Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

donalg1

ncdadam wrote: »

I do apologise, that wasn't the link you referred to earlier.
Now, I've read that link and nowhere does it say there's been a cut in the disabled persons grant.
It mentions a suspension of housing grants ok, if that's what your referring to.
This has been happening since 2007 in some councils but you seem to think it's only happening since March 31st of this year.
If Kildare county council can't manage their budget maybe someone else should do it for them.

Ha ha you really are grasping at straws now suspended cut whatever you want to call it people are now facing the prospect of not getting a disabled grant because people havent paid the HHC.

You talk about being mature enough to admit when you are wrong yet you cant do this? You say I was lying yet I clearly wasnt wont hold my breath for an apology for that either. I think you need to accept the fact that you were wrong and get over it, and stop being so childish.

Am Chile

Izzy Skint wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/home-tax-owners-to-decide-on-the-value-of-their-own-property-3228907.html

you have to value your own home ?...."just" tick the box corresponding to your home's value....we will take cash, credit card, direct debit or deduct from pay...spotchecks.....
"The Revenue Commissioners will be in charge of collecting the payment and given powers to chase dodgers."....!!!!!

what a load of f*cking crap, how much money, time, resources are being wasted on this..... are they trying to frighten people again with the revenue comms. ?....are they trying to divide and conquer with their "ability to pay" and "people who have previously paid stamp duty" decoys?....don't be fooled all
The time to take to the streets is nearing, people power can beat this, don't let a revenue commissioners letter frighten you people...even the revenue need our cooperation to introduce this.....and that is before the protests begin

Also in that article it states.

Revenue officials are already working behind the scenes with the local
authorities in charge of putting this together.





The database is being compiled by the Local Government Management Association
and the city and county councils.

Doesn,t surprise me-I posted a good few weeks ago.

Heads Up To All Anti Household Tax Posters





About half 3 I had a
knock on the door from a council official, he would of being his fifties had a
clipboard with him-when I answered the door he said may I ask the names of those
living here, how many living in the house, it for the voting register he said-I
told him Im not answering any of your questions-please leave my property-he left
and went next door-I had the window open and overheard him asking the same
questions-I strongly suspect the whole voting register thing is just an excuse
to asked questions- this is being done as an Intel gathering exercise by the
council gathering further info for next years property tax.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79875821&postcount=5809

Some other people I know had someone from the council knock on their doors recently asking ,how many lived at the address, is this your residency home or do you rent here, is everyone at this address on the voting register, def an Intel gathering exercise when they re asking how many lives at a certain address plus asking is this your residency home or do you rent here-- I told a good few people about the guy knocking on my door a good few weeks ago so other people I know told council officials to leave their property when they arrived asking all those questions.

ncdadam

donalg1 wrote: »

Ha ha you really are grasping at straws now suspended cut whatever you want to call it people are now facing the prospect of not getting a disabled grant because people havent paid the HHC.

You talk about being mature enough to admit when you are wrong yet you cant do this? You say I was lying yet I clearly wasnt wont hold my breath for an apology for that either. I think you need to accept the fact that you were wrong and get over it, and stop being so childish.

Yes mammy, there's been a suspension of housing grants in Kildare.
Should have known better really, I'm dealing with the most prolific poster here who's support of the HHC and who's constant putting down and ridiculing of people with a different view to his own has to be admired.

Keep up the good work.

seamus

Am Chile wrote: »

Some other people I know had someone from the council knock on their doors recently asking ,how many lived at the address, is this your residency home or do you rent here, is everyone at this address on the voting register, def an Intel gathering exercise when they re asking how many lives at a certain address plus asking is this your residency home or do you rent here-- I told a good few people about the guy knocking on my door a good few weeks ago so other people I know told council officials to leave their property when they arrived asking all those questions.

You're letting your paranoia get the better of you.

Your local council are compiling the electoral register for next year. They knocked on my door. I didn't bother answering because it's usually salespeople in the evenings.

So he put a registration form through the letterbox.

They don't really care if they get your details, you just won't be able to vote if you're not on the register.

