Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

ncdadam

dvpower wrote: »

So you know for a fact that: If you didn't e own a house the LA will put you up for €30 a week. based on the fact that you once rented a place to the council for the same price and you know some people who average at that rent!

I don't think you're trolling - I think its way worse than that.


Edit: I can understand why, as a landlord, you might be against property taxes. A big huge vested interest.

EDIT Notice the word 'had' in there, no?
I reckon your vested interests are quite huge though.
It's amazing how much you think you know about things,isn't it?
Is this what we pay you for, to sit at a desk trolling on boards.ie all day?

ncdadam

Slurryface wrote: »

Surely the simple thing for the Government to do is require that anyone looking for anything from the state Medical Card, SW Payment,Planning Permission,Tax Free Allowance,Exam registration,Grants, etc) should have to provide either a payment reciept number or Waiver number for the address at which they reside. No pay no get anything from the state. Simples:)

Thank God I don't require any of the above from the state.
Thank God I don't require anything from the state, the state should be thanking me for contributing so much to their coffers and not taking anything back.
Tax free allowance? LMAO!
No tax free allowance, no tax!

darkhorse

lugha wrote: »

Whether it is taxed or not is besides my point that there is a nominal income from living in your own home. And FWIW, it was taxed once. See here

According to this guy, my home should be treated as a benefit in kind, just like a company car, that is actually supplied by a company. Only thing is, my home has not been supplied by a company, I had to borrow money to build/buy my home.
Here is how the revenue describe benefit in kind:
Benefits-in-kind, such as private use of a company car, free or subsidised accommodation and preferential loans, received from an employer, by an employee whose total remuneration (including benefits-in-kind) is €1,905 or more in a tax year, are taxable (subject to certain exceptions).

By the way, it is the easiest thing in the world for someone with no money worries, to give advice on what the citizens of a state should be paying for, regardless of how it may affect their future financial security.

ncdadam

darkhorse wrote: »

According to this guy, my home should be treated as a benefit in kind, just like a company car, that is actually supplied by a company. Only thing is, my home has not been supplied by a company, I had to borrow money to build/buy my home.
Here is how the revenue describe benefit in kind:
Benefits-in-kind, such as private use of a company car, free or subsidised accommodation and preferential loans, received from an employer, by an employee whose total remuneration (including benefits-in-kind) is €1,905 or more in a tax year, are taxable (subject to certain exceptions).

By the way, it is the easiest thing in the world for someone with no money worries, to give advice on what the citizens of a state should be paying for, regardless of how it may affect their future financial security.

Yea, but that was lugha who posted that, he's not well, his mind is a bit addled.

Hijpo

Slurryface wrote: »

No pay no get anything from the state. Simples

Hijpo wrote: »

I agree, so where does that leave long term social welfare scroungers (even when the place was awash with job oppertunities) that dont contribute anywhere near the amount of tax a home owner does yet gets supported by the state/council??

dvpower wrote: »

You do? I thought you were evading this charge?

:rolleyes:
Are you really going to make me explain my position on this again?

dvpower

Hijpo wrote: »

:rolleyes:
Are you really going to make me explain my position on this again?

No. You were very clear.
You think that people who don't pay their taxes to the state shouldn't get state services. You evade your taxes, yet you hypocritically continue to avail of state services.

Carry on.

darkhorse

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I have no recent experience of the education system, I don't know about you. But I got the impression that there are more third level students now than pre 2000 and at national and secondary level more supports like Special Needs Assistants for children. The population of the country increased by one million over the last 20 years and is continuing to increase. It is fair to think that there are more children than ever before including a lot from abroad so that would necessitate an increase in expenditure. But it seems the percentage of overall spending devoted to education has remained much the same.

http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/ireland/public-spending-on-education

Of course the period you mention was under Fianna Fail, PD's and Greens. Not sure what the relevance to HHC is?

