIB had under €75k - hardly nobs.

Jesus dv, you sound like an add for anglo......

Ghandee

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

OK. And then the bondholders claim the assets that loan is secured on, which are worth at least €600 million. So either way, you're down €600 million.

I still do not understand where these assets would come from though?
Had Anglo, as a privately owned bank been allowed to fail, the bondholders and other creditors should have been left to fight amongst themselves over what scraps were left (assets etc)

This would have cost the state and tax payers how much in that scenario?

(/i'm genuinely asking, not being smart vlad)