You're being totally paranoid.

donalg1

ncdadam wrote: »

Yes mammy, there's been a suspension of housing grants in Kildare.
Should have known better really, I'm dealing with the most prolific poster here who's support of the HHC and who's constant putting down and ridiculing of people with a different view to his own has to be admired.

Keep up the good work.

I dont put anyone down and I dont ridicule anyone for having a different view than mine.

However, you are the one here calling me a liar, saying I am brainwashed, saying i am childlake, saying I have comprehension problems, saying I am not big enough to admit I am wrong.

Seems to me its you that is trying to ridicule me by continuously abusing me and saying silly things as above. I am still waiting to see if you are mature enough or big enough to admit you are wrong.

And just so you know I am not the most prolific poster here, Alastair, dvpower and Ghandee are all ahead of me.

ncdadam

donalg1 wrote: »

I dont put anyone down and I dont ridicule anyone for having a different view than mine.

However, you are the one here calling me a liar, saying I am brainwashed, saying i am childlake, saying I have comprehension problems, saying I am not big enough to admit I am wrong.

Seems to me its you that is trying to ridicule me by continuously abusing me and saying silly things as above. I am still waiting to see if you are mature enough or big enough to admit you are wrong.

And just so you know I am not the most prolific poster here, Alastair, dvpower and Ghandee are all ahead of me.

I stand corrected if Kildare CC have suspended their housing grants.
You put that link up today at 12.21, it wasn't there at the start of our discussion, hence my saying you had not shown any proof that grants for the disabled had been cut.
All LA's have been cutting their budgets and it didn't start this year, it started 4 years ago for most of them when they realised the levies they got from dodgy building developments were about to dry up.
The problem with the LA's is that they squander our hard earned tax euro and surely cuts to the weakest in society should be the last thing they do and not the first.
€80,000 savings in KCC by stopping housing grants, could they not have taken that €80,000 off the top brass there for this year?

Kildare
County manger (Michael Malone): €153,260
6 directors of service: €86,408 to €106,900
6 senior engineers: €73,223 to €87,117
* What the top 10 earn: €1,056,011

Or have a read of this, look out for the bit about the librarian earning more than the prime minister of Spain.




http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=15&ved=0CDgQFjAEOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishexaminer.com%2Fireland%2Forganisations-are-top-heavy-with-high-earners-189877.html&ei=SkNTUKrCCsmHhQeiq4HYAg&usg=AFQjCNGsqB1SwAimNMznOCjcjEzsRnuhRA&sig2=mQ5nuJvOgNWt8Nx9D9hmpQ


These ****ers need cutting first.

donalg1

ncdadam wrote: »

I stand corrected if Kildare CC have suspended their housing grants.
You put that link up today at 12.21, it wasn't there at the start of our discussion, hence my saying you had not shown any proof that grants for the disabled had been cut.
All LA's have been cutting their budgets and it didn't start this year, it started 4 years ago for most of them when they realised the levies they got from dodgy building developments were about to dry up.
The problem with the LA's is that they squander our hard earned tax euro and surely cuts to the weakest in society should be the last thing they do and not the first.
€80,000 savings in KCC by stopping housing grants, could they not have taken that €80,000 off the top brass there for this year?

Kildare
County manger (Michael Malone): €153,260
6 directors of service: €86,408 to €106,900
6 senior engineers: €73,223 to €87,117
* What the top 10 earn: €1,056,011

Or have a read of this, look out for the bit about the librarian earning more than the prime minister of Spain.




http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=15&ved=0CDgQFjAEOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishexaminer.com%2Fireland%2Forganisations-are-top-heavy-with-high-earners-189877.html&ei=SkNTUKrCCsmHhQeiq4HYAg&usg=AFQjCNGsqB1SwAimNMznOCjcjEzsRnuhRA&sig2=mQ5nuJvOgNWt8Nx9D9hmpQ


These ****ers need cutting first.

I dont disagree with the above where you said they squander the money and where you mention the salaries of the top brass, it is disgraceful the money they get paid.

But fact is the grants are being cut as a result of the HHC that is the only point I am making, you asked for proof of this I gave it to you, and even after I gave it to you, you accused me of lying and of making it up and said I have comprehension problems, all of which were completely uncalled for.

