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Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

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    #7832
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,941 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    donalg1 wrote: »
    don't see how you can say its blackmail they are telling them if they want a service they have to pay for it. Seems like a normal order of business really. If someone said to me " ill give you 2000+ if you give me 100" I wouldn't be calling it blackmail id call it a brilliant deal

    I think it's mainly the FG voters i.e. farmers who seem to qualify for education or any other kind of grants in this country at the present time.


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    #7833
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    dvpower wrote: »
    Only a fool would describe a bond that was paid back in full as 'lost'.

    They invested in a bankrupt Bank, yet they got their initial investment plus interest.

    So I suppose it was foolish of me to say they 'lost' as they lost nothing, they should have lost their investments though. That's what unsecured non guaranteed usually means.:cool:


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    #7834
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    mikom wrote: »
    donalg1 wrote: »
    don't see how you can say its blackmail they are telling them if they want a service they have to pay for it. Seems like a normal order of business really. If someone said to me " ill give you 2000+ if you give me 100" I wouldn't be calling it blackmail id call it a brilliant deal

    Services........?
    The Household Charge is an annual charge introduced by the Local Government (Household Charge) Act 2011 which is payable by owners of residential property.

    These services are essential to your community. They include: fire and emergency services; maintenance and cleaning of streets; planning and development; public parks; street lighting; libraries; open spaces and leisure amenities.

    So they have added college now.
    Making it up as they go along........ as are the sycophants.
    .
    .

    Services are anything provided by the local authority which these grants are so if she wants to avail of this service she can pay for it. She gets a pretty good return on her 100 if you ask me and if she is not paying on a point of principle (i know this is hardly the case) she won't mind missing out on her grant this year to stick to her principles.

    And if she doesn't want to avail of these services she doesn't have to pay its very simple.


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    #7835
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Services are anything provided by the local authority which these grants are

    .....

    To qualify for a maintenance grant, you must fulfil the conditions of the scheme as regards:
    • Nationality and immigration status
    • Residence
    • Means
    • Household charge
    • Go away ta fuck

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/third_level_education/fees_and_supports_for_third_level_education/maintenance_grant_schemes_for_students_on_third_level_courses.html


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    #7836
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    mikom wrote: »
    donalg1 wrote: »
    Services are anything provided by the local authority which these grants are

    .....

    To qualify for a maintenance grant, you must fulfil the conditions of the scheme as regards:
    • Nationality and immigration status
    • Residence
    • Means
    • Household charge
    • Go away ta fuck

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/third_level_education/fees_and_supports_for_third_level_education/maintenance_grant_schemes_for_students_on_third_level_courses.html

    Who processes the application and gives her the grant. Bet she thought she would never have to pay the hhc if she simply didn't register. Now she will have to pay about 120 when she could have paid 100 although she is still well up really overall.


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    #7837
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    People are happy to take thousands for Child Benefit and then expect thousands more for college grants but won't hand over €100 for the HHC.

    So let met get this straight. This child benifit, which is more than 50 years in existance and is paid out to parents to help with the maintanence of the child, should now, in your opinion, be reinbursed to the state, in the guise of an added charge, to the to the owner of a family home, which, from next year, is going to be a progressive tax. Do ya really not see the immorality of it all.


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    #7838
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,027 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    darkhorse wrote: »
    So let met get this straight. This child benifit, which is more than 50 years in existance and is paid out to parents to help with the maintanence of the child, should now, in your opinion, be reinbursed to the state, in the guise of an added charge, to the to the owner of a family home, which, from next year, is going to be a progressive tax. Do ya really not see the immorality of it all.

    You're one of the ones asking for workers increments to be stopped. Meaning that new entrants processing these transfers of wealth from the taxpayer to you are kept on their starting wage forever. How moral is that?

    Anyway I'm not convinced yet about this college thing. The only thing I can find is the first post on this thread which shows a copy of a letter which may or may not be genuine.

    http://www.peoplesrepublicofcork.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212099


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    #7839
    flutered
    Registered Users Posts: 6,686 ✭✭✭flutered


    dvpower wrote: »
    Your list could include almost anyone who invested in property or many othet assets in the last 10 years, making it a pretty pointless list.

    why all this there is only one gsame in town lark, lemmings over the cliff lark, one of mine would not speat to me for over a year as i would not buy a house plus three sites, i wished to invest in gold before it became the only game in town, it was pointed out to me the loans the benifits etc which were advailable for the lemmings, so please can you not see some other persons point of view


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    #7840
    ncdadam
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 598 ✭✭✭ncdadam


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    We will wait to see if this is true or can you give your source? And I don't know what you mean by ring fenced. I think it would be reasonable to expect people to provide a tax clearance certificate before handing over a college grant given the number of tax dodgers in the wealthy classes being uncovered by the Revenue.

