Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

tayto lover

lugha wrote: »

Their popularity is reflected in opinion polls. Are you seriously suggesting that there are people polled that are unhappy with how the government are running the country but would still tell a pollster that they would vote for them? Of course they wouldn’t, don’t be silly.

And there is an alternative. There is a sizable number of TDs, including your pal Mick, who are actively opposed to the HHC / property tax.


If you referring to Michael Hegarty, there is little out there about the circumstances of his tax liabilities. But it certainly does appear that, unlike Reilly, there are no consortium complications and he was solely responsible for making sure he was tax compliant, which seemingly he did not do.

So assuming this is indeed the case and he has made a conscious decision to violate our tax laws then I have no hesitation is putting him a couple of rungs above you on the ethical ladder.

And if you can cite any evidence that he is actively and hypocritically criticising other people for violating our tax laws then I would push him further down and put him on the very same level as you.

Happy?

As to the drink driving charge, well he has stepped down from a couple of committees so I would conclude from this that he does not consider that he is justified in breaking the drunk driving laws.

Almost right. Most of the money raised is needed to address out gaping deficit. But I can see the appeal of pretending it all goes to evil bondholders. The fault of us spending more money that we raise is ultimately ours. And when we have cursed and damned all the bankers and bondholders and all the baddies we can scare up, we will still have to come back and fix our own problems.

Are you delusional?
F.G. will fall at the next election IF there is a viable alternative. There is none yet. If you put your faith in opinion polls then my question is answered.
AND I have no time for Mick or any of the other criminals either in opposition or in Government.

Hijpo

lugha wrote: »

Their popularity is reflected in opinion polls. Are you seriously suggesting that there are people polled that are unhappy with how the government are running the country but would still tell a pollster that they would vote for them? Of course they wouldn’t, don’t be silly.

Obviously they felt the need to make a choice in favour of a party. im sure if there was an answer along the lines of "i dont trust nor have respect for any money grabbing bastard politician with any personal ties to dirty bankers, greedy civil servants and arrogant, inconcsiderate f*cking liars" would, in my humble working class home owners opinion, top the pole.

bgrizzley

donalg1 wrote: »

People that havent paid te hhc are directly responsible for cuts in funding. .

I am quite proud to be responsible for a cut in waste in the Council. we have done more for waste since March than has been achieved in all those years of quangos, comittees and junkets. we are doing central governments job for them, and free of charge to boot.

As for funding towards people in need, i doubt very much that the LAs would put the upkeep of parks and such ahead of the disabled, and if they did, the disabled have proven themselves to be quite capable of taking on petty government officials.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/protesters-force-health-cuts-u-turn--and-set-sights-on-other-cuts-565842.html

darkhorse

lugha wrote: »

Their popularity is reflected in opinion polls. Are you seriously suggesting that there are people polled that are unhappy with how the government are running the country but would still tell a pollster that they would vote for them? Of course they wouldn’t, don’t be silly.
Almost right. Most of the money raised is needed to address out gaping deficit. But I can see the appeal of pretending it all goes to evil bondholders. The fault of us spending more money that we raise is ultimately ours. And when we have cursed and damned all the bankers and bondholders and all the baddies we can scare up, we will still have to come back and fix our own problems.

There is no one suggesting for a minute that any of the 1000 people polled, would not be happy the way the gob, sorry govt. are running the country, unless, of course, they were hand picked---nah.

Oh, and I can see how a possible 160 million might just be of some use in the utilisation of closing that 16 billion deficit gap. As one of my best friends would say, "would you ever catch yourself on":mad:

lugha

tayto lover wrote: »

F.G. will fall at the next election IF there is a viable alternative. There is none yet.

They may well fall. But whoever replaces them will do substantially the same thing as they are doing.

tayto lover wrote: »

If you put your faith in opinion polls then my question is answered.

Do you suppose that there are people who thoroughly disapprove of FG but tell pollsters that they are happy with them? :eek: Delusional is right!

tayto lover wrote: »

AND I have no time for Mick or any of the other criminals either in opposition or in Government.

Ah now. Criminal is a bit strong. Would you label the 600,000 others who won’t pay criminals as well?

lugha

darkhorse wrote: »

There is no one suggesting for a minute that any of the 1000 people polled, would not be happy the way the gob, sorry govt. are running the country, unless, of course, they were hand picked---nah.