You asked if I would be mature enough to admit I was wrong, well are you?

flutered

donalg1 wrote: »

I am not talking about services to you, I am talking about services to people in need of them. Those in less fortunate positions than yourself, the type of people that depend on LA services.

i am disabled. i attended the pain clinic in my local hospital last friday, i was told go home and live away the best i could, i was told that no operation or injections would work, i contscted my gp as regards what services would be made advailable to me, i was told none due to cutbacks, is that not proof that there are cuts being made to the disabled.

donalg1

flutered wrote: »

i am disabled. i attended the pain clinic in my local hospital last friday, i was told go home and live away the best i could, i was told that no operation or injections would work, i contscted my gp as regards what services would be made advailable to me, i was told none due to cutbacks, is that not proof that there are cuts being made to the disabled.

My point is that there are cuts being made to the disabled, you claimed you dont get any services and therefore shouldnt pay the HHC, I simply stated that the services are being cut to people in need of them as a result of people not paying the HHC. I think we are on the same page here flutered.

tayto lover

donalg1 wrote: »

My point is that there are cuts being made to the disabled, you claimed you dont get any services and therefore shouldnt pay the HHC, I simply stated that the services are being cut to people in need of them as a result of people not paying the HHC. I think we are on the same page here flutered.

The cuts to Health Services have nothing to do with the non payment of the HHC. They are part of the cuts James Reilly wants to inflict as he tries to row-in the HSE big gun consultant who are on serious money.

donalg1

tayto lover wrote: »

The cuts to Health Services have nothing to do with the non payment of the HHC. They are part of the cuts James Reilly wants to inflict as he tries to row-in the HSE big gun consultant who are on serious money.

I know this but I am talking about the cuts to the disabled persons grants and cuts to the services provided by the LA's that are related to the non payment of the HHC.

tayto lover

donalg1 wrote: »

I know this but I am talking about the cuts to the disabled persons grants and cuts to the services provided by the LA's that are related to the non payment of the HHC.

Yes but fluttered went to his local hospital with pain. The LA's don't deal with pain. Only medicine deals with pain.

donalg1

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes but fluttered went to his local hospital with pain. The LA's don't deal with pain. Only medicine deals with pain.

Obviously, but tbh I dont know why flutered is telling me this, I have been here for three days now saying how it is scandalous that services such as grants for the disabled are being cut as a result of people not paying the HHC. Others are denying this is happening I am simply pointing out the fact that it is happening. I may have missed flutereds point though.

tayto lover

donalg1 wrote: »

Obviously, but tbh I dont know why flutered is telling me this, I have been here for three days now saying how it is scandalous that services such as grants for the disabled are being cut as a result of people not paying the HHC. Others are denying this is happening I am simply pointing out the fact that it is happening. I may have missed flutereds point though.

Take a break donalg1 and report back on Monday
We all need a break.

donalg1

flutered wrote: »

i am disabled. i attended the pain clinic in my local hospital last friday, i was told go home and live away the best i could, i was told that no operation or injections would work, i contscted my gp as regards what services would be made advailable to me, i was told none due to cutbacks, is that not proof that there are cuts being made to the disabled.

tayto lover wrote: »

Take a break donalg1 and report back on Monday
We all need a break.

I am confused as to why flutered told me the above as I said I have been here for days making people aware that services are being cut. Unless flutered was trying to back up what I have been saying all this time. Now I know the services flutered is talking about are not the ones I am but the point remains the same. Services are being cut for different reasons but cut nonetheless.

abba twar screams

the European banks, and then the pay and pensions of public servants (including ex-public leeches 'servants' like Bertie, Brian et al) will be paid first out of our taxes.

Whatever is left over will be spread amongst all other needs with those who shout loudest being looked after first.

it's going to get very ugly :mad:

mikom

tayto lover wrote: »

Just listened to the News on the radio and it seems that the people who will be billed first for the Property Tax are those who have already paid the HHC.

I wonder why that is :rolleyes:
Any suggestions ?

Because their hole is already gaping................ no need for lube.

ncdadam

donalg1 wrote: »

I dont disagree with the above where you said they squander the money and where you mention the salaries of the top brass, it is disgraceful the money they get paid.

