Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

lugha

[Quote=ncdadam;{Sure then all savings in the country should be taxed too, not just the interest.
What's the difference?
Items of jewellery, expensive art works, fur coats etc etc....
They're all assets.[/Quote]
I'm sure you know what I am going to say!:)

A house generates income, actual or notional.

If I gave you the choice of a 200k work of art or a 200k house as a present, which would you take?

Of course if you simply sold it on it wouldn't matter.

But if you decided to keep my generous present then the house you could put to work making money for you, which would be taxed.

If you kept the art though, well all you could do is look at it! You couldn't make money from it. So I don't see the rational for asking you to pay tax?

ncdadam

lugha wrote: »

I'm sure you know what I am going to say!:)

A house generates income, actual or notional.

If I gave you the choice of a 200k work of art or a 200k house as a present, which would you take?

Of course if you simply sold it on it wouldn't matter.

But if you decided to keep my generous present then the house you could put to work making money for you, which would be taxed.

If you kept the art though, well all you could do is look at it! You couldn't make money from it. So I don't see the rational for asking you to pay tax?

Because it could be sold and realise a healthy profit.
I'm not getting into this again but could you show me how a house (family home) bought for €300,000, now worth €100,000 is generating an actual income?
You know the argument is vacuous but you still persist.

Le_Dieux

lugha wrote: »

For me the question is why should a home be exempt?

.

May I jump in here?

Please answer me a simple question: Why should people pay this HHC when they practically get nothing in return? As far as I am aware - now I am certain someone in the 'yes camp' will prove me wrong - in the UK, one gets free GP and refuse collection ( among other things ) in return, here we pay for everything.

I, for one, will be falling over the edge before the end of this year. I honestly can't see a way out of it. For me, this country has gone to hell, and now this cronyism makes it even worse. In this Godforesaken country, it's not what You know, it's WHO You know!!!!

The hyprocasy of TD's - right across the board - stinks to high heavens!!!

tayto lover

lugha wrote: »

I'm sure you know what I am going to say!:)

A house generates income, actual or notional.

If I gave you the choice of a 200k work of art or a 200k house as a present, which would you take?

Of course if you simply sold it on it wouldn't matter.

But if you decided to keep my generous present then the house you could put to work making money for you, which would be taxed.

If you kept the art though, well all you could do is look at it! You couldn't make money from it. So I don't see the rational for asking you to pay tax?

The same as a fishing rod then ha ha
Will they tax fishing rods next.

lugha

ncdadam wrote: »

lugha wrote: »

I'm sure you know what I am going to say!:)

A house generates income, actual or notional.

If I gave you the choice of a 200k work of art or a 200k house as a present, which would you take?

Of course if you simply sold it on it wouldn't matter.

But if you decided to keep my generous present then the house you could put to work making money for you, which would be taxed.

If you kept the art though, well all you could do is look at it! You couldn't make money from it. So I don't see the rational for asking you to pay tax?

Because it could be sold and realise a healthy profit.
I'm not getting into this again but could you show me how a house (family home) bought for €300,000, now worth €100,000 is generating an actual income?
You know the argument is vacuous but you still persist.

What is "it" that could be sold??

I don't see how the value if any asset relates to the amount of income it can generate? The amount you save by not having to pay rent is only tenuously related, if at all, to the fact that your house's value may have collapsed (the latter loss btw is every bit as notional as the rental income is)

lugha

Le_Dieux wrote: »

lugha wrote: »

For me the question is why should a home be exempt?

.

May I jump in here?

Please answer me a simple question: Why should people pay this HHC when they practically get nothing in

Because we have a massive budget deficit which we can address by raising new taxes or cutting spending or both.

If any new tax was returned in full to the people in the form of services then it would make no difference to the deficit.

ncdadam

lugha wrote: »

Because we have a massive budget deficit which we can address by raising new taxes or cutting spending or both.

If any new tax was returned in full to the people in the form of services then it would make no difference to the deficit.

Good, at least you admit that the money raised is not for the LA's.

Le_Dieux

lugha wrote: »

Because we have a massive budget deficit which we can address by raising new taxes or cutting spending or both.

If any new tax was returned in full to the people in the form of services then it would make no difference to the deficit.

How much is the deficit? Also, WHO caused this BD? THEY are the ones who SHOULD be penalised...not the guy in the street. Tipping people over the edge only detracts more people from spending money, thus affecting retail sales, thus affecting VAT returns and also affecting job opportunities.

