Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

Le_Dieux

dvpower wrote: »

What was the question?
I'm not in favour of cronyism if thats what you're asking.

Still not showing You are online. How do You do it?

OK, in case You cannot scroll back a few pages, here is a copy of the said message.:

Right, may I clarify a couple of things here?

1) I am under the impression that there was a cut in the pension payouts cum fuel allowances - again if I am wrong, I apologise. I also have looked back on my messages and can't find where I called You demented, please would You be so kind and let me know the message # so I can apologise unequivically.

2) I still take offence DV as You haven't apologised for YOUR mistake in omitting my apology.

3) I also notice You still haven't given an opinion on the cronyism. Or are we just being selective now?

Again if I am wrong, apologies!

dvpower

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Still not showing You are online. How do You do it?

OK, in case You cannot scroll back a few pages, here is a copy of the said message.:

Right, may I clarify a couple of things here?

1) I am under the impression that there was a cut in the pension payouts cum fuel allowances - again if I am wrong, I apologise. I also have looked back on my messages and can't find where I called You demented, please would You be so kind and let me know the message # so I can apologise unequivically.

2) I still take offence DV as You haven't apologised for YOUR mistake in omitting my apology.

3) I also notice You still haven't given an opinion on the cronyism. Or are we just being selective now?

Again if I am wrong, apologies!

To answer your question : No (see #8460)

darkhorse

lugha wrote: »

Because we have a massive budget deficit which we can address by raising new taxes or cutting spending or both.

If any new tax was returned in full to the people in the form of services then it would make no difference to the deficit.

So why don't the government just raise the income tax to the value of what the property tax is going to be. In the long run, its really not going to make any difference to the worker, whether s/he is paying 20 a week on income tax, or 20 a week on property tax, which I keep trying to reiterate here.

tayto lover

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There are a lot of very miserable people on this thread. I like to look on the bright side myself or at least recognise how much worse it could be and how much worse it was in the past.

On average I would say the people of this country are among the top 5% of people in the world in terms of economic wellbeing.
I just made that figure up but since we are only 5 million out of 6 billion it could be pretty accurate looking at the conditions round the world in which other people live.

That is a very smug view of our situation in Ireland.
Look at the bright side of these then -- The first one is just a reminder of the waste that effects the others --

1. www.businesspro.ie/2202/reilly-took-10k-state-jet-home-to-face-debts-storm

2.www.thejournal.ie/sharp-increase-in-suicide-rate-is-linked-to-recession-experts-479033-Jun2012/

3. www.independent.ie/national-news/recession-2012-its-harder-than-ever-to-reduce-poverty-social-justice-groups-admit-3017536.html

4. www.eapn.ie/eapn/training/consistent-poverty-rates

5. newtabhttp//voicesofyouth.wordpress.com/2011/01/11/child-poverty-in-ireland/

darkhorse

dvpower wrote: »

The truth is they are great at spending endless hours sitting behind a laptop on their arses complaining, but most are too lazy to do anything beyond that.

Is it not an evident form of protest that people(quite a high number of people) are willing to go to court for non-payment of an unjust charge/tax on our homes.

dvpower

darkhorse wrote: »

Is it not an evident form of protest that people(quite a high number of people) are willing to go to court for non-payment of an unjust charge/tax on our homes.

Nobody has made that protest yet. I suspect most people who get the third letter will pay up. Some will go to court and then pay up. As soon as people start getting convicted, most of the remaining defaulters will pay up.

tayto lover

dvpower wrote: »

Nobody has made that protest yet. I suspect most people who get the third letter will pay up. Some will go to court and then pay up. As soon as people start getting convicted, most of the remaining defaulters will pay up.

I think you have a surprise in store with that.

darkhorse

ncdadam wrote: »

Hey, darkhorse!
I'm the spokesman for the people, not dx, he gave me my title earlier on.

Well, he must have took it back off you, nc. See post 8360.

Izzy Skint

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There are a lot of very miserable people on this thread. I like to look on the bright side myself or at least recognise how much worse it could be and how much worse it was in the past.