Seriously, what is it with you lads and conspiracy theories?

darkhorse wrote: »

Oh, and I can see how a possible 160 million might just be of some use in the utilisation of closing that 16 billion deficit gap. As one of my best friends would say, "would you ever catch yourself on":mad:

Well the property tax will bring in about 3 or so times that.

But you are right. Some who think that if we do pony up maybe €500 a year in property tax that will be the end of our deficit problem. Things are going to get much, much worse.

tayto lover

lugha wrote: »

They may well fall. But whoever replaces them will do substantially the same thing as they are doing.

Do you suppose that there are people who thoroughly disapprove of FG but tell pollsters that they are happy with them? :eek: Delusional is right!

Ah now. Criminal is a bit strong. Would you label the 600,000 others who won’t pay criminals as well?

1. At some stage a Govt will be formed who will not kow-tow to the Bankers and the IMF. A Govt who will stand up for it's people.

2. With regard to opinion polls you can frame the question to get the answer you want. Opinion Polls are rubbish.

3. It is my opinion that the self-serving politicians of all hues and colours are very much responsible for the state of the country today. They are still there even in your beloved F.G. They have their own Lowrys, Berties and Burkes and are still claiming as much as they can for as little work as they can. What's more the ones in your party are even more arrogant if that's possible after what they replaced. But don't fool yourself the people are and will see through them and confine them to the dustbin of history. It only takes time.

dxhound2005

darkhorse wrote: »

There is no one suggesting for a minute that any of the 1000 people polled, would not be happy the way the gob, sorry govt. are running the country, unless, of course, they were hand picked---nah.

Oh, and I can see how a possible 160 million might just be of some use in the utilisation of closing that 16 billion deficit gap. As one of my best friends would say, "would you ever catch yourself on":mad:

I'm sure he would have said "Would you ever catch yourself on, Sir". You must be looking enviously at the tens of thousands of Donegal people willing to fork out big money for an All Ireland ticket. And all the jerseys sold out. And they have had 5 away games in the championship already. Where the hell is all the money coming from in that impoverished county? A Donegal man I know told me the last trip to Croke Park set him back €250.

http://www.donegalnow.com/sp/article_manager/detail/gaa_take_action_against_ticket_touts

People will inevitably investigate alternative avenues in order to obtain a ticket. Prices for the clash have sky-rocketed, while many fans have taken to unofficial websites to get a ticket.

Hijpo

lugha wrote: »

They may well fall. But whoever replaces them will do substantially the same thing as they are doing.

There you go again, you seem to be of the mentality of its going to happen so put up and shut up.

Not this time, this time they are starting to make serious impacts on peoples ability to live a comfortable life.

lugha

tayto lover wrote: »

1. At some stage a Govt will be formed who will not kow-tow to the Bankers and the IMF. A Govt who will stand up for it's people.

They certain have the authority to tell the IMF to skedaddle. The only problem is that the IMF might do just that. And then, in stead of trying to make a 3.5 billion adjustment in the next budget we would have to make one about 4 times bigger.

tayto lover wrote: »

2. With regard to opinion polls you can frame the question to get the answer you want. Opinion Polls are rubbish.

Typically the question they ask would be along the lines of the following

“If there were a general election tomorrow, to which party or independent candidate would you give your first preference vote?”

How exactly do you get the answer “you want” to a question phrased like that?

Ghandee

lugha wrote: »

If you referring to Michael Hegarty, there is little out there about the circumstances of his tax liabilities. But it certainly does appear that, unlike Reilly, there are no consortium complications and he was solely responsible for making sure he was tax compliant, which seemingly he did not do.

So assuming this is indeed the case and he has made a conscious decision to violate our tax laws then I have no hesitation is putting him a couple of rungs above you on the ethical ladder.

And if you can cite any evidence that he is actively and hypocritically criticising other people for violating our tax laws then I would push him further down and put him on the very same level as you.

Happy?

Not really.

Why would you place someone who is listed (again) by Stubbs gazette as a defaulter,v this time in relation to revenue, 'on the same rung' as me?

I've paid all my taxes, vat etc etc etc.

Every penny.

Don't let party politics brain wash you again lugha, you're the one emerging as the class clown here.

lugha wrote: »

As to the drink driving charge, well he has stepped down from a couple of committees so I would conclude from this that he does not consider that he is justified in breaking the drunk driving laws.

So, a drunk driving tax evader?

