Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

Options
1…251252254256257…332

Comments

  • Options
    #7592
    Izzy Skint
    Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭Izzy Skint


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    The head of Guinness was paid £11 million last year. Do you think he could do with a little bit less and pay the cleaners in his Irish operations a little more? The private sector likes to justify these ridiculous salaries by saying talent must be rewarded. But there is no way that the head of a drinks company is worth 30 or 40 times what the President of the USA gets, not in my book at least.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2012/0906/business/diageo-chiefs-salary-doubles-to-11m-as-shares-soar-206548.html

    What is the govt's take on every pint sold?....how much revenue do the drinks industry pay to the govt. every year?


  • Options
    #7593
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,962 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    mikom wrote: »
    Wtf has that got to do the household charge?

    Straws......... grasped.

    Read back and see how the discussion developed.


  • Options
    #7594
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,962 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Izzy Skint wrote: »
    What is the govt's take on every pint sold?....how much revenue do the drinks industry pay to the govt. every year?

    They get a lot of revenue from alcohol, tobacco and gambling. But a lot is expended dealing with the problems caused by those industries.


  • Options
    #7595
    ncdadam
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 598 ✭✭✭ncdadam


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    The head of Guinness was paid £11 million last year. Do you think he could do with a little bit less and pay the cleaners in his Irish operations a little more? The private sector likes to justify these ridiculous salaries by saying talent must be rewarded. But there is no way that the head of a drinks company is worth 30 or 40 times what the President of the USA gets, not in my book at least.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2012/0906/business/diageo-chiefs-salary-doubles-to-11m-as-shares-soar-206548.html

    Guinness is a highly profitable private company.
    IBRC (anglo) is failed bank that almost bankrupted the country and is being wound down at our expense.
    Bit of a difference I think you'll agree.


  • Options
    #7596
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    lugha wrote: »
    I am not goading anyone. I am pointing out that there is a serious problem with adopting the line that you should have the right (!) not to abide by our tax laws, provided you genuinely feel the law is not fair.
    /QUOTE]

    But, lugha, 600,000 citizens felt that it is not fair. Thats govt. figures, so it might be more. Thats very nearly half of those liable to pay it.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7597
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    darkhorse wrote: »
    But, lugha, 600,000 citizens felt that it is not fair. Thats govt. figures, so it might be more. Thats very nearly half of those liable to pay it.
    No. 600,000 or so did not pay. You are simply speculating that they did not do so because they think it unfair. I could equally well speculate that they are not paying (yet) because there are no serious penalties for paying late and they are hoping the whole think will simply fail.

    The government have remained fairly popular through the year, which suggests to me that there isn't any great groundswell of popular opinion against a property tax in principle.

    People don't like having to pay higher taxes but I think most people accept that it is a measure we have to take.


  • Options
    #7598
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Seriously you are still trying to deny that la's budgets are being cut as a result of people not paying the hhc. I didn't think anyone thought that but there's always one I suppose.

    Wrong. There is a hellofalot more than one here that would not give a lot of credibility to what this govt. says.:(


  • Options
    #7599
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    lugha wrote: »
    Yes, a property tax will have an adverse effect on the economy. But so too would any tax as it too will remove money from the economy. But other taxes, like income tax, will have additional undesirable effects, so it is more the case that a property tax is the least worst rather than the best option.

    And ditto if social welfare payments are cut and if public sector salaries and even jobs are cut. Both will result in less money in the economy. But all of these measures will have to be taken because we have no real choice (And not because of the Troika. We would be in substantially worse trouble were it not for them)

    But we can’t do nothing. If we refused to address our deficit the our lenders of last resort would simply not lend to us and then we would be looking to make a ~ 15 billion adjustment in one year rather than a measly (!) 3-4 billion one.

    Contrary to what some like to believe there is simply no way out of the mess we are in that will not hammer ordinary workers.

    OK, lugha, you do have somewhat of a point there, but HAMMER everybody equally.


  • Options
    #7600
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    lugha wrote: »
    No. 600,000 or so did not pay. You are simply speculating that they did not do so because they think it unfair. I could equally well speculate that they are not paying (yet) because there are no serious penalties for paying late and they are hoping the whole think will simply fail.

    The government have remained fairly popular through the year, which suggests to me that there isn't any great groundswell of popular opinion against a property tax in principle.

    People don't like having to pay higher taxes but I think most people accept that it is a measure we have to take.


    If this post is suppose to resemble some sort of an answer to my post, it don't make sense. I will just put it down to tiredness.


