Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

Ghandee

Big Thanks to El Weirdo for the poll reset.

(maybe this third reset will be representative of the population lol?)

Ghandee

Still haven't seen a source for government official figures yet?

Meanwhile, back in the real world, yet another pre-election promise broke.....

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/politicians-still-giving-jobs-to-family-despite-pledges-to-stop-3236601.html

DOZENS of TDs and senators employ family members as parliamentary and secretarial assistants, newly released records reveal.

The wife of Labour Party chairman Colm Keaveney last night complained of being "singled out", and the latest list of Oireachtas employees show how at least 27 members see nothing wrong with employing wives, siblings and more distant relatives.

South Tipperary Independent TD Mattie McGrath had the most family members working for him in recent months, employing two daughters and a niece. TDs and senators from government parties alone employ at least 15 family members, flouting Fine Gael's pre-election pledge to end cronyism and the Labour Party's advice that hiring family members was "unwise".

Parliamentary assistants enjoy a starting salary of €41,000 while secretarial assistants are paid €23,000.


Galway East TD Mr Keaveney came in for criticism yesterday when it emerged he has employed his wife Deirdre as a parliamentary assistant since the start of September. He said there was "nothing unusual" about his wife working for him -- he said on a temporary basis -- adding: "I would regard her as my closest political confidant." Last night Mrs Keaveney spoke out saying: "I'm surprised Colm and myself have been singled out." And she added: "As I'm sure you are aware about 30pc of Oireachtas members, including government ministers and MEPs, have family members working for them." She claimed to have undergone a "fairly rigorous" application process to get the job and would be working for her husband until "Christmas at the latest".

Mr Keaveney said in a statement that he had always intended to advertise the position "in due course".

Sure you did Colm :cool:

Sick of reading about broken promises and excuses at this stage, I thought their etoile be no more cronyism with the new lads in power, but nope.

FF.2

ilovesleep

Am Chile wrote: »

What happens when some people believe the spin that the household charge is just two euro a week and people should pay it- All they did was pay money for the privilege of signing up for the real tax coming your way soon-only this time there will no need for any calls for a boycott-as people simply won,t be able to afford the money-some people who paid beleiving its only two euro per week will regret paying when the chickens come out to roost.

http://www.herald.ie/news/families-forced-to-tighten-their-commuter-belts-3235971.html

To me those charges are steep but I suppose at the end of the day, it depends on your circumstances. I said it before but there's a huge imbalance of incomes happening. For some people they don't have the money, for others it will push them over the edge, for others it will cause a dent and for others, they won't notice that money when it's gone.

ilovesleep

Ghandee wrote: »

Still haven't seen a source for government official figures yet?

Meanwhile, back in the real world, yet another pre-election promise broke.....

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/politicians-still-giving-jobs-to-family-despite-pledges-to-stop-3236601.html



Sure you did Colm :cool:

Sick of reading about broken promises and excuses at this stage, I thought their etoile be no more cronyism with the new lads in power, but nope.

FF.2

FF 2 is right

ncdadam

Ghandee wrote: »

Still haven't seen a source for government official figures yet?

Meanwhile, back in the real world, yet another pre-election promise broke.....

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/politicians-still-giving-jobs-to-family-despite-pledges-to-stop-3236601.html



Sure you did Colm :cool:

Sick of reading about broken promises and excuses at this stage, I thought their etoile be no more cronyism with the new lads in power, but nope.

FF.2

Like all politicians in this corrupt little country, cronyism and nepotism is the norm.
I wonder how many of the pro taxers will condone this, I know one who will......

nachocheese

ncdadam wrote: »

Like all politicians in this corrupt little country, cronyism and nepotism is the norm.
I wonder how many of the pro taxers will condone this, I know one who will......

They're two very separate issues. A person could well be against one and for the other, or vice versa.

We weren't all born with one track minds.

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

Big Thanks to El Weirdo for the poll reset.

(maybe this third reset will be representative of the population lol?)

The No vote includes people who aren't liable, making this poll even more worthless than boards polls usually are.

Its laughable that you put store in the result of a boards poll, but you reject official figures.

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

The No vote includes people who aren't liable, making this poll even more worthless than boards polls usually are.

Its laughable that you put store in the result of a boards poll, but you reject official figures.

Where are these official figures?

Still waiting on some one to post a link.

Btw, i put faith in the general public, people I meet every day.

I was at a wedding yesterday, met another couple who paid their hhc (brings the number of folk I've met now up to the grand total of five ) incidentally, this couple live in an apartment block, they'll now be paying that on top of their already monstrous yearly service charge! (suckers)

Bishop_Donal

I must say I'm delighted to see the collection of unpaid HHC and penalties / interest handed over to the Revenue.