FG truly are the party that just keep giving.

lugha

Ghandee wrote: »

Why would you place someone who is listed (again) by Stubbs gazette as a defaulter,v this time in relation to revenue, 'on the same rung' as me?

I've paid all my taxes, vat etc etc etc.

Every penny.

You are urging people not to pay charges that they are legally obliged to pay, even if you are exempt. And you don’t deny that you would refuse to pay if you were not.

And I didn’t say I put you on the same rung as Mr H, I put you a couple of rungs below.

tayto lover

lugha wrote: »

They certain have the authority to tell the IMF to skedaddle. The only problem is that the IMF might do just that. And then, in stead of trying to make a 3.5 billion adjustment in the next budget we would have to make one about 4 times bigger.

Typically the question they ask would be along the lines of the following

“If there were a general election tomorrow, to which party or independent candidate would you give your first preference vote?”

How exactly do you get the answer “you want” to a question phrased like that?

They could tell the Europeans that there is already too much austerity and that they want longer to pay back the borrowings. That's a simple thing to ask for.

Maybe they asked the the question along the lines of "do you want F.F. back yet or would you prefer to have a lesser form of evil like F.G. (presently) run the country into the ground?"

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I'm sure he would have said "Would you ever catch yourself on, Sir". You must be looking enviously at the tens of thousands of Donegal people willing to fork out big money for an All Ireland ticket. And all the jerseys sold out. And they have had 5 away games in the championship already. Where the hell is all the money coming from in that impoverished county? A Donegal man I know told me the last trip to Croke Park set him back €250.

http://www.donegalnow.com/sp/article_manager/detail/gaa_take_action_against_ticket_touts

People will inevitably investigate alternative avenues in order to obtain a ticket. Prices for the clash have sky-rocketed, while many fans have taken to unofficial websites to get a ticket.

Again with the fixation on what people choose to spend their cash on, and what they choose not to waste it on.

Donegal GAA fans, may decide that 250 of their hard earned cash, to watch their beloved senior county team play in the all Ireland represents value for money. (in their eyes)

They refuse to pay one hundred for the hhc because:

A, they don't see €100 as value for money (just to self register for an unknown yearly payable sum)
And
B, especially coming from a border area, they see what some of their neighbors receive for the rates they pay, and thus have decided a property tax in its current guise its also not value for money.

Especially when they see wastage and the vast salaries of the lads at the top.

lugha

tayto lover wrote: »

They could tell the Europeans that there is already too much austerity and that they want longer to pay back the borrowings. That's a simple thing to ask for.

So would you maintain our deficit at about 15 billion for the foreseeable future? And let future generations worry about paying crippling interest, never mind repaying any of the capital? Even if we were prepared to pass on the mess that this generation made I don’t think the Troika will permit us to.

tayto lover wrote: »

Maybe they asked the the question along the lines of "do you want F.F. back yet or would you prefer to have a lesser form of evil like F.G. (presently) run the country into the ground?"

They didn’t. The text of the questions the reputable pollsters ask is readily available.

Ghandee

lugha wrote: »

You are urging people not to pay charges that they are legally obliged to pay, even if you are exempt. And you don’t deny that you would refuse to pay if you were not.

And I didn’t say I put you on the same rung as Mr H, I put you a couple of rungs below.

Catch yourself on, trolling has become obvious now.

I may very well encourage non registering and non payment of a charge (not a tax) that I neither consider moral or just. Or am Liable for, but at least i do not claim otherwise.

I can only assume that he in the other hand has joined other party faithfuls in encouraging members of the public to pay it, as he would consider it both fair, and necessary to ensure the county that pays him continues to be funded.

So, while he draws his (various) salaries from the states coffers, he doesn't pay ino them himself, resulting in Stubbs naming him as a defaulter (with James Reilly)

He's above me on your moral ladder how?

ncdadam

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I'm sure he would have said "Would you ever catch yourself on, Sir". You must be looking enviously at the tens of thousands of Donegal people willing to fork out big money for an All Ireland ticket. And all the jerseys sold out. And they have had 5 away games in the championship already. Where the hell is all the money coming from in that impoverished county? A Donegal man I know told me the last trip to Croke Park set him back €250.
[/I]

Does that not show that a lot of people are not paying on principle?

