Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

lugha

ncdadam wrote: »

Everyone knows that this money will not go to the LA's.
Even lugha, a longtime supporter of the HHC admitted this.

No I didn’t. But your confusion is understandable. There has been for some time, a sort of false dichotomy being peddled as to whether the HHC money will go to local fund services or whether the reason the HHC was introduced was because of our budget deficit.

The reality if course is that it is not either / or, it is both. There is little doubt that after 35 years without, a property tax would not suddenly have appeared on the agenda were it not for the urgings of outsiders who have a more sensible attitude to taxation.

And if you doubt that the local authorities are being hit by people not paying the HHC then why do you have the likes of Clare co co contemplating drastic measures to try and compel people to pay?

dvpower

tayto lover wrote: »

No I always vote and on one occasion I even went out in pouring rain to spoil my vote because of lack of choice or agreement with policies but I will always use it.

I bet that really showed the bastards!!

lugha

tayto lover wrote: »

Stop tripping yourself up. F.G. will be toast at the next election as were F.F. at the last. The sickening thing is that there is no third choice. We have very poor political parties in Ireland unfortunately. Tweedledum or Tweedledee, all only self-serving individuals.

Well if there's no third choice then Tweedledum or Tweedledee can't both be toast?

Unfortunately (for you), they can't both lose! :pac:

tayto lover

lugha wrote: »

Well if there's no third choice then Tweedledum or Tweedledee can't both be toast?

Unfortunately (for you), they can't both lose! :pac:

Whether you like it or not it's also sad for you too.
I honestly hope I see the day when honesty and integrity will return to politics but I seriously doubt I will. Everyday there seems to be more evidence of corruption, cronyism and me fein-ism regardless of which party is in power. It is extremely sad that after all the struggles for Independence during the last 800+ years we have surrendered sovereignty not through the might and tyranny of the invader but through the tyranny and corruption of our own. Very sad indeed.

darkhorse

seamus wrote: »

Irrelevant? Unless you think Mick Wallace was protesting something?

No, just undeclaring tax, as you put it.

ncdadam

e

lugha wrote: »

No I didn’t. But your confusion is understandable. There has been for some time, a sort of false dichotomy being peddled as to whether the HHC money will go to local fund services or whether the reason the HHC was introduced was because of our budget deficit.

The reality if course is that it is not either / or, it is both. There is little doubt that after 35 years without, a property tax would not suddenly have appeared on the agenda were it not for the urgings of outsiders who have a more sensible attitude to taxation.

And if you doubt that the local authorities are being hit by people not paying the HHC then why do you have the likes of Clare co co contemplating drastic measures to try and compel people to pay?

Your post here would suggest that new taxes and cuts are all about reducing the deficit, not funding LA's.

"Because we have a massive budget deficit which we can address by raising new taxes or cutting spending or both.

If any new tax was returned in full to the people in the form of services then it would make no difference to the deficit."

Now, everyone, even I know that the deficit has to be addressed but a bit of honesty wouldn't go amiss.
The LA's aren't being cut because of people not paying the HHC, they were being cut a long time before we even had a HHC.
They are and have been cut for years to try and reduce our deficit.

Maybe a few pro taxers on here should focus their anger at the PS, that group of people and their unions that are holding the country to ransom and at the same time getting pay rises and €1.5 billion in allowances on top of their salary, a salary that on average is one third more than the same salary in the private sector.

lugha

tayto lover wrote: »

Whether you like it or not it's also sad for you too.
I honestly hope I see the day when honesty and integrity will return to politics but I seriously doubt I will. Everyday there seems to be more evidence of corruption, cronyism and me fein-ism regardless of which party is in power.

It would be sad for me if I was deluded enough to think that some political nobody in Galway not paying her train ticket, and the like, has anything at all to do with the problems we are facing.