On average I would say the people of this country are among the top 5% of people in the world in terms of economic wellbeing.
I just made that figure up but since we are only 5 million out of 6 billion it could be pretty accurate looking at the conditions round the world in which other people live.

"on average" !!!..... DX, care to elaborate on that ridiculous statement...."on average" how much does every Irish citizen owe to German gamblers ?....don't compare us to others around the world, compare us to what we were 20 years ago....
you have probably heard this statement before but I will post it anyway "for the first time ever since this state was founded, an upcoming generation will be WORSE OFF than the preceeding generation"...think about that when you try to defend the waste this govt. is presiding over and it's gutless approach to the unions and the troika.

....oh, nearly forgot....on average our politicians and public servants are among the top 0.1% in terms of pay and pensions renumeration...

Le_Dieux

dvpower wrote: »

To answer your question : No (see #8460)

OK I am not impressed here DV. PLEASE show me where I called You demented? You made the accusation, so I am entitled to an answer.

I also notice You still cannot bring Yourself around to apologising for not including my apology in the original message.

darkhorse

Ghandee wrote: »

Freudian slip I think.

Enda has probably text him by now asking him to remove said comment.

Part of the silly season.:)

dxhound2005

Izzy Skint wrote: »

"on average" !!!..... DX, care to elaborate on that ridiculous statement...."on average" how much does every Irish citizen owe to German gamblers ?....don't compare us to others around the world, compare us to what we were 20 years ago....
you have probably heard this statement before but I will post it anyway "for the first time ever since this state was founded, an upcoming generation will be WORSE OFF than the preceeding generation"...think about that when you try to defend the waste this govt. is presiding over and it's gutless approach to the unions and the troika.

....oh, nearly forgot....on average our politicians and public servants are among the top 0.1% in terms of pay and pensions renumeration...

Twenty years ago there were one million less people in the country than now. And obviously a lot less people with jobs. Our population is continuing to increase a sign I would suggest of a generally prosperous country. Why were you asking about 20 years ago?

Le_Dieux

dvpower wrote: »

I notice that many of the people who are predicting trouble on the streets are the same people who have been saying that all you need to do to protest this tax is not pay it.

The truth is they are great at spending endless hours sitting behind a laptop on their arses complaining, but most are too lazy to do anything beyond that.

Ther truth is You have some way of being online while at the same time Boards indicating ( on my pc anyhow) that You are offline. You complain that a lot of the 'no brigade' sit on their arses moaning. Takes some time for someone to send nearly 8k messages, and at the same time Boards indicate You are not online.

Now please show me where I called You demented.

ncdadam

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Twenty years ago there were one million less people in the country than now. And obviously a lot less people with jobs. Our population is continuing to increase a sign I would suggest of a generally prosperous country. Why were you asking about 20 years ago?

dx, give me back my title, darkhorse tells me your the spokesman for the people now, WTF?

darkhorse

bgrizzley wrote: »

They'll be taxing the ride next.:rolleyes:

I hope not, or I'll be out a fortune.:):)

darkhorse

smash wrote: »

only for certain species.

No, it applies to humans too.:):)

Izzy Skint

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Twenty years ago there were one million less people in the country than now. And obviously a lot less people with jobs. Our population is continuing to increase a sign I would suggest of a generally prosperous country. Why were you asking about 20 years ago?

what are you on?....I was not asking about 20 years ago, I said COMPARE us now to 20 years ago....do you see the difference?
were our schools better then?.....had we more hospitals 20 years ago?....surely we should have more hospitals now if our population demands it?
Why do you keep refering population increase to justify the massive increase in govt. spending?....how does a population increase justify the massive increase in public sector pay we saw from 2000 to 2008 ?