We see what goes on here, the perks, the insane political salaries and even more insane TD's pensions, the waste of money in every aspect of the PS/CS, the county managers on prime ministers wage, the good, borrowed money thrown after the corrupt banks, the guy closing down anglo on €863,000 a year, the special advisors breaking the agreed cap on their wages, the cronyism that is every bit as bad now as it was under FF, the list goes on and on and on....

People have had enough and as there is no elections, either local or general, not paying this is the only protest mechanism there is at the moment.

tayto lover

lugha wrote: »

So would you maintain our deficit at about 15 billion for the foreseeable future? And let future generations worry about paying crippling interest, never mind repaying any of the capital? Even if we were prepared to pass on the mess that this generation made I don’t think the Troika will permit us to.

They didn’t. The text of the questions the reputable pollsters ask is readily available.

At the present time people are at the pin of their collar to survive and are praying that we will have a mild winter. The cost of living is rising all the time, gas, petrol, food and clothing. Things might be better in years to come.

With regards to Opinion Polls they really are a sham. If you pick your clientele and frame your question correctly you can get the result you want every time.

lugha

tayto lover wrote: »

At the present time people are at the pin of their collar to survive and are praying that we will have a mild winter. The cost of living is rising all the time, gas, petrol, food and clothing. Things might be better in years to come.

Yes they are unfortunately. And much as we would like it to be so, there is no neat, painless solution. My expectation is (unless we get a very lucky and unexpected break) that our standard of living will be set back a couple of decades or more.

tayto lover wrote: »

With regards to Opinion Polls they really are a sham. If you pick your clientele and frame your question correctly you can get the result you want every time.

Yes, they can be a sham if they do what you suggest. But they don’t.

Hijpo

lugha wrote: »

Yes they are unfortunately. And much as we would like it to be so, there is no neat, painless solution.

A solution that could be made a bit less painful if the money hungry arse holes running the country into the ground would make the cuts that coincide with the state of the economy.

By that i dont mean handing back 9k of a 92k salary with tens of thousdands worth of perks left untouched. thats like throwing 2c at someone and saying "but sure i gave you something"

darkhorse

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I'm sure he would have said "Would you ever catch yourself on, Sir". You must be looking enviously at the tens of thousands of Donegal people willing to fork out big money for an All Ireland ticket. And all the jerseys sold out. And they have had 5 away games in the championship already. Where the hell is all the money coming from in that impoverished county? A Donegal man I know told me the last trip to Croke Park set him back €250.

http://www.donegalnow.com/sp/article_manager/detail/gaa_take_action_against_ticket_touts

People will inevitably investigate alternative avenues in order to obtain a ticket. Prices for the clash have sky-rocketed, while many fans have taken to unofficial websites to get a ticket.

Well, dx, you seem to have all the the answers. That is, exept the most important one, which is, they had 20 years to save the money. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Sir.:)

lugha

Hijpo wrote: »

A solution that could be made a bit less painful if the money hungry arse holes running the country into the ground would make the cuts that coincide with the state of the economy.

I don't know what you mean by that?

Hijpo wrote: »

By that i dont mean handing back 9k of a 92k salary with tens of thousdands worth of perks left untouched. thats like throwing 2c at someone and saying "but sure i gave you something"

Every elected official in the country could work for free, take no perks or expenses etc. It would have close to zero impact on our deficit.

Which is not to say that their renumeration should not be revised. It is just that this should not be presented as the solution, or even an element of the solution. It would be a gesture, little more.

Ghandee

lugha wrote: »

I don't know what you mean by that?

Every elected official in the country could work for free, take no perks or expenses etc. It would have close to zero impact on our deficit.

Which is not to say that their renumeration should not be revised. It is just that this should not be presented as the solution, or even an element of the solution. It would be a gesture, little more.

Answer my question.

lugha

Ghandee wrote: »

He's above me on your moral ladder how?

It would appear (though I have not heard his version of events) that he made a choice not to pay what he is legally obliged to pay to this state. You encourage others to do the same, which amounts to the same thing.

What he does not do, unless you have evidence to the contrary, is point a wagging finger at other people for committing the exact same sin that he is guilty of. And you and a couple of other posters here are doing this with bells on, even labelling them criminals.

Surely you can see that one charge you can not make with any credibility, against politicians or anyone else, is that they are not meeting their tax obligations to the state?

Ghandee

lugha wrote: »

It would appear (though I have not heard his version of events) that he made a choice not to pay what he is legally obliged to pay to this state. You encourage others to do the same, which amounts to the same thing.