There is also another aspect for me: The troops only follow their leaders..IE we follow our td's ( given up using caps as they don't deserve the respect ). How about BFP doing the same as leading by example and paying whatever money he owes on his HOLIDAY home in Southern Portugal? I know there are more examples, but oule Phil's name jumps out at me. As for the bould Mick in Wexford? Won't even go down that road.

I can see a very dark Xmas for a lot of people this year:mad:

tayto lover

Le_Dieux wrote: »

How much is the deficit? Also, WHO caused this BD? THEY are the ones who SHOULD be penalised...not the guy in the street. Tipping people over the edge only detracts more people from spending money, thus affecting retail sales, thus affecting VAT returns and also affecting job opportunities.

There is also another aspect for me: The troops only follow their leaders..IE we follow our td's ( given up using caps as they don't deserve the respect ). How about BFP doing the same as leading by example and paying whatever money he owes on his HOLIDAY home in Southern Portugal? I know there are more examples, but oule Phil's name jumps out at me. As for the bould Mick in Wexford? Won't even go down that road.

I can see a very dark Xmas for a lot of people this year:mad:

www.irishcentral.com/news/Suicide-rate-rising-rapidly-in-Ireland-as-recession-grips-138771164.html

Le_Dieux

tayto lover wrote: »

www.irishcentral.com/news/Suicide-rate-rising-rapidly-in-Ireland-as-recession-grips-138771164.html

THREE suicides a DAY?? And while this happens, the fcuking govt go and give their families jobs.

Thanks for the link Tayto Lover, but just highlights what a fcuking sick country we are!

Am Chile

tayto lover wrote: »

www.irishcentral.com/news/Suicide-rate-rising-rapidly-in-Ireland-as-recession-grips-138771164.html

Doesn,t surprise me-with gas bills set to rise, esb bills set to rise-rising new taxes, new taxes will do nothing excempt push people further over the edge.

ncdadam

Look, everyone knows this tax and cut approach isn't going to work.
The ESRI has stated that the domestic economy is still in recession and dragging along the bottom.
As long as that's the case the deficit will remain.

ncdadam

tayto lover wrote: »

www.irishcentral.com/news/Suicide-rate-rising-rapidly-in-Ireland-as-recession-grips-138771164.html

Bertie Ahern must be so proud:mad:

Le_Dieux

Am Chile wrote: »

Doesn,t surprise me-with gas bills set to rise, esb bills set to rise-rising new taxes, new taxes will do nothing excempt push people further over the edge.

I can't 'like' Your comment AC...though I do agree. And while people kill themselves, the fcuking w (b)ankers) ex td's taosigh etcare walking freely enjoying their sojourn.

Are we MAD or what???

Am Chile

The
Portuguese government have made a U-turn on a decision to increase
taxes.

They
have instead agreed to look for alternatives after huge anti-austerity street
protests.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/archives/2012/0922/world/protests-convince-portugal-government-to-reconsider-tax-rises-567885.html



Proof mass street protests can work when ordinary people get pushed so far -sooner or later the Irish people will have to do take to the streets when they get pushed and I reckon that point is rapidly coming.

ilovesleep

Am Chile wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/archives/2012/0922/world/protests-convince-portugal-government-to-reconsider-tax-rises-567885.html



Proof mass street protests can work when ordinary people get pushed so far -sooner or later the Irish people will have to do take to the streets when they get pushed and I reckon that point is rapidly coming.

It won't come quick enough.

Am Chile

Le_Dieux wrote: »

I can't 'like' Your comment AC...though I do agree. And while people kill themselves, the fcuking w (b)ankers) ex td's taosigh etcare walking freely enjoying their sojourn.

Are we MAD or what???

Just a bit quiet so far-if all the rumours are true about the next budget I don,t think people will be able to afford to be quiet anymore.

ilovesleep

ncdadam wrote: »

Bertie Ahern must be so proud:mad:

He's a pr1ck and I hope to god he is tortured and dies slowly. But then all of FF are pr1cks.
Rotten greedy selfish pr1cks.

But so is FG. Following in FFs footsteps. Keeping their own pockets as full as possible with their pay, perks, allowances, expenses. Feathering their own nests.

ncdadam

ilovesleep wrote: »

He's a pr1ck and I hope to god he is tortured and dies slowly. But then all of FF are pr1cks.
Rotten greedy selfish pr1cks.

But so is FG. Following in FFs footsteps. Keeping their own pockets as full as possible with their pay, perks, allowances, expenses. Feathering their own nests.

