Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

lugha

Ghandee wrote: »

lugha wrote: »

But we are not considering a council tax, we are lookong at a property tax. If you want to argue that it should be the former then fine. But I suspect you would still have a load that wouldn't pay that either.

And for many, a car is every bit as optional, or not, as a house. You don't have to own either in theory. The reality is rather different.

Which contradicts your earlier suggestion that a family didn't have the option to take a fl car of the road when you likened car tax and house tax earlier in the year?

Not at all. I am saying the very same thing. People could sell their houses to avoid property tax and the could do without their cars, in theory.

In practice, and for the vast majority, these are not options.

lugha

ncdadam wrote: »

It was good to see one pro tax poster being honest earlier.
Lugha, take a bow.
At least he admits that the property tax has nothing to do with funding LA's and is purely a revenue raising exercise to help reduce the deficit.
None of this 'poor disabled people/poor old people not getting grants' bu11****e, he called it as it is.

I don't feel the need to spell out the blindingly obvious all the time. I assume most can fill in the easy bits themselves.
But I keep forgetting I am dealing with the "won't pay" crowd, who seem to find reality a bit of a challenge!

So let me spell it out. Any shortfall in the HHC monies collected WILL lead to a reduction in public services as this is what that money is being used for.

If this measure was taken in ordinary times then the taxpayer could expect that the monies previously collected to fund these services should no longer be collected.

But we are not in ordinary times. We have a massive deficit and part of the way out of that is to raise new taxes, for which the people get nothing in return.

Or if you want to view it a different way, the people are getting something in return but they are not currently paying for it.

Le_Dieux

lugha wrote: »

I don't feel the need to spell out the blindingly obvious all the time. I assume most can fill in the easy bits themselves.
But I keep forgetting I am dealing with the "won't pay" crowd, who seem to find reality a bit of a challenge!

So let me spell it out. Any shortfall in the HHC monies collected WILL lead to a reduction in public services as this is what that money is being used for.

If this measure was taken in ordinary times then the taxpayer could expect that the monies previously collected to fund these services should no longer be collected.

But we are not in ordinary times. We have a massive deficit and part of the way out of that is to raise new taxes, for which the people get nothing in return.

Or if you want to view it a different way, the people are getting something in return but they are not currently paying for it.

You raise a fair point Lugha here - I don't have much of a quibble with this post.

HOWEVER, I do expect my 'bosses' to lead by example. This gang are no better than the last bunch of ( fill in whatever expletive You so desire;) ).

But sadly for me, the entire country is SICK...Brutally so. I found this this morning: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/im-alright-jack-union-chiefs-live-the-high-life-3237072.html It would appear every single cnut in a position of power in this 'country' is only looking after #1. I was in construction until 2009. Was a member of a Union. Shopsteward ( SS ) arrived out to meet us to tell us our jobs were defunct - the SS was driving a BRAND NEW Merc. The hypocracy of it all!!!!!!:mad::mad::mad:

What is being done about the eejits who got us into this mess? NOTHING as far as I can see. That clown from D3 is/was getting paid for hiding in a cupboard. Drumm is living it up in the USA, Fitz? Fingers? The list goes on and on and on...........................

I always regarded myself as a pacifist, always hated violence & have never participated in ANY protest march in my entire life. However, I stated yesterday that I would be at a protest march if and when one is organised after Noonan's next foray into our dwindling shrinking pockets - that's NOT to say I will participate in any acts of violence -I WON'T!

I accept this country is fcuked, and needs help under the extremist of conditions. HOWEVER, until such time as I see the ba*tards sitting in DE leading by example...I'm sorry, my resistance to this 'charge' is paramount to me.

ncdadam

lugha wrote: »

I don't feel the need to spell out the blindingly obvious all the time. I assume most can fill in the easy bits themselves.
But I keep forgetting I am dealing with the "won't pay" crowd, who seem to find reality a bit of a challenge!

So let me spell it out. Any shortfall in the HHC monies collected WILL lead to a reduction in public services as this is what that money is being used for.

If this measure was taken in ordinary times then the taxpayer could expect that the monies previously collected to fund these services should no longer be collected.

But we are not in ordinary times. We have a massive deficit and part of the way out of that is to raise new taxes, for which the people get nothing in return.

Or if you want to view it a different way, the people are getting something in return but they are not currently paying for it.

Bit of backtracking from your post yesterday. Post 8407.

lugha

darkhorse wrote: »

bgrizzley wrote: »

They'll be taxing the ride next.:rolleyes:

I hope not, or I'll be out a fortune.:):)

A previous administration did consider this measure but opposition to it proved too strong.

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2055967999

Le_Dieux

Digging around trying to find out exactly how deep in the red we as a country are, I come across this: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/wife-of-labours-keaveney-on-state-payroll-since-july-2011-3237097.html

Surely the pro-brigade can see the bullsh1t going on here?