Oh, and "honesty and integrity" returning? Can you cite the last administration where we had total honesty and integrity? Definitely before my time!

tayto lover wrote: »

It is extremely sad that after all the struggles for Independence during the last 800+ years we have surrendered sovereignty not through the might and tyranny of the invader but through the tyranny and corruption of our own. Very sad indeed.

Well it is a bit more involved than that but no matter.

Bishop_Donal

What still particularly disappoints me is the failure of the people who are in favour of a more balanced and structured approach to taxation in Ireland (i.e. by and large those who support the launch of a property tax) to properly organise themselves.

I firmly believe that non-payment of the HHC (or indeed the new Property Tax when it is introduced) should be treated similarly to fraudulent welfare claims. There should be a substantial incentive for anybody who reports a non-compliant house imo (maybe a full refund of first years HHC - thus ensuring the database is fully created).

To assist, LA's could publish a full list of their known properties (i.e. those who have complied) and a I guess a lot of others (non-compliant) would be quickly identified.

I mooted this idea months ago, and I'm thinking of actually contacting Phil Hogan to formally suggest it. All that said, Data Protection restrictions may prove problematic.

mikom

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

There should be a substantial incentive for anybody who reports a non-compliant house imo (maybe a full refund of first years HHC - thus ensuring the database is fully created).

To assist, LA's could publish a full list of their known properties (i.e. those who have complied) and a I guess a lot of others (non-compliant) would be quickly identified.

I mooted this idea months ago, and I'm thinking of actually contacting Phil Hogan to formally suggest it.

Good Jesus.........

syc·o·phant
A servile self-seeker who attempts to win favor by flattering influential people.

Bishop_Donal

mikom wrote: »

Good Jesus.........

syc·o·phant
A servile self-seeker who attempts to win favor by flattering influential people.

Ah no. Just an individual who is sick to the teeth of the softly softly approach. Just someone who wants to see the usual 'freeloaders' who never pay their share of anything actually forced into complying for once.

I don't want to pay for the processing of their kids college grant applications if you get my drift.

Le_Dieux

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

What still particularly disappoints me is the failure of the people who are in favour of a more balanced and structured approach to taxation in Ireland (i.e. by and large those who support the launch of a property tax) to properly organise themselves.

Got news for you bd

I am ALL in favour of (your quote) a more balanced and structured approach to taxation in Ireland (i.e. by and large those who support the launch of a property tax) to properly organise themselves (end quote).

BUT I haven't paid the HHC nor will I. When the playing field is level, and these damn td's/ministers (?) cllrs and union leaders ( I can think of other words to describe them, but think I may be banned) play the game WE play, as well as the fcukers who got the country into this mess are brought to justice. then I certainly would look favourably on these taxes in the future.

Bannasidhe

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Ah no. Just an individual who is sick to the teeth of the softly softly approach. Just someone who wants to see the usual 'freeloaders' who never pay their share of anything actually forced into complying for once.

I don't want to pay for the processing of their kids college grant applications if you get my drift.

Will you also be asking Phil Hogan why local authority tenants regardless of their incomes are exempt given that they benefit from the local authorities to a greater extent than those who are required to pay? Are they not 'freeloaders'?

ncdadam

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

To assist, LA's could publish a full list of their known properties (i.e. those who have complied) and a I guess a lot of others (non-compliant) would be quickly identified.

I'd love to see them publish these lists too.
I could do with being awarded a few quid from a judge....

tayto lover

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

What still particularly disappoints me is the failure of the people who are in favour of a more balanced and structured approach to taxation in Ireland (i.e. by and large those who support the launch of a property tax) to properly organise themselves.

I firmly believe that non-payment of the HHC (or indeed the new Property Tax when it is introduced) should be treated similarly to fraudulent welfare claims. There should be a substantial incentive for anybody who reports a non-compliant house imo (maybe a full refund of first years HHC - thus ensuring the database is fully created).