  • Options
    #7601
    Le_Dieux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Le_Dieux


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Highlighted above for you there ncdadam. Personally I dont think it is funny that people with disabilities are losing out on services because people wont pay their HHC.


    Source please!


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7602
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Read back and see how the discussion developed.

    I believe it started when you compared the top brass of Paddy powers take home pay, with that of Enda Kennys.

    On a side note, here is another example of Tax evasion, with a little bit of drunk driving thrown in for good measure by a FG councillor, who, as a result will give up his two separate positions :cool:.
    LONG-SERVING Fine Gael councillor has stepped down from two key council roles after being detained by Gardai on suspicion of drink driving.
    Cllr Michael Hegarty (51) – a married father of four – has resigned as chairman of the Joint Policing Committee on Cork Co Council. He has also resigned as leader of the FG group on the council, one of Ireland’s biggest local authorities.

    Mr Hegarty confirmed the resignation as he said he did not feel in proper for him to continue in light “of an issue (which) had arisen with a road traffic matter.” He declined to comment further. It is understood that Mr Hegarty was detained on August 21 last at Ballymacoda, not far from his east Cork home, on suspicion of drink driving.

    Mr Hegarty – who is an auctioneer by profession – was also listed last month in Stubbs Gazette as owing €81,823 to the Revenue Commissioners. That followed a High Court case on August 16 which involved the Collector General’s arm of the Revenue Commissioners. Mr Hegarty has since said that he is working on a repayment process with Revenue.

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/leading-fine-gael-councillor-quits-chair-after-drink-driving-arrest-3226591.html

    Tut tut tut......

    Can't believe i missed that story on tues.....


  • Options
    #7603
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,962 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    It started before that with an assertion that every public service worker was being paid €300 more than their private sector equvalent, which I pointed out was a misinterpretation of the figures. But it is a side issue and nothing to do with the HHC.

    I am happy to let the judicial system take its course in any case of criminality. You actively encourage people to continue breaking the law.


  • Options
    #7604
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Le_Dieux wrote: »
    Source please!

    You want a source really, hows about Phil Hogan has said this would happen, yes this was most likely to coerce people to paying, however County and City Managers have said its happening and County Councillors have also said it is happening. Why would a Councillor tell people the LA's budgets are being cut if it wasnt true, they wouldnt want to coerce people into paying it as this would be detrimental to their chances at the next election dont you think.

    Unless you have been living under a rock for the last six months you will have seen countless articles stating the LA's budgets are being affected by non payment of the HHC.


  • Options
    #7605
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    donalg1 wrote: »
    You want a source really, hows about Phil Hogan has said this would happen, yes this was most likely to coerce people to paying, however County and City Managers have said its happening and County Councillors have also said it is happening. Why would a Councillor tell people the LA's budgets are being cut if it wasnt true, they wouldnt want to coerce people into paying it as this would be detrimental to their chances at the next election dont you think.






    Like the way this spoof might come back to haunt them in the next elections?


  • Options
    #7606
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    It started before that with an assertion that every public service worker was being paid €300 more than their private sector equvalent, which I pointed out was a misinterpretation of the figures. But it is a side issue and nothing to do with the HHC.

    I am happy to let the judicial system take its course in any case of criminality. You actively encourage people to continue breaking the law.

    I think the assertion was made, that on average, the take home pay was three hundred more per week.

    Some of the pro tax folk on here seem to have trouble understanding the term average.


  • Options
    #7607
    flutered
    Registered Users Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭flutered


    donalg1 wrote: »
    You want a source really, hows about Phil Hogan has said this would happen, yes this was most likely to coerce people to paying, however County and City Managers have said its happening and County Councillors have also said it is happening. Why would a Councillor tell people the LA's budgets are being cut if it wasnt true,

    of cource they have a vested interest, which is caller renumeration and expenses, it also happens both are out of touch with reallity.


  • Options
    #7608
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    donalg1 wrote: »
    You want a source really, hows about Phil Hogan has said this would happen, yes this was most likely to coerce people to paying, however County and City Managers have said its happening and County Councillors have also said it is happening. Why would a Councillor tell people the LA's budgets are being cut if it wasnt true,
    flutered wrote: »
    [of cource they have a vested interest, which is caller renumeration and expenses, it also happens both are out of touch with reallity.

    Point is the budgets are being cut as a result of the HHC. Some around here refuse to believe this, probably because if they accepted this to be true they would have to admit responsibility for some people going without services they otherwise would have got.


