Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

Chips Lovell

Ghandee wrote: »

I still do not understand where these assets would come from though?
Had Anglo, as a privately owned bank been allowed to fail, the bondholders and other creditors should have been left to fight amongst themselves over what scraps were left (assets etc)

This would have cost the state and tax payers how much in that scenario?

(/i'm genuinely asking, not being smart vlad)

IBRC still has assets. Its loan book was generating interest revenues €1.2 billion in the first half of this year for example. So if it defaulted on this bond repayment, some of those loans (which are in turn secured on private assets) would have had to be surrendered.

In this instance, if you'd let Anglo fail, that bond would have been repaid in one way or another.

Paying back unsecured bondholders is another matter and there are arguments for that (although any kind of default has consequences), but in this instance there's now way around it.

Le_Dieux

ncdadam wrote: »

**** locking them up.
They should be marched up O'Connell street, stood in front of the GPO and shot for treason.

NC, if all the predictions about the upcoming budget are to be believed, I fear for this country, more so than now even.

I honestly can see civil unrest on the streets, the people just can't take ANY FCUKING MORE!!! I know I can't.

As said elsewhere, we are SCREWED!!!

ncdadam

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

IBRC still has assets. Its loan book was generating interest revenues €1.2 billion in the first half of this year for example. So if it defaulted on this bond repayment, some of those loans (which are in turn secured on private assets) would have had to be surrendered.

In this instance, if you'd let Anglo fail, that bond would have been repaid in one way or another.

Paying back unsecured bondholders is another matter and there are arguments for that (although any kind of default has consequences), but in this instance there's now way around it.

We seen the consequences of not defaulting in the last 24 hours.
People in wheelchairs, some of the most vulnerable in our society having to spend the night outside leinster house fighting for their lives.

ncdadam

Le_Dieux wrote: »

NC, if all the predictions about the upcoming budget are to be believed, I fear for this country, more so than now even.

I honestly can see civil unrest on the streets, the people just can't take ANY FCUKING MORE!!! I know I can't.

As said elsewhere, we are SCREWED!!!

That's why the budget is always at the start of winter, the bad weather will keep the protesters off the streets;)
Joking dv, before you mount that horse again...

Slick50

'ALL that has been decided," protested the Minister for Finance Michael Noonan dismissively last week,"is that there will be a property tax on family homes and that property tax will be collected by the Revenue Commissioners."

So the property tax will be collected by the Revenue Commissioners, and distributed from central funds.... so why not just call it for what it is, a tax increase. We'll be back exactly where we were... albeit with a skewed p.a.y.e. system, and some self employed using tax loopholes to avoid paying it.

ncdadam

Slick50 wrote: »

So the property tax will be collected by the Revenue Commissioners, and distributed from central funds.... so why not just call it for what it is, a tax increase. We'll be back exactly where we were... albeit with a skewed p.a.y.e. system, and some self employed using tax loopholes to avoid paying it.

Their program for government states that there will be no income tax increases so there'll be increases in the USC and in PRSI and a widening of the tax bands but no increase in income tax.
They must think we're stupid, maybe we are though because we elected them.

Slick50

ncdadam wrote: »

Their program for government states that there will be no income tax increases so there'll be increases in the USC and in PRSI and a widening of the tax bands but no increase in income tax.

They wouldn't want to be seen to go back on their word... bunch of c*nts.

Next they'll be telling us we can't expect to get all these services for free... again! Just before they come up with some other sh*te tax(es).

ncdadam wrote: »

They must think we're stupid, maybe we are though because we elected them.

We were left with hobson's choice.

ncdadam

Slick50 wrote: »

We were left with hobson's choice.

That's the really sad part.

bgrizzley

seems the LGMA are dipping into peoples accounts for a little extra, give em an inch...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/thousands-receive-household-tax-refund-206851.html

The repayments came as the agency struggles to cope with more than 6,000 complaints from homeowners regarding excessive amounts deducted from bank accounts. This will lead to more refunds being paid to potentially thousands of property owners.

ncdadam

bgrizzley wrote: »

seems the LGMA are dipping into peoples accounts for a little extra, give em an inch...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/thousands-receive-household-tax-refund-206851.html

The repayments came as the agency struggles to cope with more than 6,000 complaints from homeowners regarding excessive amounts deducted from bank accounts. This will lead to more refunds being paid to potentially thousands of property owners.

Not being able to organise a piss up in a brewery comes to mind...

Looking forward to the council guy calling to my property!