I don't think so. I encourage others not to pay something I am not liable for, though i do not intend to pay property tax when its introduced. I, at least am not being hypocritical about it.

I'm a private sector worker, my income is entirely self generated, as in I pay my income tax on whatever I earn.

Mr Hegarty, the Leader of the party in east cork (the largest LA county in the country) was/is employed by the party responsible for introducing an extremely controversial tax (which would go some way to pay his multiple salaries) yet hasn't been tax compliant himself.



Also,b you say.

(though I have not heard his version of events)

Allow me please.

Michael Hegarty, a long-serving member of Cork County Council, owes the Revenue’s collector general €81,823.

He made the comment after his details appeared in Stubbs Gazette.

Cllr Hegarty, from Ladysbridge in East Cork, said his property management services company had encountered difficulties.

"I was basically running an auctioneers’ business and I, like many other people, had invested in a few properties," he said yesterday.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2012/0906/ireland/fg-councillor-owes-81k-to-revenue-over-properties-206607.html

Invested in a few properties indeed. :rolleyes:
Another contributor to the mess the countries in.

lugha wrote: »

What he does not do, unless you have evidence to the contrary, is point a wagging finger at other people for committing the exact same sin that he is guilty of. And you and a couple of other posters here are doing this with bells on, even labelling them criminals.

Surely you can see that one charge you can not make with any credibility, against politicians or anyone else, is that they are not meeting their tax obligations to the state?

I'm sure theirs a point in this load of waffle somewhere, i just can't see it.

On a side note, RTE also reported the story too, but only the drink driving part.

I wonder why the state sponsored media would leave such a vital piece of a jig saw puzzle out of their story?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0911/fine-gael-councillor.html

Googling the story doesn't seem to reveal anything from rte ref the tax issues either.

Just can't put my finger on that for some reason.......

donalg1

bgrizzley wrote: »

I am quite proud to be responsible for a cut in waste in the Council. we have done more for waste since March than has been achieved in all those years of quangos, comittees and junkets. we are doing central governments job for them, and free of charge to boot.

As for funding towards people in need, i doubt very much that the LAs would put the upkeep of parks and such ahead of the disabled, and if they did, the disabled have proven themselves to be quite capable of taking on petty government officials.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/protesters-force-health-cuts-u-turn--and-set-sights-on-other-cuts-565842.html

I am sure they wouldnt put the upkeep of parks ahead of the disabled now in fairness but the fact is they wont have the funding for either and someone will go without, but sure as long as you are proud.:rolleyes:

ncdadam

Can't beat inconsistant posters.:rolleyes:

Izzy Skint

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/home-tax-owners-to-decide-on-the-value-of-their-own-property-3228907.html

you have to value your own home ?...."just" tick the box corresponding to your home's value....we will take cash, credit card, direct debit or deduct from pay...spotchecks.....
"The Revenue Commissioners will be in charge of collecting the payment and given powers to chase dodgers."....!!!!!

what a load of f*cking crap, how much money, time, resources are being wasted on this..... are they trying to frighten people again with the revenue comms. ?....are they trying to divide and conquer with their "ability to pay" and "people who have previously paid stamp duty" decoys?....don't be fooled all
The time to take to the streets is nearing, people power can beat this, don't let a revenue commissioners letter frighten you people...even the revenue need our cooperation to introduce this.....and that is before the protests begin

Izzy Skint

donalg1 wrote: »

I am sure they wouldnt put the upkeep of parks ahead of the disabled now in fairness but the fact is they wont have the funding for either and someone will go without, but sure as long as you are proud.:rolleyes:

and govt. waste has nothing at all to do with it ?.....unsecured European gamblers bear no responsibility ?...the unions gun to the govt's head bears no consequences ?....yeah, just us hard working mugs who must be screwed at every opportunity and who won't pay our €100 hhc are the cause of all the cutbacks !

donalg1

Izzy Skint wrote: »

and govt. waste has nothing at all to do with it ?.....unsecured European gamblers bear no responsibility ?...the unions gun to the govt's head bears no consequences ?....yeah, just us hard working mugs who must be screwed at every opportunity and who won't pay our €100 hhc are the cause of all the cutbacks !

Really? Where did I say they are the cause of all the cutbacks? I believe I said they are somewhat responsible but not solely responsible. But sure post whatever lies you like Izzy.