    People are happy to take thousands for Child Benefit and then expect thousands more for college grants but won't hand over €100 for the HHC. And some of these same people are on here shouting for increments for public service workers to be stopped.

    Why are the wealthy getting college grants in the first place?
    Mind you dx, by your reckoning, if you own a property your deemed wealthy.


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    #7841
    ncdadam
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 598 ✭✭✭ncdadam


    donalg1 wrote: »
    don't see how you can say its blackmail they are telling them if they want a service they have to pay for it. Seems like a normal order of business really. If someone said to me " ill give you 2000+ if you give me 100" I wouldn't be calling it blackmail id call it a brilliant deal

    Did you get grants for college donal?


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    #7842
    ncdadam
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 598 ✭✭✭ncdadam


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    You're one of the ones asking for workers increments to be stopped. Meaning that new entrants processing these transfers of wealth from the taxpayer to you are kept on their starting wage forever. How moral is that?

    Anyway I'm not convinced yet about this college thing. The only thing I can find is the first post on this thread which shows a copy of a letter which may or may not be genuine.

    http://www.peoplesrepublicofcork.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212099

    If that letter is genuine it's an utter disgrace. That's all.


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    #7843
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,027 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    ncdadam wrote: »
    If that letter is genuine it's an utter disgrace. That's all.

    Fairly easy solution for whoever gets one. Take it to your local CAHWT representative. They will sort it out, probably by organising a mass protest.


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    #7844
    ncdadam
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 598 ✭✭✭ncdadam


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Fairly easy solution for whoever gets one. Take it to your local CAHWT representative. They will sort it out, probably by organising a mass protest.

    Jesus, has dv taken over your keyboard? the sarcasm doesn't suit you!

    I couldn't even tell you who the CAHWT are in my area. I've nothing to do with any groups (apart from on here).
    Anyway, I'm not against water charges only house owners ground rent.


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    #7845
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Fairly easy solution for whoever gets one. Take it to your local CAHWT representative. They will sort it out, probably by organising a mass protest.

    Pretty fixated with the CAHWT it seems, you mention them fairly regularly in your posts.
    Funny thing is, most of the non payers/anti tax people have zero involvement with, or any dealings with the campaign.

    The beauty of any protests against The hhc is that you have to simply do nothing. Don't register your name, don't pay any money. (I'm surprised this hasn't sunk in yet tbh)

    The country will see mass protests next year though, once they're being asked to pay multiples of the hhc with nothing in return for paying it, the streets will be overrun with angry protestors, that is inevitable.

    That's assuming this current coalition is still in govt at that stage though. After the budget, and with serious cracks and rifts already appearing, that remains to be seen though.

    I'm looking forward to the ensuing trouble tbh, its high time the public made that stand the countries been waiting for.


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    #7846
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    You're one of the ones asking for workers increments to be stopped. Meaning that new entrants processing these transfers of wealth from the taxpayer to you are kept on their starting wage forever. How moral is that?

    It is just as moral, or immoral, which ever way you look at it, as charging a tax on a family home.


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    #7847
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    flutered wrote: »
    why all this there is only one gsame in town lark, lemmings over the cliff lark, one of mine would not speat to me for over a year as i would not buy a house plus three sites, i wished to invest in gold before it became the only game in town, it was pointed out to me the loans the benifits etc which were advailable for the lemmings, so please can you not see some other persons point of view
    I might, if I could understand what it is.:confused:


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    #7848
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    Ghandee wrote: »
    The beauty of any protests against The hhc is that you have to simply do nothing. Don't register your name, don't pay any money. (I'm surprised this hasn't sunk in yet tbh)
    That’s pretty much what we have been saying! It takes no effort (or money!) to join the revolution; you need to make an effort NOT to be part of it. That coupled with the miniscule late payment fees surely reinforces the view that a sizeable chunk of the 600,000 are “wait and see” people rather than principled objectors.
    Ghandee wrote: »
    The country will see mass protests next year though, once they're being asked to pay multiples of the hhc with nothing in return for paying it, the streets will be overrun with angry protestors, that is inevitable.
    And perhaps this might lead to the government falling. Then what? Do you think if the government goes away then so too will our problems?

    It mightn’t be a bad thing if the government did fall, it might (or might not!) put a stop to this nonsense that there is some painless way to fix our problems, if only we elected the right politicians! :rolleyes:
    darkhorse wrote: »
    It is just as moral, or immoral, which ever way you look at it, as charging a tax on a family home.
    Ah, this again! Has anyone managed to figure out yet why it is immoral to tax a person’s home but perfectly moral to tax their livelihood?


