Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

Anyway, what has this to do with FG? - it looks like an executive decision by the council.

They introduced the hhc, and Hogan had been slashing their budgets?

bamboozle

dvpower wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0918/clare-students-household.html

It appears that that college grant story has some truth to it.

good to see. Hope the other county council's follow suit and apply this logic across all grants/allowances paid out to ensure that all member in our society are contributing on some small scale.

CardBordWindow

Clare Co Co are looking for proof of payment.
Were any receipts given when the charge was paid? I know my mother recieved none.
Do the Council not have a list of people who paid?

donalg1

CardBordWindow wrote: »

Clare Co Co are looking for proof of payment.
Were any receipts given when the charge was paid? I know my mother recieved none.
Do the Council not have a list of people who paid?

I got one when I paid anyway, I paid online and got the receipt straight away.

seamus

I love the indignation coming out of this.

"I demand that the local authority give me free money but I refuse to pay my tax on principle"

The Anti-HHC people have no moral authority on which to complain that college grants are being scrutinised. If you're refusing to contribute, don't be surprised when they start turning off the taps.

My bet is that more of this kind of stuff will appear where the councils hold back non-essential payments and services until the householder can prove they've paid their charge. Proper order too.

donalg1

seamus wrote: »

I love the indignation coming out of this.

"I demand that the local authority give me free money but I refuse to pay my tax on principle"

The Anti-HHC people have no moral authority on which to complain that college grants are being scrutinised. If you're refusing to contribute, don't be surprised when they start turning off the taps.

My bet is that more of this kind of stuff will appear where the councils hold back non-essential payments and services until the householder can prove they've paid their charge. Proper order too.

The facebook comments were cracking me up last night I like you could not believe people were actually getting annoyed by this, I mean talk about missing the point.

tayto lover

seamus wrote: »

I love the indignation coming out of this.

"I demand that the local authority give me free money but I refuse to pay my tax on principle"

The Anti-HHC people have no moral authority on which to complain that college grants are being scrutinised. If you're refusing to contribute, don't be surprised when they start turning off the taps.

My bet is that more of this kind of stuff will appear where the councils hold back non-essential payments and services until the householder can prove they've paid their charge. Proper order too.

Well I never got any grants for education so i'm still not paying the HHC.
I can see this taking people onto the streets though as it's not aimed at the home owners but at their children, many of whom are over 18 years and as such adults in their own right.

Also it could be used to target dole reciepients too. No HHC paid -- no dole.

mikom

Listen up folks.

No grants for the education of the children of Clare until these payments are made..........

an Irish Examiner investigation into the pay of those at the top of each council reveals where large sums of taxpayers’ money is really going.

Clare
County manager (Tom Coughlan): €142,469
Chief veterinary inspector: €93,436 to €109,927
4 directors of services: €90,453 to €106,900
2 senior engineers: €73,223 to €87,117
Chief fire officer: €73,223 to €87,117
Senior executive officer: €64,426 to €84,036
* What the top 10 earn: €1,025,383

To think that people are cheerleading this move is sickening.
A race to the bottom.

bamboozle

mikom wrote: »

Listen up folks.

No grants for the education of the children of Clare until these payments are made..........



To think that people are cheerleading this move is sickening.
A race to the bottom.

why is it sickening?

unfortunately, we are stuck in a situation where croke park has protected the highly inflated salaries of the public service many of which are still increasing through pay increments annually. This is sickening.

the state is paying €9 billion for salaries in the HSE alone. this is sickening.

Having to pay your household charge prior to receiving these generous grants is far from sickening, its a logical stipulation put in place at a time when this country is borrowing millions every day to pay the over inflated salaries of paid public service workers.

tayto lover

bamboozle wrote: »

why is it sickening?

unfortunately, we are stuck in a situation where croke park has protected the highly inflated salaries of the public service many of which are still increasing through pay increments annually. This is sickening.

the state is paying €9 billion for salaries in the HSE alone. this is sickening.

Having to pay your household charge prior to receiving these generous grants is far from sickening, its a logical stipulation put in place at a time when this country is borrowing millions every day to pay the over inflated salaries of paid public service workers.

From my checking of the situation regarding grants I have found that very few Public Sector workers qualify for them in fairness. The vast majority seem to be obtained by children of farmers, private sector workers and self-employed.
It is my opinion that this method of Clare Co Co is seriously out of order. It is not the parent who is seeking the grant but the student, the vast majority of whom are over 18 years old and not earning. These students do not own property at all.

ncdadam

donalg1 wrote: »

The facebook comments were cracking me up last night I like you could not believe people were actually getting annoyed by this, I mean talk about missing the point.

You do miss the point a lot, don't you.

bgrizzley

seamus wrote: »

I love the indignation coming out of this.

"I demand that the local authority give me free money but I refuse to pay my tax on principle"

The Anti-HHC people have no moral authority on which to complain that college grants are being scrutinised. If you're refusing to contribute, don't be surprised when they start turning off the taps.

My bet is that more of this kind of stuff will appear where the councils hold back non-essential payments and services until the householder can prove they've paid their charge. Proper order too.

who do you think pays for everthing in this country already? just cause you doled out the princely sum of E100 to the government doesnt make you one jot better than anyone else.

try to remember where the country would be if the non HCC payers decided to stop paying all their taxes.

darkhorse

lugha wrote: »

Your house generates an income of about €10K on average (taking about €850) as an average rent.

Wrong, my home does not, nor did it ever generate an income. I am not a landlord.

ncdadam

bamboozle wrote: »

why is it sickening?

unfortunately, we are stuck in a situation where croke park has protected the highly inflated salaries of the public service many of which are still increasing through pay increments annually. This is sickening.

the state is paying €9 billion for salaries in the HSE alone. this is sickening.