Just to explain to you what the institute of statistics do, dx. They collate the stats from each country, but the governments of each country has to send in the info in the first place. How else would the institute know about any countries statistics.

NedKinsella

Government can pass a law taxing anything. That makes the tax legal, assuming it's not unconstitutional. That however does not make it a just tax or morally correct.
This is the issue at the moment when ordinary workers are being overburdened with taxes, receiving minimal and ever decreasing public services for their money while the wealthy are untouched. Criminal negligence by government, financial regulators, bankers and developers go unpunished. Is this the republic our ancestors fought and died for??? I think not. Its high time that the ordinary people of Ireland took this country back from the small but powerful group of carpet baggers that run it as a private club for their own enrichment and that of their backers.

Chips Lovell

Agreed. We should introduce elections and give ordinary people a say.

Valetta

NedKinsella wrote: »

Government can pass a law taxing anything. That makes the tax legal, assuming it's not unconstitutional. That however does not make it a just tax or morally correct.
This is the issue at the moment when ordinary workers are being overburdened with taxes, receiving minimal and ever decreasing public services for their money while the wealthy are untouched. Criminal negligence by government, financial regulators, bankers and developers go unpunished. Is this the republic our ancestors fought and died for??? I think not. Its high time that the ordinary people of Ireland took this country back from the small but powerful group of carpet baggers that run it as a private club for their own enrichment and that of their backers.

What are "ordinary workers"?

The "wealthy" pay tax.

Who are the "ordinary people of Ireland"?

Your post makes no sense.

NedKinsella

Ordinary workers are people in the paye system who dont have accountants to fiddle their taxes.
The wealthy are, among other, those who have made obscene profits from speculation, developement ets as well as many who have earnings way above what would be reasonably required by any family to enjoy a reasonable liferstyle and provide housing, clothing , food, education for their families. One example would be senior bank officials who are still paid huge salaries plus bonuses. It seems it is easier to knock public servants who for the most part are on modest salaries rather than take on the rich and powerful.
The ordinary people of ireland are the paye workers, both public service and private sector who pay the vast majority of tax collected in this country. Also people running small business and farms. Self employed tradesmen etc. people who are not members of the priveleged class who are looked after by their puppets in government.

tayto lover

Slurryface wrote: »

Surely the simple thing for the Government to do is require that anyone looking for anything from the state Medical Card, SW Payment,Planning Permission,Tax Free Allowance,Exam registration,Grants, etc) should have to provide either a payment reciept number or Waiver number for the address at which they reside. No pay no get anything from the state. Simples:)

28 posts. Another re-birth. More born again Fine Gaelers. They must be really fretting at this stage.

Am Chile

dvpower wrote: »

In a thread with more than the average number of dumb posts, this is one of the dumbest.

There is nothing in the legislation that can send you to jail, but if you refuse to pay a fine or comply with a court order then you are in a whole different ballpark and committing a whole range of other offences, for which you most certainly can go to jail.
The idea that the government could prevent the courts from sending someone to jail no matter how far they go in refusing to pay this charge displays a complete lack of understanding about how our system works.

Alan shatter, fergus o dewd, phil hogan are all on the record stating no one will go to jail over the household tax-assuming no one gets sent to jail-when someone refuses to pay fines,legal costs, what do you think they will do if they don,t jail anyone ?

Am Chile

Slurryface wrote: »

Surely the simple thing for the Government to do is require that anyone looking for anything from the state Medical Card, SW Payment,Planning Permission,Tax Free Allowance,Exam registration,Grants, etc) should have to provide either a payment reciept number or Waiver number for the address at which they reside. No pay no get anything from the state. Simples:)

What if someone who,s renting at an address from a private landlord, and the landlord has made a choice not to pay the household tax-do you actually think the renter should be held to ransom over the landlords decision ?

dvpower

Am Chile wrote: »

Alan shatter, fergus o dewd, phil hogan are all on the record stating no one will go to jail over the household tax-assuming no one gets sent to jail-when someone refuses to pay fines,legal costs, what do you think they will do if they don,t jail anyone ?