They're one and the same ok.
It shows how bereft of decent politicians this country is.

Le_Dieux

ilovesleep wrote: »

He's a pr1ck and I hope to god he is tortured and dies slowly. But then all of FF are pr1cks.
Rotten greedy selfish pr1cks.

But so is FG. Following in FFs footsteps. Keeping their own pockets as full as possible with their pay, perks, allowances, expenses. Feathering their own nests.

I totally agree with Your assessment ILS, though I think You are doing a disservice to pr1cks :-)

BUT, what's the alternative? The thought's of voting for SF turns my stomach! And as for Indo's? Impossible task to get them all to agree and stand on the one platform.

ncdadam

Le_Dieux wrote: »

I totally agree with Your assessment ILS, though I think You are doing a disservice to pr1cks :-)

BUT, what's the alternative? The thought's of voting for SF turns my stomach! And as for Indo's? Impossible task to get them all to agree and stand on the one platform.

Sinn Fein have a bloody past ok, as do FF & FG.
Forgetting about that, maybe, just maybe some of their policies could work.
God knows, the policies of FGFF are failing miserably.

That's the 'new' party in Ireland, FGFF.

darkhorse

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Some posters like yourself appoint themselves as spokespersons for "the people". I think I will do the same.

The people's sons and daughters are at university. They are spending vast amounts of money on alcohol. If their parents cannot find €100 to pay the HHC their offsfpring should divert some of their drinking money to help out.

Yeah, I think yer right. Take it off the students and divert it to the bondholders and bankers and let them drink it.

ilovesleep

ncdadam wrote: »

Sinn Fein have a bloody past ok, as do FF & FG.
Forgetting about that, maybe, just maybe some of their policies could work.
God knows, the policies of FGFF are failing miserably.

That's the 'new' party in Ireland, FGFF.

Sounds like a tin whistle tune

ilovesleep

Le_Dieux wrote: »

I totally agree with Your assessment ILS, though I think You are doing a disservice to pr1cks :-)

BUT, what's the alternative? The thought's of voting for SF turns my stomach! And as for Indo's? Impossible task to get them all to agree and stand on the one platform.

We need a revolution here in this country.

ncdadam

ilovesleep wrote: »

Sounds like a tin whistle tune

Notes of the German national anthem maybe.....

dvpower

ilovesleep wrote: »

It won't come quick enough.

I notice that many of the people who are predicting trouble on the streets are the same people who have been saying that all you need to do to protest this tax is not pay it.

The truth is they are great at spending endless hours sitting behind a laptop on their arses complaining, but most are too lazy to do anything beyond that.

Le_Dieux

dvpower wrote: »

I notice that many of the people who are predicting trouble on the streets are the same people who have been saying that all you need to do to protest this tax is not pay it.

The truth is they are great at spending endless hours sitting behind a laptop on their arses complaining, but most are too lazy to do anything beyond that.

Aah DV, welcome back.

Now, perhaps I can refresh Your mind and ask You to answer the questions I asked in my post # 8374.

Le_Dieux

dvpower wrote: »

I notice that many of the people who are predicting trouble on the streets are the same people who have been saying that all you need to do to protest this tax is not pay it.

The truth is they are great at spending endless hours sitting behind a laptop on their arses complaining, but most are too lazy to do anything beyond that.

I commend You on your observations DV.

Another observation I notice is that You have developed the knack of being able to post here while Boards says You are offline. Perhaps there is nothing devious in this, but how is it done?

Am Chile

dvpower wrote: »

I notice that many of the people who are predicting trouble on the streets are the same people who have been saying that all you need to do to protest this tax is not pay it.

The truth is they are great at spending endless hours sitting behind a laptop on their arses complaining, but most are too lazy to do anything beyond that.

Prob your only post Il prob ever agree with it-some on here who haven,t paid have admitted they haven,t being at any protest marches as of yet-if all the rumours about the next budget come to be true-which Im hoping they will-that will force people to act.

ncdadam

dvpower wrote: »

I notice that many of the people who are predicting trouble on the streets are the same people who have been saying that all you need to do to protest this tax is not pay it.

The truth is they are great at spending endless hours sitting behind a laptop on their arses complaining, but most are too lazy to do anything beyond that.

As opposed to spending endless hours sitting in front of a laptop cheerleading new taxes?
Thing is, people will be on the streets not only about this tax but all the other ones and all the cuts to services while at the same time awarding pay rises to our precious little PS leeches.