Hijpo

What will start happening now is an increase in people not paying towards grass cutting and maintenance in residents associations to pay the property tax and entire housing estates will go to ****e.

darkhorse

ncdadam wrote: »

Their program for government states that there will be no income tax increases so there'll be increases in the USC and in PRSI and a widening of the tax bands but no increase in income tax.
They must think we're stupid, maybe we are though because we elected them.

Just to put irony in perspective, nc, a couple of weeks ago on this thread, one of the posters who was promoting the payment of a tax on my so called cash generating asset, ie. my home, mildly argued with me that it would not be as much as a burden on me to pay a property tax as it would to actually rise the amount of income tax that I am paying. But, I am a bit slow on the uptake, therefore, I just can't seem to understand, how would paying, for example, €10 per week from my income for a property tax, be any different to paying €10 per week from my income on income tax. I am just more confused now, after reading a story in the indo., in which Minister Hogan say's---
"We do not want to impose any additional tax burden on people at work"

ncdadam

darkhorse wrote: »

"We do not want to impose any additional tax burden on people at work"

What hogan meant was 'we want to impose an additional tax burden on people who work hard to keep the roof over their family's head'.

darkhorse

darkhorse wrote: »

Just to put irony in perspective, nc, a couple of weeks ago on this thread, one of the posters who was promoting the payment of a tax on my so called cash generating asset, ie. my home, mildly argued with me that it would not be as much as a burden on me to pay a property tax as it would to actually rise the amount of income tax that I am paying. But, I am a bit slow on the uptake, therefore, I just can't seem to understand, how would paying, for example, €10 per week from my income for a property tax, be any different to paying €10 per week from my income on income tax. I am just more confused now, after reading a story in the indo., in which Minister Hogan say's---
"We do not want to impose any additional tax burden on people at work"

ncdadam wrote: »

What hogan meant was 'we want to impose an additional tax burden on people who work hard to keep the roof over their family's head'.

I am really suprised that there is no-one here yet defending big Phil's philosofy:):). Especially considering that one of the colleague's of the poster that I talk about actually told me here on boards that I was pretending when I mentioned that I would find it very tight to be in any position to afford to pay a property tax. He must know something that I don't. He must know something that the people on psychics live(who I phoned and they more or less told me that there is nothing on the horizon for me except bills and taxes)don't know.

Ghandee

darkhorse wrote: »

I am really suprised that there is no-one here yet defending big Phil's philosofy:):). Especially considering that one of the colleague's of the poster that I talk about actually told me here on boards that I was pretending when I mentioned that I would find it very tight to be in any position to afford to pay a property tax. He must know something that I don't. He must know something that the people on psychics live(who I phoned and they more or less told me that there is nothing on the horizon for me except bills and taxes)don't know.

Due to insufficient hhc collection's, the council has decided to turn the bat signal off this evening. :pac:

Slick50

darkhorse wrote: »

I am really suprised that there is no-one here yet defending big Phil's philosofy:):).

That's because you can't defend the indefensible, though they'll probably be along to try shortly anyhow. Reverting back to central collection just proves what a crock of sh*te the justification of this tax was. (that we can't expect to keep getting these services for "free")

darkhorse wrote: »

the people on psychics live(who I phoned and they more or less told me that there is nothing on the horizon for me except bills and taxes)don't know.

Marvellous service they provide:cool:, it's a wonder they didn't foretell "death and taxes" in your future.

bgrizzley

http://www.herald.ie/news/taxpayers-face-8m-bill-for-collecting-household-charge-3223442.html

.
lets see now, 8 million divided by E100. Hmm, isnt that the revenue from 80,000 people who have paid this tax? good to know the money is being spent wisely

feck, 8million and thats just for sending letters. wait till they have to start paying solicitors, judges, barristers, etc. they'll have to have to invent a new Household Charge Evader Collection Tax (the HCECT) on top of the HHC just to break even.

donalg1

Surprised nobody has put this up yet, I have extracted the first few lines of the article and pasted them below, to read the full article in the Irish Times follow this LINK

THE PROPERTY tax will be pitched at 0.25 per cent of current house value, a Government source has predicted.
The source said the new tax to replace the €100 household charge “would not be a million miles away” from the example cited in an ESRI report focusing on a tax rate in the region of €2.50 to €3 per €1,000 of house value.
A rate in this region is geared to bring in revenue of about €500 million per year. The report published in April also recommended exemptions for the low-paid.

ncdadam

donalg1 wrote: »

Surprised nobody has put this up yet, I have extracted the first few lines of the article and pasted them below, to read the full article in the Irish Times follow this LINK

I've seen that you're one of the strong supporters of property taxes on this thread.
So I'd like to hear your thoughts on these couple of points.
Who will value your house donlag1?
How much do you reckon it's worth?
Do you think it's a good idea that people who live in the Dublin area will once again be taking the biggest hit?
Do you think it's right that someone in a 2 bed apartment in south Dublin will be paying more than someone in a 5 bed detached house in Caven?
Do you think it's right that developers can still sit on land banks without paying a property tax because it's based on house value rather than site value?
Will you still be happy when they increase the percentage rate of the house value to suit economic conditions?