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    #7849
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    lugha wrote: »
    Has anyone managed to figure out yet why it is immoral to tax a person’s home but perfectly moral to tax their livelihood?
    Cue 18 year old Enda Kenny quotes.


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    #7850
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    dvpower wrote: »
    Cue 18 year old Enda Kenny quotes.

    I can't speak for other posters, but i certainly have no quotes from enda when he was only 18.


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    #7851
    Jellicoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 492 ✭✭Jellicoe


    dvpower wrote: »
    Cue 18 year old Enda Kenny quotes.

    Cue the fact that lies are ok when looking after corrupt cronies in the golden cirlce


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    #7852
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    You're one of the ones asking for workers increments to be stopped. Meaning that new entrants processing these transfers of wealth from the taxpayer to you are kept on their starting wage forever. How moral is that?

    Anyway I'm not convinced yet about this college thing. The only thing I can find is the first post on this thread which shows a copy of a letter which may or may not be genuine.

    http://www.peoplesrepublicofcork.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212099

    If that letter is genuine it's an utter disgrace. That's all.

    Why its basically saying you give us 100 and we will give you back 2000. I fail to see the disgraceful part, seems quite nice to me.


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    #7853
    ncdadam
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 598 ✭✭✭ncdadam


    lugha wrote: »
    Ah, this again! Has anyone managed to figure out yet why it is immoral to tax a person’s home but perfectly moral to tax their livelihood?

    How about this then, do you consider a cash savings as an asset?


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    #7854
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,833 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Why its basically saying you give us 100 and we will give you back 2000. I fail to see the disgraceful part, seems quite nice to me.

    No its forcing a person to do something against there will using there childs education. If you cannot see that then there is no hope for you.

    College grants are not a service provided for by the HHC so why are they using it against this person?


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    #7855
    ncdadam
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 598 ✭✭✭ncdadam


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Why its basically saying you give us 100 and we will give you back 2000. I fail to see the disgraceful part, seems quite nice to me.

    Did you get college grants donal?


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    #7856
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    ncdadam wrote: »
    How about this then, do you consider a cash savings as an asset?
    :confused: I don't know where you are going with this but I'm going to say yes. Are you going to spring a cunning and devious trap on me??? :(


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    #7857
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    Hijpo wrote: »
    No its forcing a person to do something against there will using there childs education. If you cannot see that then there is no hope for you.

    College grants are not a service provided for by the HHC so why are they using it against this person?

    Alternative, no college grant, kid doesn't go to college, years on the dole, state provided house, etc etc etc.

    Someone, somewhere didn't think that one through.

    Most likely a scare tactic hoax I'd say.


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    #7858
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    Hijpo wrote: »
    No its forcing a person to do something against there will using there childs education. If you cannot see that then there is no hope for you.

    College grants are not a service provided for by the HHC so why are they using it against this person?
    Like some others, I have doubts about this grant story. The anti crowd would be all over it if it were true IMO.


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    #7859
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Why its basically saying you give us 100 and we will give you back 2000. I fail to see the disgraceful part, seems quite nice to me.
    Hijpo wrote: »

    No its forcing a person to do something against there will using there childs education. If you cannot see that then there is no hope for you.

    College grants are not a service provided for by the HHC so why are they using it against this person?

    The hhc is supposed to he used for local services provided by the council, the grant is a service provided by the council. What's not to understand.

    Girl: can you provide me with a service

    Council: yes if you pay for it

    Girl: I don't want to

    Council: we can't provide you with this service then

    Girl: that's not fair I'm telling facebook

    Facebook people: omg that is like soooo unfair

    If you can't see that people should pay for services they expect to receive or want to avail of then there is no hope for you.


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    #7860
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Why its basically saying you give us 100 and we will give you back 2000. I fail to see the disgraceful part, seems quite nice to me.
    ncdadam wrote: »
    Did you get college grants donal?

    Nope. But if someone wants to turn €100 into €2000 for me I won't be on facebook crying about it. I'd be absolutely delighted.


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    #7861
    ncdadam
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 598 ✭✭✭ncdadam


    lugha wrote: »
    :confused: I don't know where you are going with this but I'm going to say yes. Are you going to spring a cunning and devious trap on me??? :(

    No, I'm just wondering if it would be possible to tax these too, there's supposed to be €140 billion in savings in Ireland, twice what is normal for a country of our size.
    DIRT only taxes the interest, I'm wondering should we not tax the principle, it might encourage people to spend some of the money in our domestic economy and maybe start creating some jobs etc etc.
    Now I know people will jump on me here about the run's on the banks and all that but we could bring in a law stopping this happening. Anything's possible when it comes to the banks you know.
    As far as I know DIRT is liable on savings abroad too so it would be a natural extension of this.


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