Izzy Skint

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Twenty years ago there were one million less people in the country than now. And obviously a lot less people with jobs. Our population is continuing to increase a sign I would suggest of a generally prosperous country. Why were you asking about 20 years ago?

so there are a lot more people now with jobs than 20 years ago, and all those extra workers are all paying a lot more tax than now than they were 4 years ago....but yet we still have a €13b deficit ???...how did that come about?....and you lot think tax increases are "part" of the solution !!....get real guys, this is a spending issue, I am just amazed the troika have not pushed for much greater govt. spending cuts.....maybe the troika did, but the govt. offered alternatives....like a property tax ??????????

darkhorse

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There are a lot of very miserable people on this thread. I like to look on the bright side myself or at least recognise how much worse it could be and how much worse it was in the past.

You don't mind me asking you, but when were things worse. I am 56 yrs. old and I can't remember a worse time in this country and I have come through a lot.

dxhound2005

darkhorse wrote: »

You don't mind me asking you, but when were things worse. I am 56 yrs. old and I can't remember a worse time in this country and I have come through a lot.

Different times different problems. Unemployment was higher in the 1980's. I remember very high inflation and mortgage rates at 18%. I remember a time with constant strikes like all postal and telephone services closed down for 4 months in 1979. I remember much higher income tax rates and the previous property tax (domestic rates) if you regard those as bad things.

And I remember waking up every morning to news of people getting shot and blown up, mostly in the North of course but we did not escape the effects here. Just the fact that that horrible past is mostly gone now is a source of happiness to me and like I say try to look on the bright side. And you can expect to live 10 years longer than 50 years ago.

Am Chile

Le_Dieux wrote: »

AC, I must hold my hands up and admit I have never been on a protest march in my life ( I am 56yo ).

This bunch of thieving bast*rds masquerading as a government have changed my mind though, I'll be top of the march after the next budget.

I,ve being on a quite a few protest marches-the Irish ferries protest march in december 2005 over the dispute regarding the wage cuts along with thousands of others-the anti austerity protest march november 2005, I was there when jack o connor and david beggs got booed and a jearing from the crowd- I have being on both protest marches to the fine gael and labour conferences earlier this year-and Il prob be the protest march before the next budget.

dvpower

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Now please show me where I called You demented.

Le_Dieux wrote: »

What's wrong DV? Suffering from dimentia/memory loss?

.

Izzy Skint

I am convinced this property tax is just a scam devised by the govt. so as to lessen the amount of spending cuts they would otherwise have to introduce. All this bullsh!t quotes like "we need a sustainable income source" and "we have to introduce a property tax,it is a troika condition" or the best one of all "we are one of the only countries in the world without a property tax" are all...well.... bullsh!t...
The troika are not fools, they know that a property tax will have a negative effect on the economy, they know that revenue raising measures stunt growth in the economy, the troika would much prefer spending cuts over revenue raising as it would lessen borrowing needs, interest costs and would bring down interest rates on Irish govt. bonds very quickly.... but our overpaid gutless politicians have bargained a property tax out of the troika....there is always give and take during negotiations, this property tax is all our own govt's work, not the troika's.

Look at the state this country is in....we have "on average" a far too generous pay and pension system for public sector workers which could but unfortunately will never change, we have a far too generous social welfare system which could but unfortunately will never change, we have sh!te public services which could but unfortunately will never change, we have a massively wasteful and inefficient health system which could but unfortunately will never change, we have a very high cost of living which could but unfortunately will never change, we have one of the highest rates of personal debts in Europe which unfortunately we just won't be able to change, we have taken on other peoples massive gambling debts which could but unfortunately will never change etc etc........ supporting all this is the hard working individual, trying to run cars, run a business, pay domestic bills, keep a roof over families head etc... and these people are now being threatened bullied asked to dig ever deeper to keep the ship afloat for all our benefit :mad::mad:....they are being told we must "all contribute" ha!....oh how I would love to be in charge of this sh!te country for just one day....what I wouldn't do !!:)

Am Chile

dvpower wrote: »

Nobody has made that protest yet. I suspect most people who get the third letter will pay up. Some will go to court and then pay up. As soon as people start getting convicted, most of the remaining defaulters will pay up.