  • Options
    #7609
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,760 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    lugha wrote: »
    No. 600,000 or so did not pay. You are simply speculating that they did not do so because they think it unfair. I could equally well speculate that they are not paying (yet) because there are no serious penalties for paying late and they are hoping the whole think will simply fail.

    The government have remained fairly popular through the year, which suggests to me that there isn't any great groundswell of popular opinion against a property tax in principle.

    People don't like having to pay higher taxes but I think most people accept that it is a measure we have to take.

    Please get this into your head.
    The Govt only remained popular because F.F. are the only alternative at present. To think otherwise is folly in the extreme.


  • Options
    #7610
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Ghandee wrote: »
    I think the assertion was made, that on average, the take home pay was three hundred more per week.

    Some of the pro tax folk on here seem to have trouble understanding the term average.

    That may be so but it was average Gross Pay, whereas the actual gap between the average take home pay or nett pay was a lot lower. Under €100 iirc.


  • Options
    #7611
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,823 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    ncdadam wrote: »
    The head of IBRC (anglo), owned by the taxpayer earned €863,000 last year.

    The head of Guinness was paid £11 million last year. Do you think he could do with a little bit less and pay the cleaners in his Irish operations a little more? The private sector likes to justify these ridiculous salaries by saying talent must be rewarded. But there is no way that the head of a drinks company is worth 30 or 40 times what the President of the USA gets, not in my book at least.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2012/0906/business/diageo-chiefs-salary-doubles-to-11m-as-shares-soar-206548.html

    11 million without the perks of a public sector fat cat. From that 11 million he will pay for his lixuries the government wont use my taxes to pay for them. Just because a public sector fat cat doesnt earn as much as a private sector big wig doesnt mean that he is less well off when it comes to his quality of life.

    Also what does a private sector top earner have remotely to do with the payment of our taxes to run our country? It private he went to college got his job climed his ladder, if he did a **** job he would get fired and probably not got any further. Compare that to the job security in the public sector. A chap loses, what was it, 3.6 billion and then they try get him promoted to a european board of auditors.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7612
    flutered
    Registered Users Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭flutered


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Point is the budgets are being cut as a result of the HHC. Some around here refuse to believe this, probably because if they accepted this to be true they would have to admit responsibility for some people going without services they otherwise would have got.

    i do not have a road with a tarred surface, i do not have a road without potholes, i do not have street lighting, i do pay for refuse collection 276 each year, i pay for water 150 each year, i do have a septic tank, this has been replaced as has the percelation area three years ago, 2.7k was the cost, new guttering has been installed so as the rainwater will not enter the septic tank, what services has or will be withdrawn from me due to non payment of these charges pray tell, a lot of the posts on here are as a result of mefeinism, being afraid that ones services will be cut, nothing else.


  • Options
    #7613
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,962 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Ghandee wrote: »
    I think the assertion was made, that on average, the take home pay was three hundred more per week.

    Some of the pro tax folk on here seem to have trouble understanding the term average.

    I explained why the average would be lower. I understand average but the person who posted this obviously doesn't or it was just done to mislead.

    If people aren't happy getting on average €300 more weekly than the same person in the private sector then they know where the dole office is. There's 450,000 people out there who'd gladly replace them.


  • Options
    #7614
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    flutered wrote: »
    i do not have a road with a tarred surface, i do not have a road without potholes, i do not have street lighting, i do pay for refuse collection 276 each year, i pay for water 150 each year, i do have a septic tank, this has been replaced as has the percelation area three years ago, 2.7k was the cost, new guttering has been installed so as the rainwater will not enter the septic tank, what services has or will be withdrawn from me due to non payment of these charges pray tell, a lot of the posts on here are as a result of mefeinism, being afraid that ones services will be cut, nothing else.

    I am not talking about services to you, I am talking about services to people in need of them. Those in less fortunate positions than yourself, the type of people that depend on LA services.


  • Options
    #7615
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    flutered wrote: »
    i do not have a road with a tarred surface, i do not have a road without potholes, i do not have street lighting, i do pay for refuse collection 276 each year, i pay for water 150 each year, i do have a septic tank, this has been replaced as has the percelation area three years ago, 2.7k was the cost, new guttering has been installed so as the rainwater will not enter the septic tank, what services has or will be withdrawn from me due to non payment of these charges pray tell, a lot of the posts on here are as a result of mefeinism, being afraid that ones services will be cut, nothing else.
    donalg1 wrote: »
    I am not talking about services to you, I am talking about services to people in need of them. Those in less fortunate positions than yourself, the type of people that depend on LA services.