The poor old sods who thought they might keep the head down for the next twelve years are bunched now!!;)

Ghandee

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

I must say I'm delighted to see the collection of unpaid HHC and penalties / interest handed over to the Revenue.

The poor old sods who thought they might keep the head down for the next twelve years are bunched now!!;)

Me too.

For one, it shows the govt admitted defeat. They failed to introduce and collect the charge.

Secondly, how will revenue know where to send a bill to? What if you refuse to pay them? (govt pledged no one would be jailed for non payment)

Bishop_Donal

Ghandee wrote: »

Where are these official figures?

Still waiting on some one to post a link.
Oozy
Btw, i put faith in the general public, people I meet every day.

I was at a wedding yesterday, met another couple who paid their hhc (brings the number of folk I've met now up to the grand total of five ) incidentally, this couple live in an apartment block, they'll now be paying that on top of their already monstrous yearly service charge! (suckers)

Can I ask you a question?

Where would you get figures that you actually believe?

I genuinely respect your right to not believe the numbers that are bounced around (and in reality, you may or may not be correct in your belief that they are always wrong). But you seem obsessed with asking people to quote figures and then you dismiss them (so I really don't see the point?)

I reckon you can only guesstimate how many have paid based on your own experience (and clearly the majority of people who you interact with didn't pay). On the other hand, I honestly don't have one relation or friend who didn't pay it (and I base my opinions on that). In reality, the overall compliance rate lies somewhere in the middle > 60% probably isn't a bad proxy?

To me the key issues at this stage are:
1.) whether it is right and proper that everyone should contribute some property tax to try to put this country back on a solid footing;
2.) what steps should be taken against those who have defaulted (and I like speculating on how enforcement might be achieved)

Bishop_Donal

Ghandee wrote: »

Me too.

For one, it shows the govt admitted defeat. They failed to introduce and collect the charge.

Secondly, how will revenue know where to send a bill to? What if you refuse to pay them? (govt pledged no one would be jailed for non payment)

You may perceive it as defeat - I don't. I suppose time will tell!!

The Revenue don't jail everyone who defaults! They actually have quite a range of options open to them. I have a general policy of not messing around with them or drawing them on.

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

Where are these official figures?

Still waiting on some one to post a link.

You want someone else to post the official figures so you can reject them out out hand.

Look them up yourself.

ncdadam

It hasn't been handed over to revenue to collect yet.
It may be handed over to them after the budget according to reports.
Maybe a few court cases is what's needed to bring the people out on the streets en masse.
Combine it with more cuts, more taxes and a PS that is isolated from pay cuts, continues to get pay rises and obscene allowances and eventually the people will fight back.

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

You want someone else to post the official figures so you can reject them out out hand.

Look them up yourself.

Are you unwilling or unable to post figures?

Latest 'official' figures I could find stated 924,000 had registered (doesn't say paid)

I think the true figures are in around 50%, the property tax will fail with even more humiliation to Kenny and Co, who've proven they couldn't run a bath, never mind a country.

bgrizzley

councils will collect it, we have databases, we'll send guys door to door. we'll add it to your esb bill. we'll take at source. we'll write you a letter.
and now, the revenue will collect it...

we've heard it all before and nothing happened. how many more failed attempts are we going to get from them before they realise they have lost. they've lost on this tax, they've lost their moral high ground, and most importantly they've lost the people.

Ghandee

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Can I ask you a question?

Where would you get figures that you actually believe?

I genuinely respect your right to not believe the numbers that are bounced around (and in reality, you may or may not be correct in your belief that they are always wrong). But you seem obsessed with asking people to quote figures and then you dismiss them (so I really don't see the point?)

Govt figures are not independent, unbiased figures, why would i believe their figures when they poison news reports by state broadcasters each and every day?I've a right to question 'official' figures when they don't add up, the amount of folk who claim they haven't/won't pay does not stack up to what the govt say, plain and simple.

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

I reckon you can only guesstimate how many have paid based on your own experience (and clearly the majority of people who you interact with didn't pay). On the other hand, I honestly don't have one relation or friend who didn't pay it (and I base my opinions on that). In reality, the overall compliance rate lies somewhere in the middle > 60% probably isn't a bad proxy?

To me the key issues at this stage are:
1.) whether it is right and proper that everyone should contribute some property tax to try to put this country back on a solid footing;

I've no objection to paying tax, why though, will they not introduce a property tax akin to the rates system in the north?
Round the figure up, perhaps even up to a grand if that's what it took, but include an array of services for the money?
Money for nothing in return won't wash with citizens when the countries in the state it's in.