It remains to be seen-during the anti water charges campaign when it came to the court stage a lot of cases were thrown out of court because the councils couldn,t prove people were owners and occupiers under the houses listed for not paying water charges-some other cases where there was Judgements made against some people even after that-they still wouldn,t pay-if we were still in the celtic tiger years if this property tax was brought in there prob won,t be as many people pssied off over it-but after the last few Austerity budgets and more to come things will be different-a signifigant amount of people are thinking ahead, what new tax will they levy next, what current taxes will they raise, how much might my dole/welfare, wages/salary be cut by.

darkhorse

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Different times different problems. Unemployment was higher in the 1980's. I remember very high inflation and mortgage rates at 18%. I remember a time with constant strikes like all postal and telephone services closed down for 4 months in 1979. I remember much higher income tax rates and the previous property tax (domestic rates) if you regard those as bad things.

And I remember waking up every morning to news of people getting shot and blown up, mostly in the North of course but we did not escape the effects here. Just the fact that that horrible past is mostly gone now is a source of happiness to me and like I say try to look on the bright side. And you can expect to live 10 years longer than 50 years ago.

Agreed, we went through all that and it was a lot of hardship. You have to admit, though, when we did come through the other end, we still had our soverignty, we were reasonably sure that we would retire in comfort some day, cant say that now, up to three suicides a day now, it was very rare back then, the incidents of old people beaten and robbed, very rare back then. I could go on and on, but whats the point, you know where I'm coming from. But one of the most shameful facts about this particular time in all our history, is that there are kids not born yet, that will be paying for the greed and corruptness of a small minority, who, incidently, are living the life of reilly(no pun intended, minister). No, I definitly believe this is a worse time.

Am Chile

I also see in most news reports only a small per % have registered their septic tanks and paid the

€5 registration fee which expires on friday 28th september, after that date its a

€50 registration fee-it remains to be seen in the next few days how much of an uptake theres gonna be in the

€5 registration fee-if theres not a big uptake-they re gonna have trouble with this charge also- if most people won,t even pay a

€5 registration fee, they re not gonna pay a

€50 registration fee either-most people in rural Ireland are quite well aware if septic tank needs upgrading or fixing its gonna cost up to

€5,000 or over, phil hogan has done nothing whatsoever to assure people there might some grants or financial assistance available to people-it looks like we re gonna a signifigant boycott of the septic tank

registration fee also.

Izzy Skint

question for all you pro tax govt. supporters, the govt.'s "plan" to get us out of this mess is totally reliant on GROWTH....where is the growth going to come from ?

the domestic economy is not growing, it is in tatters, and it is only going to get worse if the govt. continues with its current revenue raising plans. The govt. are factoring in growth levels far above anything we can achieve to help pay pay debts and interest on our borrowings, what is their plan WHEN this growth does not materialise ?

We are heavily reliant on foreign investment in this country, that is a very precarious position to be in, the world economy is in a very fragile state at the moment, international markets are as nervous as a turkey at Christmas, the US treasury are printing money at an ever increasing rate, the euro is on death row hoping for a reprieve......we need to be very cautious, there are still ticking time bombs out there that could go off at a time when we are already on our knees.... and if they do?....well, let's just say in our current position, it won't be nice!

so guys....answer please....where is the growth going to come from ?

Le_Dieux

dvpower wrote: »

.

Aah, so asking a question is also making a statement? HUGE difference in my book dv. And while on the 'apology' mode, You still haven't explained why you omitted my apology in case I was wrong. Being very selective, are we( note - asking, not making a statemment)?

Now, apologise please!

Le_Dieux

dvpower wrote: »

Nobody has made that protest yet. I suspect most people who get the third letter will pay up. Some will go to court and then pay up. As soon as people start getting convicted, most of the remaining defaulters will pay up.

Hate to burst your bubble dv, but I am still waiting my first and second letter, so bit of a way to go to the third - sorry.

tayto lover

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Hate to burst your bubble dv, but I am still waiting my first and second letter, so bit of a way to go to the third - sorry.

They can send as many as they like to me, i'm still not paying a tax to live in my own home.