But fact is the grants are being cut as a result of the HHC that is the only point I am making, you asked for proof of this I gave it to you, and even after I gave it to you, you accused me of lying and of making it up and said I have comprehension problems, all of which were completely uncalled for.

You asked if I would be mature enough to admit I was wrong, well are you?

Obviously I was, although I hadn't seen the link from this morning, I thought you referred me to the other three links where Kildare wasn't mentioned thats all.
Apologies for that so.
Fact remains that the LA's should look to their own excesses before cutting the people that need it.
The whole thing about cutting LA funding if they don't get the HHC in is a farce and a sham, it just shows how gutless and inept that twat hogan really is.He couldn't set it up properly so after a while he just passed it on the LA's and let them deal with it.
The HHC has been a disaster from the very start and you may not agree with me Donal but I won't be paying it.
Sorry.

lugha

tayto lover wrote: »

1. Do you think that someone who made a legal agreement and signed it and then refused to keep that agreement is guilty of a crime?

2. Do you believe that someone who refused to co-operate with a Court Order and continues to flout the ruling of that court is guilty of a crime?

You would be better to ask someone with legal training but IMO, no on both counts. If you renege on a legal agreement the injured party can sue you and you may have a judgement made against you. But it would not be a criminal conviction. And similarly with contempt of court. But as I say, ask a solicitor if you are determined, as it seems you are, to hang the “criminal” label on some.

And you are being disingenuous in relation to Reilly by quoting (or even mis-quoting!) selective facts. The pertinent question to ask is, was there any time through this saga when a course of action was open to him that he could have taken but did not? I don’t think there is / was.

tayto lover wrote: »

It was forced on us against our will and we did not sign up to it beforehand unlike example 1 and 2 above.

Preposterous argument! Did Reilly agree to whatever law requires that legal contracts be honoured? No he didn’t any more than he agreed to the law prohibiting murder or theft or anything else. And of course, it doesn’t matter than he didn’t. If he does business in this state he is bound by the rules of this state, as are you.

runawaybishop wrote: »

Little more? You fail to appreciate the height of the opinion the public put on the wages paid to officials.

It would do very little in terms of reducing our deficit.

And even as a gesture it would have very limited impact. Certainly ordinary people who struggle to pay bills may focus their ire on over-paid politicians. But even if the salaries of the latter are slashed that won’t reduce by 1c the bills that those who are struggling have to pay.

ncdadam

mikom wrote: »

Because their hole is already gaping................ no need for lube.

What movie is this?????

donalg1

ncdadam wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

I dont disagree with the above where you said they squander the money and where you mention the salaries of the top brass, it is disgraceful the money they get paid.

But fact is the grants are being cut as a result of the HHC that is the only point I am making, you asked for proof of this I gave it to you, and even after I gave it to you, you accused me of lying and of making it up and said I have comprehension problems, all of which were completely uncalled for.

You asked if I would be mature enough to admit I was wrong, well are you?

Obviously I was, although I hadn't seen the link from this morning, I thought you referred me to the other three links where Kildare wasn't mentioned thats all.
Apologies for that so.
Fact remains that the LA's should look to their own excesses before cutting the people that need it.
The whole thing about cutting LA funding if they don't get the HHC in is a farce and a sham, it just shows how gutless and inept that twat hogan really is.He couldn't set it up properly so after a while he just passed it on the LA's and let them deal with it.
The HHC has been a disaster from the very start and you may not agree with me Donal but I won't be paying it.
Sorry.

That's grand glad you admitted. I agree withyou completely that whole thing from start to finish has been a mess and that Hogan is really out of his depth with this.

I have always maintained that whether or not you pay it is your decision and I won't tell anyone what to do with their money.

ncdadam

lugha wrote: »

Preposterous argument! Did Reilly agree to whatever law requires that legal contracts be honoured? No he didn’t any more than he agreed to the law prohibiting murder or theft or anything else. And of course, it doesn’t matter than he didn’t. If he does business in this state he is bound by the rules of this state, as are you.

I'm sure reilly signed a legally binding contract when doing business with his partners, unlike people who won't pay the HHC.