They won't be jailed for non payment of the HHC - instead they'll be fined (a Class C fine, up to €2500).

If they refuse to pay a fine, that's a separate matter. They may be jailed for that (Fines Act 2010).
Its all in black and white on the relevant legislation.

ncdadam

dvpower wrote: »

They won't be jailed for non payment of the HHC - instead they'll be fined (a Class C fine, up to €2500).

If they refuse to pay a fine, that's a separate matter. They may be jailed for that (Fines Act 2010).
Its all in black and white on the relevant legislation.

The day anyone is sent to jail for anything to do with the HHC there will be anarchy.
The Irish people are a quite placid race, but like an old dog, if you keep poking him with a stick eventually he'll attack you.

dvpower

ncdadam wrote: »

The day anyone is sent to jail for anything to do with the HHC there will be anarchy.
The Irish people are a quite placid race, but like an old dog, if you keep poking him with a stick eventually he'll attack you.

Nonsense.
People go to prison all of the time for non payment of all kinds of fines (non payment of TV license fines springs to mind). There is hardly ever a murmur.

dxhound2005

ncdadam wrote: »

The day anyone is sent to jail for anything to do with the HHC there will be anarchy.
The Irish people are a quite placid race, but like an old dog, if you keep poking him with a stick eventually he'll attack you.

The relations of the old dog up North must be in a deep sleep. We never hear a peep from up there even though they are paying property tax and tens of thousands of them who refuse (maybe they have a principled objection) are brought before the courts every year.

Son Of A Vidic

ncdadam wrote: »

The Irish people are a quite placid race, but like an old dog, if you keep poking him with a stick eventually he'll attack you.

The Irish people are gone well past being poked at this stage, more like getting the shít kicked out of them.

Jellicoe

Izzy Skint wrote: »

Lugha, my public sector comrade, answer me this ......govt. spending almost doubled between 2000 and 2009, where has the money gone?.....what was it spent on ???....

Mosty FF buying the vote of the welfare classes and the unemployable, now they are courted by FG, while they fail to cut-stimulate the economy for those who want to go back to work.

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The relations of the old dog up North must be in a deep sleep. We never hear a peep from up there even though they are paying property tax and tens of thousands of them who refuse (maybe they have a principled objection) are brought before the courts every year.

/Sigh.......


Alright, I'll say it.

They're getting a BARGAIN!

I, and am sure lots of others on this thread would gladly pay into a rates system like they do, provided we get the same services!

Once again I'll let the folks whom might not be aware what rates get you up north, compared to here.

Oh, and Btw, rates are applicable to tenants and landlords in many cases!

what do your rates pay for?

District rate

The district rate is fixed annually by each council and the rate will vary from council to council. Income from the district rate is used to meet the costs of providing a range of services.

We provide a range of council services such as:

bin collections and recycling
leisure centres
parks
events
council venues
street cleaning
economic indicatives
building control.

Find out what other services we provide

Regional rate

The regional rate is set by Central Government.

Income from the regional rate is used to meet the costs of providing services like:

education
health
personal
social
services
housing
roads
sewerage water.

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/what-do-rates-pay-for


I have to hand it to you DX, you're consistent, constantly peddling the same thing over and over and over again!

You're like a slurry tanker, spreading the same old shyte once or twice a week. :pac:

tayto lover

dvpower wrote: »

Nonsense.
People go to prison all of the time for non payment of all kinds of fines (non payment of TV license fines springs to mind). There is hardly ever a murmur.

Because they're out in less than 4 hours with their sentence done and their crime dealt with. It's a great system. Pay 2,500 fine or sit on a bench in the office of Mountjoy for 4 hours. It's a no-brainer.

donalg1

Ghandee wrote: »

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The relations of the old dog up North must be in a deep sleep. We never hear a peep from up there even though they are paying property tax and tens of thousands of them who refuse (maybe they have a principled objection) are brought before the courts every year.