I've plenty more questions for posters here who love the property tax but I'll start with these.

opinionated3

IMF now proposing a property tax that would see a house valued at 200000€ charged an annual tax of 1000€. We are all screwed cos none of us have the balls to stand up to this crowd.

donalg1

ncdadam wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

Surprised nobody has put this up yet, I have extracted the first few lines of the article and pasted them below, to read the full article in the Irish Times follow this LINK

I've seen that you're one of the strong supporters of property taxes on this thread.
So I'd like to hear your thoughts on these couple of points.
Who will value your house donlag1?
How much do you reckon it's worth?
Do you think it's a good idea that people who live in the Dublin area will once again be taking the biggest hit?
Do you think it's right that someone in a 2 bed apartment in south Dublin will be paying more than someone in a 5 bed detached house in Caven?
Do you think it's right that developers can still sit on land banks without paying a property tax because it's based on house value rather than site value?
Will you still be happy when they increase the percentage rate of the house value to suit economic conditions?

I've plenty more questions for posters here who love the property tax but I'll start with these.

Really I'm a strong supporter am I? I don't think so as I have said all along I would rather not have to pay it so I don't see how that means I support it.

Ghandee

donalg1 wrote: »

Surprised nobody has put this up yet, I have extracted the first few lines of the article and pasted them below, to read the full article in the Irish Times follow this LINK

Hopefully it won't see the light of day regardless, but anyway, the IMF are trying to pressurise the govt for DOUBLE the suggested percentage of house value.

The International Monetary Fund (IMF) says the rate of the new property tax should be twice what the government is currently suggesting.

In its latest report on the Irish bailout the IMF says 0.5% is a suitable figure for the tax which is double the 0.25% figure put forward over the weekend.

It would see the owners of a €200,000 home paying a tax of €1,000.

It is also putting pressure on the government to clamp down on social welfare payments and is urging them to introduce means-testing for child benefit.

http://www.newstalk.ie/2012/news/imf-wants-property-tax-twice-as-high-as-government/


They won't be happy until were in rags, scrounging for scraps of food on the street.

All to pay back a bail out the ordinary people didn't ask for, nor create the problem that meant we needed one to begin with.

tayto lover

The time is quickly coming when the people of this country will take to the streets in earnest and take the reins back from the servants of the I.M.F. A population will only take so much punishment and will revolt and that time is coming soon.

Still refusing to pay other people's debts.

Ghandee

tayto lover wrote: »

The time is quickly coming when the people of this country will take to the streets in earnest and take the reins back from the servants of the I.M.F. A population will only take so much punishment and will revolt and that time is coming soon.

Still refusing to pay other people's debts.

Chucky the tree

Good to see the clueless still knocking around here. I can only hope the IMF ideas are implemented, unlikely unfortunately.

tayto lover

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Good to see the clueless still knocking around here. I can only hope the IMF ideas are implemented, unlikely unfortunately.

I hope they try it. The quicker it comes to a head the better.

Ghandee

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Good to see the clueless still knocking around here. I can only hope the IMF ideas are implemented, unlikely unfortunately.

Clueless is someone who doesn't understand the laws of averages.

Chucky the tree

tayto lover wrote: »

I hope they try it. The quicker it comes to a head the better.

Before what comes to a head?

Ghandee wrote: »

Clueless is someone who doesn't understand the laws of averages.

Like yourself Ghanee, glad to see you admit it at least. First step to improving but looking at the last few pages it'll take a long time before you take that second step.

tayto lover

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Good to see the clueless still knocking around here. I can only hope the IMF ideas are implemented, unlikely unfortunately.

I see your boss announcing the Tidy Towns winners. He doesn't look well the poor man.

Chucky the tree

tayto lover wrote: »

I see your boss announcing the Tidy Towns winners. He doesn't look well the poor man.

No idea who you are talking about but my guess is Fine Gael? You're obsessed with them, it's very unhealthy.