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

2.) what steps should be taken against those who have defaulted (and I like speculating on how enforcement might be achieved)

Same steps that were taken against Reilly, Hegarty, Healey Eames and Hogan?

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

Are you unwilling or unable to post figures?

If you want to see the official figures, go and look them up yourself.

Ghandee wrote: »

Latest 'official' figures I could find stated 924,000 had registered (doesn't say paid)

Then you didn't even bother to look on the front page of the LGMA website which has properties registered at over 1m.

dxhound2005

ncdadam wrote: »

It hasn't been handed over to revenue to collect yet.
It may be handed over to them after the budget according to reports.
Maybe a few court cases is what's needed to bring the people out on the streets en masse.
Combine it with more cuts, more taxes and a PS that is isolated from pay cuts, continues to get pay rises and obscene allowances and eventually the people will fight back.

Some posters like yourself appoint themselves as spokespersons for "the people". I think I will do the same.

The people's sons and daughters are at university. They are spending vast amounts of money on alcohol. If their parents cannot find €100 to pay the HHC their offsfpring should divert some of their drinking money to help out.

tayto lover

I think that anyone wondering why people didn't/can't pay their HHC should read this article. It has got little air-time because the Govt do not want to admit that people are at the end of their tether. When the Property Tax comes in the real pressure will start and there will be an upsurge of revolt in my opinion --

www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0918/1224324117183.html

mikom

dvpower wrote: »

Then you didn't even bother to look on the front page of the LGMA website which has properties registered at over 1m.

You had the ould blinkers on yourself Daddy............

Based on figures from the 2011 census and verified by Prof. Rob Kitchin at the Department of Geography, NUI Maynooth, 1.45m families were due to register 1.8 million houses.

The government claim over 900k houses registered, but in fact over a third of these were registered by landlords etc registering multiple properties.

Only 700k people have registered, with over 750k (52%) families boycotting

dvpower

mikom wrote: »

You had the ould blinkers on yourself Daddy............

... well that's just a little bit weird.

... not to mention that those figures are over 100k out

dvpower

tayto lover wrote: »

I think that anyone wondering why people didn't/can't pay their HHC should read this article. It has got little air-time because the Govt do not want to admit that people are at the end of their tether. When the Property Tax comes in the real pressure will start and there will be an upsurge of revolt in my opinion --

www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0918/1224324117183.html

Well, we can see you you're trying to protect.

Dr Michael Murphy earns €232,000 a year as the head of University College Cork, but he was quoted as saying that people in his position “are as challenged at paying their bills as anyone else"

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Some posters like yourself appoint themselves as spokespersons for "the people". I think I will do the same.

The people's sons and daughters are at university. They are spending vast amounts of money on alcohol. If their parents cannot find €100 to pay the HHC their offsfpring should divert some of their drinking money to help out.

The students are doing their bit to the exchequer by purchasing booze, why have you a problem with that

Desperation from govt and a few posters oh this thread is very evident at this stage, a crumbling defeat lol!

I'm off to give a few euro to the exchequer today myself, via the pub (post wedding party)
Will be watching the all Ireland tomorrow too (in the pub)

At least I'll see a return for my money.

golden lane

it seem that a lot of people will be able to afford this tax.....

the problem is...is those that cannot afford it....

tayto lover

dvpower wrote: »

Well, we can see you you're trying to protect.

Don't get your point.

dxhound2005

tayto lover wrote: »

I think that anyone wondering why people didn't/can't pay their HHC should read this article. It has got little air-time because the Govt do not want to admit that people are at the end of their tether. When the Property Tax comes in the real pressure will start and there will be an upsurge of revolt in my opinion --

www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0918/1224324117183.html

These people must not include those preparing to part with much more than the HHC for the new iPhone 5. Queues expected outside shops and thousands have pre-ordered. I would hazard a guess that some of them already have a phone.

tayto lover

dxhound2005 wrote: »

These people must not include those preparing to part with much more than the HHC for the new iPhone 5. Queues expected outside shops and thousands have pre-ordered. I would hazard a guess that some of them already have a phone.

And those figures don't include holidays, cigarettes or alcohol. Also gas and electricity has gone up since too. Frightening.

ncdadam

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Some posters like yourself appoint themselves as spokespersons for "the people". I think I will do the same.

The people's sons and daughters are at university. They are spending vast amounts of money on alcohol. If their parents cannot find €100 to pay the HHC their offsfpring should divert some of their drinking money to help out.

Were you drinking yourself when you thought that one up?

ncdadam

dvpower wrote: »

... well that's just a little bit weird.

... not to mention that those figures are over 100k out

You are donal's old man, aren't you?