And they want US to cough up?????

ilovesleep

darkhorse wrote: »

You don't mind me asking you, but when were things worse. I am 56 yrs. old and I can't remember a worse time in this country and I have come through a lot.

Wow! 56 years old.

My mother is nearing 60 and I'm losing faith in her and her generation. I see every single one of them being bitter and greedy, and careless and ignorant towards politics.

So it's refreshing to read your posts here.

dvpower

ilovesleep wrote: »

Wow! 56 years old.

My mother is nearing 60 and I'm losing faith in her and her generation. I see every single one of them being bitter and greedy, and careless and ignorant towards politics.

Wow!
Way to denigrate a whole generation of people. Shocking stuff altogether - I can see where the bitterness and ignorance lies.

ilovesleep

dvpower wrote: »

Wow!
Way to denigrate a whole generation of people. Shocking stuff altogether - I can see where the bitterness and ignorance lies.

Of the people that I know, that is of similar age, that is.

bgrizzley

dvpower wrote: »

Wow!
Way to denigrate a whole generation of people. Shocking stuff altogether - I can see where the bitterness and ignorance lies.

what do you think of the 600k people who refuse to pay this tax DV?

dvpower

bgrizzley wrote: »

what do you think of the 600k people who refuse to pay this tax DV?

I've only met a handful of them, so I wouldn't make a blanket assessment.

What do you think of the c.1m people who did pay?

bgrizzley

dvpower wrote: »

I've only met a handful of them, so I wouldn't make a blanket assessment.

What do you think of the c.1m people who did pay?

well, i'd dispute that 1m payed (people, (maybe there is that many properties paid up))

Of those that did pay, i think that many think they are doing the correct thing for the country, many are scared of prosecution, im sure some are so innured to new taxes that its just another bill to them.
i definitely dont harbour any grudges towards them, i guess everyone is doing what they think is right...

Le_Dieux

Good morning Dv

Now please I ask You respond to post # 8489. I am owed an apology/explanation from You.

Also, please let us into a secret. You made reference yesterday to people sitting on their butts in the no brigade ( please forgive me, I can't remember the exact words). I am online here, the light under my name is green but I have NEVER seen a green light indicating You are online. What's the trick ( this is the 3rd time I am referring to this, but up to now, you have made no passing comment)?

Le_Dieux

dvpower wrote: »

Wow!
Way to denigrate a whole generation of people. Shocking stuff altogether - I can see where the bitterness and ignorance lies.

I have to agree with DV here. That is a SHOCKING post by ILS...I am also 56yo, and take serious umbrage at the connotations inferred in your post.

TRULY SHOCKING!!!

dvpower

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Good morning Dv

Now please I ask You respond to post # 8489. I am owed an apology/explanation from You

There'll be no apology.

Now, can we get back on topic; your behavior is becoming stalkerish.

Le_Dieux

dvpower wrote: »

There'll be no apology.

Now, can we get back on topic; your behavior is becoming stalkerish.

Stalkerish????

You made the accusation, not me. Now I would request an apology. You also copied and pasted a sentence of mine, nothing wrong with that, but You didn't copy the full sentence, just what suited Your post.

Stalkerish me???

Le_Dieux

Mods

Where do I stand here? Am I in the wrong? If I am I accept and apologise.

But, surely there is something wrong when another poster does what dv did? And then refuses to apologise?

Le_Dieux

I would also contend that someone who, while is sending messages but at the same time not displaying an 'online' icon, could be stalking.

But then what do I know. No pc fundi here:rolleyes:

Am Chile

dvpower wrote: »

I've only met a handful of them, so I wouldn't make a blanket assessment.

What do you think of the c.1m people who did pay?

For a start over a third who paid are landlords with multiple properties, most of us seen the various stories in the media about various landlords with up 400 properties and over paying the tax on all properties, which is very easy when all they have to do is Increase the rent to cover the tax-some old age pensioners I know only paid because they believed the rumours in the media if they didn,t pay it would be taken at source, sometime when a rumour gets repeated often enough some people beleive it to be true-some others who paid haven,t really thought ahead in the long term how much it could be in time to come and paid reluctantly-some areas and estates in my town where there were high % of household tax payments for the moment- see pictures of some houses in estates Im refering to-Id put a value of

€250.000 or over on houses in these areas where people will penalised the most next year-I wonder then how much of a % in payments we re gonna see such areas .

Am Chile

It seems there is still dirty tricks going on by some councils-just seen this on a thread on askaboutmoney-doesn,t surprise me one bit.

So my brother was sitting at home the other day
and a knock came to the door. This woman introduced herself and said that she
was updating the Roscommon Electoral Register and proceeded to ask him to
confirm his name, spouse’s name and their full address which she took down on
her clip board. She then asked him to sign to confirm that the information was
correct. With that she pulled out a letter from under the clipboard and handed
it to him, he asked what it was and she said that it was information on the
electoral register that he needs to know.

With that he went back inside,
thought nothing of it and left the letter on the table without opening it. His
wife came in that evening and opened the letter and to their surprise they
found that the letter was not information on the electoral register but was
actually a demand from Roscommon County Council for the Household Charge.


This is obviously
misrepresentation by RCC imo but my question is…is RCC breaking any laws by
doing this.

Personally
I thought it was a little underhanded but I must say I did have a good laugh at
my brother’s expense as he is absolutely fuming as he boycotting on the basis
that he paid stamp duty and a development levy on his home.

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=172745

bgrizzley

Am Chile wrote: »

It seems there is still dirty tricks going on by some councils-just seen this on a thread on askaboutmoney-doesn,t surprise me one bit.



http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=172745

very foolish man to answer any question on his doorstep to anyone, let alone sign anything.
my door policy is "No thanks" and for the persisent ones "whatever you are selling fcuk off before i get the dog".

tayto lover

dvpower wrote: »

I've only met a handful of them, so I wouldn't make a blanket assessment.

What do you think of the c.1m people who did pay?

Fools and gbo****es all of them. I'm 58 and won't pay one red cent. I will march too and so will my friends, some of whom are older than me. We won't pay a tax on our own homes no matter what the consequences. It's time to stand up and fight this unjust tax. I would rather burn my home than pay for it a second time.

dxhound2005

tayto lover wrote: »

Fools and gbo****es all of them. I'm 58 and won't pay one red cent. I will march too and so will my friends, some of whom are older than me. We won't pay a tax on our own homes no matter what the consequences. It's time to stand up and fight this unjust tax. I would rather burn my home than pay for it a second time.

Have you been out drinking?

darkhorse

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Have you been out drinking?

If he has, I want a pint of the same.

Ghandee

Good to see Mr Howlin doing so well in his new job.

What with his rousing success in slashing public service perks, his earlier vow to 'move with haste' regarding a banking inquiry, has been very far from the actual reality.

It would seem that our trusted, highly paid civil servants are doing everything in their power to prevent an inquiry (I wonder why ) taking place.

Further proof that a turkey doesn't vote for Christmas.

This countries rotten to the core, someone has a vested interest to ensure these inquiries don't take place.

I wonder why?

Public Expenditure Minister Brendan Howlin has been accused of "abandoning" his promise to introduce a banking inquiry and civil servants are still doing their best to prevent a full inquiry, according to the chairman of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) John McGuinness.

Despite being in power for 18 months, an explicit mention of the holding of a banking inquiry in the Programme for Government, and receiving a comprehensive road map into how a banking inquiry should take place from the PAC in July, Mr Howlin has not brought the matter to Government yet.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/howlin-has-abandoned-bank-probe-promise-3237096.html

tayto lover

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Have you been out drinking?

Yes. I'm only home from Croke Park but that has nothing to do with it. I own my home -- not the Government. Not paying to live in something I provided myself.

By the way I was cheering for Donegal. Also saw the long face on Enda afterwards too.

Ghandee

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes. I'm only home from Croke Park but that has nothing to do with it. I own my home -- not the Government. Not paying to live in something I provided myself.

By the way I was cheering for Donegal. Also saw the long face on Enda afterwards too.

Lucky man, would have loved to have been there today.

Jim McGuinness and I attended uni together back in the day (though he's a few years on me) I actually lived next f door to him in Belfast for a year in the mid-90's....

A.Gentleman and no doubt about it!

Wouldn't mind being in Ballyshannon, Bundoran or Letterkenny tonight, the craic would he mighty!

darkhorse

lugha wrote: »

They don't have to own the roof over their head. Whether the own their home or not makes close to no difference to how they live their lives.

But, yet, they have to own the roof over their head in order to pay the HHC. There is another thing that been niggling away at me and it is the fact that tenants in rental accom. and tenants in LAs are exempt. Now, some posters on this thread agree that LA tenants should be exempt. Right, it is going to be a property tax. Well, is the house that the tenants are living in not a property.
Think about it. Goodnight.

lugha

darkhorse wrote: »

But, yet, they have to own the roof over their head in order to pay the HHC.

That's the very point I was making????

darkhorse wrote: »

Right, it is going to be a property tax. Well, is the house that the tenants are living in not a property.

Property tax is a shortening of property owning tax just as motor tax is short for motor usage tax just as VAT is a value added on purchase tax.

Is it necessary to explitly mention owning/using/purchasing every time we discuss these taxes?

dvpower

tayto lover wrote: »

Fools and gbo****es all of them.

Another lazy generalization.

I would rather burn my home than pay for it a second time.

Fools and gob****es indeed.