Ghandee

ncdadam wrote: »

I'm sure reilly signed a legally binding contract when doing business with his partners, unlike people who won't pay the HHC.

I'm sure Mr Hegarty did too.

dxhound2005

Another €114.6 million brought in by Revenue from people who thought they were getting away with it. The big ones seem to be mostly from the private sector.

http://www.thescore.ie/revenue-yield-e114-62-million-in-settlements-595324-Sep2012/

The big ones are in Part 2

http://www.revenue.ie/en/press/defaulters/index.html

From what I see and hear in the media the discourse seems to have moved on to a general acceptance that there will be a property tax. Still no sign of the HHC legislation being abolished so CAHWT types are still running up arrears and possibly making themselves a subject of interest for the Revenue.

bgrizzley

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Another €114.6 million brought in by Revenue from people who thought they were getting away with it. The big ones seem to be mostly from the private sector.

http://www.thescore.ie/revenue-yield-e114-62-million-in-settlements-595324-Sep2012/

The big ones are in Part 2

http://www.revenue.ie/en/press/defaulters/index.html

From what I see and hear in the media the discourse seems to have moved on to a general acceptance that there will be a property tax. Still no sign of the HHC legislation being abolished so CAHWT types are still running up arrears and possibly making themselves a subject of interest for the Revenue.

pity they'll be chasing all those E100's, it will give the real tax evaders a nice bit of breathing room to salt away their millions...:(

dxhound2005

bgrizzley wrote: »

pity they'll be chasing all those E100's, it will give the real tax evaders a nice bit of breathing room to salt away their millions...:(

Those tax evaders don't usually announce their crimes in public saying come and get me. Quite a few people who I imagine to be wealthy like Mary Lou McDonald and Eamonn Dunphy announced publicly that they were going to defy the HHC law. Anyone doing that makes themselves "low hanging fruit" in my opinion and should be gone after. But maybe they have quietly registered and paid since, who knows.

PC CDROM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Those tax evaders don't usually announce their crimes in public saying come and get me. Quite a few people who I imagine to be wealthy like Mary Lou McDonald and Eamonn Dunphy announced publicly that they were going to defy the HHC law. Anyone doing that makes themselves "low hanging fruit" in my opinion and should be gone after. But maybe they have quietly registered and paid since, who knows.

Base it on rebuilding/insurance value.

Simple.

bgrizzley

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Those tax evaders don't usually announce their crimes in public saying come and get me. Quite a few people who I imagine to be wealthy like Mary Lou McDonald and Eamonn Dunphy announced publicly that they were going to defy the HHC law. Anyone doing that makes themselves "low hanging fruit" in my opinion and should be gone after. But maybe they have quietly registered and paid since, who knows.

all the more reason for the revenue to be concentrating on the quiet lads and not chasing pennies.

fair dues to the two, i cant imagine they would be wealthy but i guess they would be able to afford to go to court and fight it anyway, something that the majority of ordinary people probably couldnt.

and who knows, first case might get a judge thats p1ssed off with enda over that referendum last year...

dxhound2005

bgrizzley wrote: »

all the more reason for the revenue to be concentrating on the quiet lads and not chasing pennies.

fair dues to the two, i cant imagine they would be wealthy but i guess they would be able to afford to go to court and fight it anyway, something that the majority of ordinary people probably couldnt.

and who knows, first case might get a judge thats p1ssed off with enda over that referendum last year...

Or one that will be intimidated by the huge protests promised by CAHWT at courthouses.

http://www.joehiggins.ie/2012/09/cahwt-press-statement-campaign-against-household-water-taxes-prepares-for-next-phase-of-campaign/

Anyone who is unlucky enough to be summonsed will have legal advice and support from the Campaign, and we will be organising huge protests outside any such court cases.

They also promise legal assistance for anyone going to court but never answer how their so called legal teams would deal with the fact that any lawyer complicit in the facilitation of tax evasion is guilty of an offence themselves.

dvpower

Mayo Co Co to start bringing cases to the district court next month, and will be seeking legal costs. At last, we'll get to see the colour of the CAHWT's money.

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16098:householders-warned-to-pay-up-or-face-court&catid=23:news&Itemid=46