/Sigh.......


Alright, I'll say it.

They're getting a BARGAIN!

I, and am sure lots of others on this thread would gladly pay into a rates system like they do, provided we get the same services!

Once again I'll let the folks whom might not be aware what rates get you up north, compared to here.

Oh, and Btw, rates are applicable to tenants and landlords in many cases!

what do your rates pay for?

Your rates are made up of the district rate and the regional rate.

District rate

The district rate is fixed annually by each council and the rate will vary from council to council. Income from the district rate is used to meet the costs of providing a range of services.

We provide a range of council services such as:

bin collections and recycling leisure centres parks events council venues street cleaning economic indicatives building control.

Find out what other services we provide

Regional rate

The regional rate is set by Central Government.

Income from the regional rate is used to meet the costs of providing services like:

education health personal social services housing roads sewerage water.

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/what-do-rates-pay-for


I have to hand it to you DX, you're consistent, constantly peddling the same thing offer and offer and over again!

You're like a slurry tanker, spreading the same old shyte once or twice a week. :pac:

Do they still use the valuations of 2005 when calculating the rates of property tax tobe paid

tayto lover

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The relations of the old dog up North must be in a deep sleep. We never hear a peep from up there even though they are paying property tax and tens of thousands of them who refuse (maybe they have a principled objection) are brought before the courts every year.

And they still get all the brilliant services up there.

Ghandee

donalg1 wrote: »

Do they still use the valuations of 2005 when calculating the rates of property tax tobe paid

How do you mean?

I'm not sure, I left the north in 2003, I've been in Australia/Kildare ever since.

dvpower

tayto lover wrote: »

Because they're out in less than 4 hours with their sentence done and their crime dealt with. It's a great system. Pay 2,500 fine or sit on a bench in the office of Mountjoy for 4 hours. It's a no-brainer.

Some are, some aren't. But as I've said before, if you think that having a custodial sentence on your record is worth risking for €100 then go right ahead.

Hijpo

dvpower wrote: »

You evade your taxes

Excuse me, I have never evaded any taxes, i give all tax money required from me to the government to squander.
How can i evade taxes when they come straight out of my pay packet ye slanderous little p****.

Anyway, my point to slurryface was that i agree people should get nothing for nothing. Everyone payes tax for, lets be fair, extremely basic service of a very poor quality. The government want to charge home owners (probably the least amount of cost to the state to be truthfull) extra money for the same level of service, the fact that when other countries that pay the property tax get alot more, and if not more, then alot better quality services is a complete joke. Its already been confirmed we will not get an increase in services or quality of basic services for the extra money we will pay.

Ye know the €61 a day that the TD's get for just turning up? does that come out of our taxes aswell?

donalg1

Ghandee wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

Do they still use the valuations of 2005 when calculating the rates of property tax tobe paid

How do you mean?

I'm not sure, I left the north in 2003, I've been in Australia/Kildare ever since.

I had a look at the link you put up and just read on it that they use 2005 values to calculate the property tax. Id imagine this has been changed though awful unfair if not.

Read it here http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/information-and-services/property-and-housing/rates/valuation-of-properties-for-rates/domestic-valuation.html


Don't know how up to date this is. I'm on the phone so just had a quick look.

tayto lover

dvpower wrote: »

Some are, some aren't. But as I've said before, if you think that having a custodial sentence on your record is worth risking for €100 then go right ahead.

Better men than you and I have been priviliged to go to prison to fight what they considered to be unjust and unfair laws.

dvpower

Hijpo wrote: »

How can i evade taxes when they come straight out of my pay packet ye slanderous little p****.

Ouch!

Hijpo wrote: »

Excuse me, I have never evaded any taxes, i give all tax money required from me to the government to squander.

Apart from the HHC.