Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

Walt Jabsco

Last years payments to said Clare County Councillors......
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfeyeykfeysn/rss2/#.UFicru6VySY.facebook

Le_Dieux

seamus wrote: »

People who already pay very little income tax, relatively speaking. 95% of all income tax is paid by people earning €35k or more.

The other 62% of the population contribute 5% of the income tax. I would put good money on the bet that the majority of the anti-HHC people are in that bracket.

I take SERIOUS issue with this verbal diahorrea being spewed here.

I am self employed, pay my taxes, which is a serious struggle but gettig there, pay PRSI for which I get SFA in return, yet havn't paid the HHC, nor am I going to. And, I MOST CERTAINLY don't pay myself €35k/annum...far LESS!!!

So, Your assumption on that 62% is way off the mark as far as I am concerned.

Think You should stop being so effing presumptious!!!:mad::mad::mad:

Lorgach

Ghandee wrote: »

Pretty fixated with the CAHWT it seems, you mention them fairly regularly in your posts.
Funny thing is, most of the non payers/anti tax people have zero involvement with, or any dealings with the campaign.

The beauty of any protests against The hhc is that you have to simply do nothing. Don't register your name, don't pay any money. (I'm surprised this hasn't sunk in yet tbh)

The country will see mass protests next year though, once they're being asked to pay multiples of the hhc with nothing in return for paying it, the streets will be overrun with angry protestors, that is inevitable.

That's assuming this current coalition is still in govt at that stage though. After the budget, and with serious cracks and rifts already appearing, that remains to be seen though.

I'm looking forward to the ensuing trouble tbh, its high time the public made that stand the countries been waiting for.

Mass protests ??? . . . Streets overrun with angry protesters ???. . . I don't think so Ghandee. . . This is Ireland, the place where the spineless majority have always depended on the militant minority to achieve their required goals. . . . You only have to look at a little history to realise this.

ncdadam

Lorgach wrote: »

Mass protests ??? . . . Streets overrun with angry protesters ???. . . I don't think so Ghandee. . . This is Ireland, the place where the spineless majority have always depended on the militant minority to achieve their required goals. . . . You only have to look at a little history to realise this.

Very true.

Le_Dieux

Ghandee wrote: »

Did you receive the first invoice, or just reminder letters?

TT, Mind me asking what's Your circumstances? Reason for me asking is that according to some others on this thread, ONLY people who had more than one house would or already have received the reminders.

I live in the house I am paying a mortgage for, and have not received ANY letter/reminder so far. BTW, I am in the KCC jurisdiction.

ncdadam

So Howlin said he was going to cut €75 million, or just under half what the HHC was meant to bring in, in allowances for our poor overworked public servants and he managed to cut.......wait for it.........€3.5 million.
Right good at hitting their targets this shower aren't they?

Bishop_Donal

I genuinely don't understand the pseudo anger over the linking of the processing of grants with the payment of the HHC. Those who argued against the payment consistently pointed out that they were getting nothing for the payment. Pretty inconsistent to then expect Local Authorities to process anything for those who havn't paid then!!

As a compliant non-defaulter, I would have a major issue with my contribution being used to fund the processing of applications for grants (or anything else for that matter) for those who won't contribute their share.

Of course when they elect to becoming full members of society again (i.e. by paying their bill and associated interest & penalties) I would be delighted to see their applications processed (with worthy applicants receiving an appropriate / modest level of support in line with the ability of the country to support).

Jellicoe

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Of course when they elect to becoming full members of society again (i.e. by paying their bill and associated interest & penalties) I would be delighted to see their applications processed (with worthy applicants receiving an appropriate / modest level of support in line with the ability of the country to support).

When are the billionaire secret bondholders, and bertie, seanie, fitzie, dunner, and paddy de plasterer, and all those other cohorts going to become "full members of society again" ?

Bishop_Donal

Jellicoe wrote: »

When are the billionaire secret bondholders, and bertie, seanie, fitzie, dunner, and paddy de plasterer, and all those other cohorts going to become "full members of society again" ?

Same day as Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness and Mick Wallace.

NedKinsella

People who do not get water or sewage services from local authorities are being asked to pay this extra tax. We already pay paye at extortionate rates and usc which should go to pay for public services. we pay ridiculous amounts of motoring taxes for roads that for the most part are in awful condition. They are using all sorts of excuses to justify additional taxation which in reality is goiing to pay compensation to billionaire bankers who took a punt on the Irish economy and for once lost. Only they didnt lose because we are being asked to pay them off. its time the people of Ireland woke up to what is going on and said enough is enough.
Politicians and big business are trying to muddy the water by creating conflicts between urban and rural dwellers, between public sector workers and private sector workers and divert attention from the real issue.

Jellicoe

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Same day as Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness and Mick Wallace.

When's that then ?

You seem to be under the delusion that there’s a difference

Jellicoe

NedKinsella wrote: »

Politicians and big business are trying to muddy the water by creating conflicts between urban and rural dwellers, between public sector workers and private sector workers and divert attention from the real issue.

Question is, when is the docile and duped Irish public going to cop this and do something about it ?

Bishop_Donal

NedKinsella wrote: »

People who do not get water or sewage services from local authorities are being asked to pay this extra tax. We already pay paye at extortionate rates and usc which should go to pay for public services. we pay ridiculous amounts of motoring taxes for roads that for the most part are in awful condition. They are using all sorts of excuses to justify additional taxation which in reality is goiing to pay compensation to billionaire bankers who took a punt on the Irish economy and for once lost. Only they didnt lose because we are being asked to pay them off. its time the people of Ireland woke up to what is going on and said enough is enough.
Politicians and big business are trying to muddy the water by creating conflicts between urban and rural dwellers, between public sector workers and private sector workers and divert attention from the real issue.

Remember we have not paid one red cent of the offensive bank debt to date. Every cent that has been repaid has come from fresh borrowings.

The only thing that we are paying increased taxes for at the moment are the costs of running our own affairs.

Accordingly, the only basis upon which you can legitimately object to the payment of increased taxes is dissatisfaction with the way the money is being disbursed (which basically is the cause of the conflict between the private and public sectors).

NedKinsella

Jellicoe wrote: »

Question is, when is the docile and duped Irish public going to cop this and do something about it ?

It seems to be taking a hell of a long time. People need to wake up before its too late. Its not just our generation rhat is being sold out. Our kids and probably grand kids will pay for this.

Bishop_Donal

Jellicoe wrote: »

When's that then ?

You seem to be under the delusion that there’s a difference

Don't see your point? I find it hard to see when any of them will ever be seen as upstanding members of society again. One way or another, it sure as hell doesn't justify other people defaulting on their taxes or legitimately imposed charges as determined by the democratically elected government of the day.

bgrizzley

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

I genuinely don't understand the pseudo anger over the linking of the processing of grants with the payment of the HHC. Those who argued against the payment consistently pointed out that they were getting nothing for the payment. Pretty inconsistent to then expect Local Authorities to process anything for those who havn't paid then!!

As a compliant non-defaulter, I would have a major issue with my contribution being used to fund the processing of applications for grants (or anything else for that matter) for those who won't contribute their share.

Of course when they elect to becoming full members of society again (i.e. by paying their bill and associated interest & penalties) I would be delighted to see their applications processed (with worthy applicants receiving an appropriate / modest level of support in line with the ability of the country to support).

thats ok Donal, i still dont mind all my taxes going to pay for all your services. enjoy!

tayto lover

NedKinsella wrote: »

People who do not get water or sewage services from local authorities are being asked to pay this extra tax. We already pay paye at extortionate rates and usc which should go to pay for public services. we pay ridiculous amounts of motoring taxes for roads that for the most part are in awful condition. They are using all sorts of excuses to justify additional taxation which in reality is goiing to pay compensation to billionaire bankers who took a punt on the Irish economy and for once lost. Only they didnt lose because we are being asked to pay them off. its time the people of Ireland woke up to what is going on and said enough is enough.
Politicians and big business are trying to muddy the water by creating conflicts between urban and rural dwellers, between public sector workers and private sector workers and divert attention from the real issue.

Exactly as I have been saying for a long time. The Govt's policy of divide and conquer is working and all you have to do is read these threads to see that. Both Sectors should be uniting to fight these unfair measures. The wealth of the country has been stolen to pay bondholders and bankers. NAMA is even employing the speculators at 200k per year FFS.

Bishop_Donal

bgrizzley wrote: »

thats ok Donal, i still dont mind all my taxes going to pay for all your services. enjoy!

Thanks a mil (and very thoughtful), but my own taxes certainly cover my own share already ( a few times over).:p

Slick50

lugha wrote: »

Ah, this again! Has anyone managed to figure out yet why it is immoral to tax a person’s home but perfectly moral to tax their livelihood?

It is immoral to tax your home, because it is an avenue to gaining the right to remove you from your property. The right to shelter is a human right, which is why so many people are given housing by the state. So it is immoral to put a person in a position where they can be denied that shelter, they have provided for themselves.

Taxing someone's income is based on their ability to pay, as it is a percentage of their income, and not discriminatory between people with the same income.

lugha wrote: »

If you bought a house to let you would pay tax on the income you earn, even though you have already paid tax when buying the house. And yet you hear little about how immoral it is those with more than one house are being hit with NPPR tax. Surely this tax is also immoral?

You're being disingenuous here. If you buy a house to let, you have started a business, and will pay tax on the earnings from that business.

lugha wrote: »

Your house generates an income of about €10K on average (taking about €850) as an average rent. If the property tax exceeds this amount then I think it would be similar to taking a chunk of someone’s saving (as opposed to tax on the income those savings generate in interest accrued). But I don’t think the property tax will be €10K!

Your house may generate this sort of money if you are prepared to vacate it, but you're going to have to live somewhere. So what are you going to do??? rent??? There will probably be no net gain, just a lot of hassle. Of course this has been suggested as a "legitimate way of avoiding the HHC, except you have to sell the house and rent.

Even the government thinks if you are willing to sacrifice your privacy in your own home for €10k, you're welcome to it, tax free.

NedKinsella

tayto lover wrote: »

Exactly as I have been saying for a long time. The Govt's policy of divide and conquer is working and all you have to do is read these threads to see that. Both Sectors should be uniting to fight these unfair measures. The wealth of the country has been stolen to pay bondholders and bankers. NAMA is even employing the speculators at 200k per year FFS.

All we need now is for about a million other taxpayers to see that. All paye workers should unite and fight this. We are paying for the greed of billionaires and speculators. Some are now being paid by nama while others hide abroad and use more liberal bankruptcy laws to avoid being bankrupt here. Apparently its all perfectly legal but then who owns the lawmakers. this country is ruled by the rich and their puppets for their benefit and the ordinary worker is there to pay for it all.

dvpower

tiny timy wrote: »

Received my 3rd and final bully letter from south dublin county council telling me for to pay up or else ''the legislation also allows for the pursuance of this charge through a legal process,please note that legal proceedings will be initiated if payment is not received within 10 days from the date of this letter.these proceedings could ultimately lead to conviction,for which you will be liable to pay all associated costs and expenses''. Heavy stuff.anyone else receive a letter like this and if so, what is your plan?
Thanks

You are basically screwed. They have you in their sights and will likely move to prosecution.
I think the maximum fine is something around €2000, but the LAs have indicated that they will be looking for their legal costs, which could be substantial.

So you need to weigh the risk of all of these potential costs against the cost of paying up.

Maybe the campaign will help you, but I fear that the only support they will be providing will be moral. No doubt many on this thread will encourage you to hold out, bit they won't be organizing a whip around.

Am Chile

tiny timy wrote: »

Received my 3rd and final bully letter from south dublin county council telling me for to pay up or else ''the legislation also allows for the pursuance of this charge through a legal process,please note that legal proceedings will be initiated if payment is not received within 10 days from the date of this letter.these proceedings could ultimately lead to conviction,for which you will be liable to pay all associated costs and expenses''. Heavy stuff.anyone else receive a letter like this and if so, what is your plan?
Thanks

Have you decided how far you re prepared to go, whether pay the household tax or go to court over it ? if you re deciding to go to court you should contact your local anti household tax campaign, get legal assistance from them, since the national anti household tax campaign pledged to legally assist people.

tiny timy

You are basically screwed. They have you in their sights and will likely move to prosecution.
I think the maximum fine is something around €2000, but the LAs have indicated that they will be looking for their legal costs, which could be substantial.

So you need to weigh the risk of all of these potential costs against the cost of paying up.

Maybe the campaign will help you, but I fear that the only support they will be providing will be moral. No doubt many on this thread will encourage you to hold out, bit they won't be organizing a whip around.[/Quote]

Thanks for reply dvpower,
You are on my kinda thinking alright.think im gona have to give into the bastards on this.sickens my hole how bullys can carry on like this.fat phil and his arrogant fcuking head,what an a$$hole. Anyway,thanks for reply

Bishop_Donal

tiny timy wrote: »

Thanks for reply dvpower,
You are on my kinda thinking alright.think im gona have to give into the bastards on this.sickens my hole how bullys can carry on like this.fat phil and his arrogant fcuking head,what an a$$hole. Anyway,thanks for reply

Are you the only one who has rec'd these letters? (or are you aware of others?)
How did they identify you?

dxhound2005

tiny timy wrote: »

You are basically screwed. They have you in their sights and will likely move to prosecution.
I think the maximum fine is something around €2000, but the LAs have indicated that they will be looking for their legal costs, which could be substantial.

So you need to weigh the risk of all of these potential costs against the cost of paying up.

Maybe the campaign will help you, but I fear that the only support they will be providing will be moral. No doubt many on this thread will encourage you to hold out, bit they won't be organizing a whip around.

Thanks for reply dvpower,
You are on my kinda thinking alright.think im gona have to give into the bastards on this.sickens my hole how bullys can carry on like this.fat phil and his arrogant fcuking head,what an a$$hole. Anyway,thanks for reply[/QUOTE]

Any other laws you need advice on breaking just ask.

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

are basically screwed. They have you in their sights and will likely move to prosecution.
I think the maximum fine is something around €2000, but the LAs have indicated that they will be looking for their legal costs, which could be substantial.

So you need to weigh the risk of all of these potential costs against the cost of paying up.

Maybe the campaign will help you, but I fear that the only support they will be providing will be moral. No doubt many on this thread will encourage you to hold out, bit they won't be organizing a whip around.

What happens if I don't pay or don’t pay on time?

An owner of a residential property who does not pay a Household Charge or an instalment thereof by the due date will be subject to (1) LATE PAYMENT FEES and (2) LATE PAYMENT INTEREST

(1) LATE PAYMENT FEES

The late payment fee to apply in the case of a Household Charge paid:

(2) LATE PAYMENT INTEREST

Late payment interest of 1% per month or part thereof will apply to unpaid amounts.

Furthermore, both the €100 charge and any accumulated late payment fee will be a charge against the property concerned and will continue to be such for twelve years after the charge or late payment penalties concerned became due. Any Household Charges or late payment penalties due on a residential property will have to be discharged, in full, before a transfer or sale of the property can be completed.

When do I become liable to pay the household charge?

As set out in the Local Government (Household Charge) Act 2011, liability to pay the charge is determined on the basis of ownership of the property in question on a single day each year. This date, which is called the "liability date", is the 1st of January. The charge must be paid within three months (31st March) of the liability date in order to avoid late payment penalties.

I cannot see anywhere in the legislation where it states anyone not paying will be brought to court if it wasn't paid by a certain date? What if this poster had already decided to pay in march 2013 with penalties?

Here's what three website says:

What happens if I don't pay?

A person who does not pay the Household Charge by the payment date leaves themselves open to a late payment fee plus interest. Furthermore, the Household Charge and any accumulated late payment fee plus interest will be a charge against the property concerned and will continue to be such for twelve years after the charge or late payment fees plus interest concerned became due. Any Household Charges or late payment fees plus interest due on a residential property will have to be discharged, in full, before a transfer or sale of the property can be completed.

The table below outlines the Household Charge and the corresponding late payment fees plus interest for each year at monthly intervals

Where does it state that a non payer could/will be taken to court and be 'screwed'?

All I can see is what we already knew, the charge would be attached along with penalties for a maximum of twelve years.

Would you be spinning a yarn DV?

dvpower

@ghandee

Read the legislation.

tiny timy

Are you the only one who has rec'd these letters? (or are you aware of others?)
How did they identify you?[/Quote]
Not alone,seen on other sites where people have received them.dont know how they pulled my name out but im gona have to pay,havent got 2000+ to have to fork out. Probably just testing the waters with these threats to attack and make examples of those that challenge the tax so they can attack the rest of the country

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

@ghandee

Read the legislation.

I'm a busy man tonight, doing work for eh..... Work!

Maybe you could do what I just did and point it out for me?

I can't see the court threats?

I'll look properly through the legislation tomorrow, deadlines to meet !

Edit, is this what you're referring to?

Offences

The Local Government (Household Charge) Act 2011 provides for a number of offences related to the household charge. The main offences relate to failure to declare a liability to a household charge, failure to pay it and to provide information that is false or misleading. The Act also provides for fines and other sanctions for persons found guilty of offences.

Lol.......

Bishop_Donal

tiny timy wrote: »

Not alone,seen on other sites where people have received them.dont know how they pulled my name out but im gona have to pay,havent got 2000+ to have to fork out. Probably just testing the waters with these threats to attack and make examples of those that challenge the tax so they can attack the rest of the country

Did the letter expressly threaten you with a fine of Eur2k (and if so, did it indicate the legislative basis for this)?
Presume that will just be added to the rest of the charge on your property if you choose the non-compliance route.