Having to pay your household charge prior to receiving these generous grants is far from sickening, its a logical stipulation put in place at a time when this country is borrowing millions every day to pay the over inflated salaries of paid public service workers.

Should the CPA not be tackled then, they would raise a lot more than €160 million if this country was brought into line with the rest of europe.
Maybe benckmark PS pay to the UK, I mean the UK is always used as an example by people justifying the HHC.

seamus

tayto lover wrote: »

It is my opinion that this method of Clare Co Co is seriously out of order. It is not the parent who is seeking the grant but the student, the vast majority of whom are over 18 years old and not earning. These students do not own property at all.

The grant has always been assessed in relation to parental income and other means, so this isn't any departure from standard practice.
The point of the household charge is to fund services to the household, of which the student is presumably a part.

In some cases though parental income is taken into account even if the student isn't living at home, and I agree in those cases it would be unfair on the student to be refused on the basis that his parents hadn't paid their HHC.

try to remember where the country would be if the non HCC payers decided to stop paying all their taxes.

Given the profile of the kind of people who oppose the HHC, I suspect that the loss to the exchequer would be a lot less than you think.

donalg1

ncdadam wrote: »

You do miss the point a lot, don't you.

Nope

ncdadam

lugha wrote: »

Your house generates an income of about €10K on average (taking about €850) as an average rent.

Absolute bullsh1te.
In fact I've never heard such a load of tripe in all my life.
The scrapings from the bottom of the barrel of bullsh1te arguments.

tayto lover

ncdadam wrote: »

Should the CPA not be tackled then, they would raise a lot more than €160 million if this country was brought into line with the rest of europe.
Maybe benckmark PS pay to the UK, I mean the UK is always used as an example by people justifying the HHC.

Rather than attacking the pay of the lower PS earners why not demolish most of the 800 Quangos we are wasting money on just to provide work for the Government's pals and appointees?

ArmaniJeanss

tayto lover wrote: »

It is my opinion that this method of Clare Co Co is seriously out of order. It is not the parent who is seeking the grant but the student, the vast majority of whom are over 18 years old and not earning. These students do not own property at all.

The grant has always been based on the parents finances. If it was just the income of the 18 year old then ~99.99% of students would qualify for a grant.

ncdadam

seamus wrote: »

Given the profile of the kind of people who oppose the HHC, I suspect that the loss to the exchequer would be a lot less than you think.

Another clueless post.
Mind you don't fall off that high horse!

darkhorse

lugha wrote: »

Also, on the stamp duty thing, a point which I don’t think has been made is that had stamp duty being abolished, it is quite likely that the developers would up their prices by an equivalent amount and made (and lost!) even more money.
QUOTE]

Do you agree that the stamp that I paid was a tax, yes or no.

ncdadam

tayto lover wrote: »

Rather than attacking the pay of the lower PS earners why not demolish most of the 800 Quangos we are wasting money on just to provide work for the Government's pals and appointees?

That's what I mean, anyone on under €40k in the PS should be left alone.

bamboozle

tayto lover wrote: »

Rather than attacking the pay of the lower PS earners why not demolish most of the 800 Quangos we are wasting money on just to provide work for the Government's pals and appointees?

who said anything about attacking the pay of the lower PS workers????

reviewing all public sector salaries and benchmarking them against european and or UK equivalents is a whole lot different than 'attacking' salaries.

People should be paid what their job is worth NOT what their salary has balooned into as a result of lots of benchmarking. In the majority of cases these inflated salaries are of middle and upper mgt in the public service earning 50k plus.

Fully agree the quango's should be tackled as should the greatest joke in Irish politics the Seanad which has done nothing of note since 1964 when it rejected the pawnbrokers bill.

donalg1

tayto lover wrote: »

From my checking of the situation regarding grants I have found that very few Public Sector workers qualify for them in fairness. The vast majority seem to be obtained by children of farmers, private sector workers and self-employed.
It is my opinion that this method of Clare Co Co is seriously out of order. It is not the parent who is seeking the grant but the student, the vast majority of whom are over 18 years old and not earning. These students do not own property at all.

The Council are saying to the parents you give us €100 and we will pay €2000 or more for your childs third level education, I fail to see what the problem is here. The alternative is for the parents to say "no we arent paying the HHC and will therefore pay for our child to go to college", its very straight forward.

bgrizzley

seamus wrote: »

Given the profile of the kind of people who oppose the HHC, I suspect that the loss to the exchequer would be a lot less than you think.

what profile would that be?

kevmol88

Students seeking third level grants in Kerry will not be asked for proof of payment of the household charge, Kerry County Council has confirmed.

http://www.facebook.com/kerryseye

darkhorse

lugha wrote: »

If you bought a house to let you would pay tax on the income you earn, even though you have already paid tax when buying the house. And yet you hear little about how immoral it is those with more than one house are being hit with NPPR tax. Surely this tax is also immoral?

Yes it is immoral. This is another charge, which the govt. brought in 2009, in my opinion to add to the pot for to pay bondholders. Otherwise, why was it not brought in decades ago.

seamus

bgrizzley wrote: »

what profile would that be?

People who already pay very little income tax, relatively speaking. 95% of all income tax is paid by people earning €35k or more.

The other 62% of the population contribute 5% of the income tax. I would put good money on the bet that the majority of the anti-HHC people are in that bracket.

hiram

Heard in the news that councils are asking for proof that students families have paid the HC before issuing grants. Is this crossing the line? I think so.

JohnMarston

It does seem very underhanded alright