    I think what you mean, donal, is those more fortunate than him, unless you did'nt read his post, or you are taking a different meaning from it.


  • Options
    #7616
    ncdadam
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 598 ✭✭✭ncdadam


    I still haven't seen a source showing that grants for the disabled have been cut as a direct result of people not paying the HHC.
    These grants as far as I can see have been reducing since 2007/8 when the economy collapsed.
    Also, the grants are funded from central government and administered by the local council.
    So to directly blame people who won't pay the HHC is a joke, you may as well blame the guy who won't pay his road tax or TV license etc.


  • Options
    #7617
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    darkhorse wrote: »
    I think what you mean, donal, is those more fortunate than him, unless you did'nt read his post, or you are taking a different meaning from it.

    I am taking a different meaning from it as he seems to be very self sufficient and in a position to provide all of the services he uses himself without having to rely on the Council.


  • Options
    #7618
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    ncdadam wrote: »
    I still haven't seen a source showing that grants for the disabled have been cut as a direct result of people not paying the HHC.
    These grants as far as I can see have been reducing since 2007/8 when the economy collapsed.
    Also, the grants are funded from central government and administered by the local council.
    So to directly blame people who won't pay the HHC is a joke, you may as well blame the guy who won't pay his road tax or TV license etc.

    Oh right ok sure if thats what you think anyway, dont know how you missed the thousand articles saying that the funding was being cut as a direct result of the poor collection of the HHC. Here are a few for you to start on the rest I will let you find yourself if and when you decide to come out from under your rock.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0723/1224320625507.html

    http://www.thescore.ie/household-charge-payments-budget-cuts-local-councils-526290-Jul2012/

    http://www.offalyindependent.ie/news/roundup/articles/2012/07/19/4011426-nonpayment-of-household-charge-sees-15m-slashed-from-council-budget/

    So just so you are aware I will continue to directly blame those that havent paid the HHC for the reduction in services in the LA's.


  • Options
    #7619
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,760 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Oh right ok sure if thats what you think anyway, dont know how you missed the thousand articles saying that the funding was being cut as a direct result of the poor collection of the HHC. Here are a few for you to start on the rest I will let you find yourself if and when you decide to come out from under your rock.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0723/1224320625507.html

    http://www.thescore.ie/household-charge-payments-budget-cuts-local-councils-526290-Jul2012/

    http://www.offalyindependent.ie/news/roundup/articles/2012/07/19/4011426-nonpayment-of-household-charge-sees-15m-slashed-from-council-budget/

    So just so you are aware I will continue to directly blame those that havent paid the HHC for the reduction in services in the LA's.

    This is just a very poor attempt by the Govt to try and "encourage" the non HHC payers to comply. Next we will see a few Council workers being told they are on a 3 day week or the like. All tactics.
    If they were short then why didn't they just deduct the money from that directed at the unguaranteed bondholders and let them wait? Or are those people untouchable or too close and pally with some of our ministers?
    At least 600 thousand home owners can see through their scam.


  • Options
    #7620
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    tayto lover wrote: »
    This is just a very poor attempt by the Govt to try and "encourage" the non HHC payers to comply. Next we will see a few Council workers being told they are on a 3 day week or the like. All tactics.
    If they were short then why didn't they just deduct the money from that directed at the unguaranteed bondholders and let them wait? Or are those people untouchable or too close and pally with some of our ministers?
    At least 600 thousand home owners can see through their scam.

    Ah well I was asked to provide a link showing that it was reported and that is what I did. Cllr Plunkett in Offaly has said that grants for the disabled could be hit as a result of this which is what ncdadam asked me to show him. Now why a Cllr would be trying to coerce the majority of his constituents into paying is beyond me as this would no doubt affect his chances of being re-elected. Now I am not from Offaly so dont know anything about him so maybe he is not intending to run again.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7621
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,760 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Ah well I was asked to provide a link showing that it was reported and that is what I did. Cllr Plunkett in Offaly has said that grants for the disabled could be hit as a result of this which is what ncdadam asked me to show him. Now why a Cllr would be trying to coerce the majority of his constituents into paying is beyond me as this would no doubt affect his chances of being re-elected. Now I am not from Offaly so dont know anything about him so maybe he is not intending to run again.

    Maybe it's just my suspicious mind and distrust of politicians in general, wherever that came from !!!


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement