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Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

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    #8642
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    darkhorse wrote: »
    As I have pointed out in a post a few days ago, it is a form of protest not paying. Would you disagree with this statement.
    To a certain extent yes, in the same way that I would disagree that spoiling a vote is a form of protest.

    While yes to the individual they feel like they have protested, to the person or institution who is being protested against, they do not see any protest, only a random scattering of unaffiliated tax evaders. As far as the government are concerned, there is no functional difference between someone not paying the HHC and a company undeclaring on its VAT. In both cases, it's just someone trying to pull a stroke, who can be chased down individually and made pay.

    In order for a protest to be validated, and therefore effective, it needs to be coherent. From the government's point of view, there is no large anti-HHC lobby, just a few small fringe groups with very little support. Not paying the charge doesn't say, "I won't pay, I believe this charge is unjust and until you change things, I won't pay". All it says is, "I have not yet paid".
    Just as a matter of interest, would you point out on the HHC site where it says you can register without paying, if you are liable.
    Certainly back when they launched the site, it was possible to register, but you did not have to pay until the charge became due. In any case, you can go through the registration process and just not enter payment details.


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    #8643
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Ah well now I am sure you are receiving something, even the roads you drive on are something, so I guess you should gladly pay.

    What. They've abandoned road tax now? Or do they just want people to pay a second time for the roads as well.


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    #8644
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,823 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    If people want to hide thats fine, i myself have the poster printed from the cawht site and put it on the shelf in the car.


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    #8645
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Ah well now I am sure you are receiving something, even the roads you drive on are something, so I guess you should gladly pay.

    For which i pay about a grand a year, with motor tax and tolls.


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    #8646
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    darkhorse wrote: »
    Just as a matter of interest, would you point out on the HHC site where it says you can register without paying, if you are liable.

    You just fill in the form, but don't enclose a cheque. :confused:
    Use your head man. :eek:


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    #8647
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    dvpower wrote: »
    You just fill in the form, but don't enclose a cheque. :confused:
    Use your head man. :eek:

    Less effort to not do that at all though?


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    #8648
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    darkhorse wrote: »
    What. They've abandoned road tax now? Or do they just want people to pay a second time for the roads as well.

    Seriously? You dont think your Road Tax pays solely for the roads do you? Or by road tax are you talking about something other than Motor Tax, I dont think it is known as Road Tax as this would confuse some poor souls into thinking that they pay it for the upkeep of the roads only.


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    #8649
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Less effort to not do that at all though?
    Yeah, less effort to sit on your couch whinging to the internet than to make a coherent protest.

    What a dynamic, proactive campaign this really is. Unstoppable.:pac:


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    #8650
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Ghandee wrote: »
    For which i pay about a grand a year, with motor tax and tolls.

    So you do get a service then, so I assume you will be paying the property tax when you are liable for it. Tolls arent paid to the LA's btw.


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    #8651
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    donalg1 wrote: »
    So you do get a service then, so I assume you will be paying the property tax when you are liable for it. Tolls arent paid to the LA's btw.

    Ditto with the hhc and property tax either.


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    #8652
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Ditto with the hhc and property tax either.

    You claim you will gladly pay when you receive services, I pointed out that you do receive services already, so again are you going to pay? Or are you going to change your tune now?


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    #8653
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    dvpower wrote: »
    Yeah, less effort to sit on your couch whinging to the internet than to make a coherent protest.
    :


    I've less posts than you have on this thread and on the site :confused:


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    #8654
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Ghandee wrote: »
    I've less posts than you have on this thread and on the site :confused:
    Yeah, but he's not claiming to be protesting anything. :)


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    #8655
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    donalg1 wrote: »
    You claim you will gladly pay when you receive services, I pointed out that you do receive services already, so again are you going to pay? Or are you going to change your tune now?

    Service you pointed out was roads.
    I replied by saying i pay prob more than a grand a year between tolls and motor tax?

    So that's a service I already pay for.

    How is this confusing to you?


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    #8656
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Service you pointed out was roads.
    I replied by saying i pay prob more than a grand a year between tolls and motor tax?

    So that's a service I already pay for.

    How is this confusing to you?

    Its confusing because, the tolls you pay dont go to the LA's so you dont pay for the upkeep of the roads in the country when you pay tolls. And the motor tax collected doesnt come close to covering the costs of maintaining the roads, and the motor tax collected does not go solely to the maintenance of roads.

    So when I say you are using a service when using the roads you have not paid for them, you may have paid something towards them but not enough so you need to pay more before you can claim to pay for the roads. How is this confusing you?

    So you do receive a service, so are you going to pay the property tax? again I have to ask you this as you claimed you would when you receive a service.


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    #8657
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Its confusing because, the tolls you pay dont go to the LA's so you dont pay for the upkeep of the roads in the country when you pay tolls. And the motor tax collected doesnt come close to covering the costs of maintaining the roads, and the motor tax collected does not go solely to the maintenance of roads.

    So when I say you are using a service when using the roads you have not paid for them, you may have paid something towards them but not enough so you need to pay more before you can claim to pay for the roads. How is this confusing you?

    So you do receive a service, so are you going to pay the property tax? again I have to ask you this as you claimed you would when you receive a service.


    this thread is becoming an episode of Yes Minister...


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    #8658
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    We have all seen where the "Household Charge" is going. It goes towards the paying of allowances within the public sector. Those trips abroad by the county manager and his colleagues have to be paid from somewhere.

    I wonder when they do eventually bring in the "Property Tax" will we get an annual financial report from our local authority on what exactly they have spent our money on.


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    #8659
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    seamus wrote: »
    To a certain extent yes, in the same way that I would disagree that spoiling a vote is a form of protest.


    A yes or no will do.


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    #8660
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    darkhorse wrote: »
    A yes or no will do.
    Well then no. Simply not paying a tax/charge and taking no other action, is not a form of protest. It doesn't tell anyone that you're protesting, it doesn't provide any information as to your agenda, and doesn't propose any alternatives to the thing that you're protesting.


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    #8661
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    seamus wrote: »
    As far as the government are concerned, there is no functional difference between someone not paying the HHC and a company undeclaring on its VAT.


    Except if you are a T.D.?


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    #8662
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Irrelevant? Unless you think Mick Wallace was protesting something?


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    #8663
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    dvpower wrote: »
    No. Turkeys may try to run away, but in the end they get slaughtered.

    They do get slaughtered, but that is not to say they acually vote for it.


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    #8664
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Seriously? You dont think your Road Tax pays solely for the roads do you? Or by road tax are you talking about something other than Motor Tax, I dont think it is known as Road Tax as this would confuse some poor souls into thinking that they pay it for the upkeep of the roads only.






    Irish Road Tax Rates


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    #8665
    ncdadam
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 598 ✭✭✭ncdadam


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Sure you are grand then arent you, no need for you to register at all or even worry about the HHC. I was referring to the others that are liable and think that by not registering they wont have to pay this charge, you know those delusional few.

    The delusional 600,000 odd you mean.
    'few' LOL!


  • Options
    #8666
    ncdadam
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 598 ✭✭✭ncdadam


    Ghandee wrote: »
    The term 'Turkeys don't vote for Christmas' applies to homeowners as much as politicians.

    Why volunteer your details in order to be screwed at a later date?

    No lads, wilfully giving up your details makes it too easy.:cool:

    Hey Ghandee, See the father and son tag team are on a lot today.;)


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    #8667
    ncdadam
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 598 ✭✭✭ncdadam


    dvpower wrote: »
    Yeah, less effort to sit on your couch whinging to the internet than to make a coherent protest.

    What a dynamic, proactive campaign this really is. Unstoppable.:pac:

    It's as good as your campaign. The only one you converted was your new son.


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    #8668
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    ncdadam wrote: »
    The delusional 600,000 odd you mean.
    'few' LOL!
    Most of them know that they'll pay (with penalties) eventually.
    That's why they continue to register and pay day in and day out.


  • Options
    #8669
    ncdadam
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 598 ✭✭✭ncdadam


    seamus wrote: »
    Yeah, but he's not claiming to be protesting anything. :)

    He's protesting about people not paying.
    The best he can come up with is a million questions and then to call people tax defaulters.
    You should read back through his posts.
    Quite one dimensional.


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    #8670
    ncdadam
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 598 ✭✭✭ncdadam


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    this thread is becoming an episode of Yes Minister...

    Yes donal!


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    #8671
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    ncdadam wrote: »
    It's as good as your campaign.
    ncdadam wrote: »
    He's protesting about people not paying.

    I'm not campaigning for anything or protesting anything.
    If I was trying to effect change, I wouldn't be doing it here on boards - that would be a foolish waste of my time.


This discussion has been closed.
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