To assist, LA's could publish a full list of their known properties (i.e. those who have complied) and a I guess a lot of others (non-compliant) would be quickly identified.

I mooted this idea months ago, and I'm thinking of actually contacting Phil Hogan to formally suggest it. All that said, Data Protection restrictions may prove problematic.

Jesus be careful. If Big Phil deals with non-payers he might have to deal with Reilly, Healy-Eames etc and that would be even further embarrassment. His face is red enough as it is. Then you might have to write to the Portuguese as well.

Bishop_Donal

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Got news for you bd

I am ALL in favour of (your quote) a more balanced and structured approach to taxation in Ireland (i.e. by and large those who support the launch of a property tax) to properly organise themselves (end quote).

BUT I haven't paid the HHC nor will I. When the playing field is level, and these damn td's/ministers (?) cllrs and union leaders ( I can think of other words to describe them, but think I may be banned) play the game WE play, as well as the fcukers who got the country into this mess are brought to justice. then I certainly would look favourably on these taxes in the future.

Maybe you're right! I think all income tax contributors should adopt the same approach. Come to think of it, same for VAT / Excise and Capital Taxes. Lets really ram the country down the Jacks. That'll teach 'them' alright.

Ghandee

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

What still particularly disappoints me is the failure of the people who are in favour of a more balanced and structured approach to taxation in Ireland (i.e. by and large those who support the launch of a property tax) to properly organise themselves.

I firmly believe that non-payment of the HHC (or indeed the new Property Tax when it is introduced) should be treated similarly to fraudulent welfare claims. There should be a substantial incentive for anybody who reports a non-compliant house imo (maybe a full refund of first years HHC - thus ensuring the database is fully created).

To assist, LA's could publish a full list of their known properties (i.e. those who have complied) and a I guess a lot of others (non-compliant) would be quickly identified.

I mooted this idea months ago, and I'm thinking of actually contacting Phil Hogan to formally suggest it. All that said, Data Protection restrictions may prove problematic.

Sure why stop at that?

Why not go completely German and make non payers wear bright yellow houses on their clothes that must be visible at all times?

The lowest of the low is the foe you do not know, and that's the foe you call a supergrass

ncdadam

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Will you also be asking Phil Hogan why local authority tenants regardless of their incomes are exempt given that they benefit from the local authorities to a greater extent than those who are required to pay? Are they not 'freeloaders'?

Now we can't be asking the LA tenants to contribute, don't forget they get no benefit from their subsidised housing and all associated benefits.
And their houses don't give them an income like we get.

Bishop_Donal

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Will you also be asking Phil Hogan why local authority tenants regardless of their incomes are exempt given that they benefit from the local authorities to a greater extent than those who are required to pay? Are they not 'freeloaders'?

I'd have no trouble cordially suggesting to him that LA tenants most certainly should also be paying this contribution.

I'm with you all the way there.

User Pays.

ncdadam

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Lets really ram the country down the Jacks. That'll teach 'them' alright.

They don't need our help to do that.
Here's the results of their policys.


http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/20759961/?view=Standard

Happy days for pro taxers.

dxhound2005

Ghandee wrote: »

Sure why stop at that?

Why not go completely German and make non payers wear bright yellow houses on their clothes that must be visible at all times?

The lowest of the low is the foe you do not know, and that's the foe you call a supergrass

Dolores Price ?

mikom

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Ah no. Just an individual who is sick to the teeth of the softly softly approach. Just someone who wants to see the usual 'freeloaders' who never pay their share of anything actually forced into complying for once.

I don't want to pay for the processing of their kids college grant applications if you get my drift.

You come from the school of thought where the church collection was read out from the altar.
Bishop_Donal......... two and sixpence............. your place in heaven is assured.
Mikom.......... nothing............. hell fire and damnation for you.

Sickening.

Bishop_Donal

ncdadam wrote: »

I'd love to see them publish these lists too.
I could do with being awarded a few quid from a judge....

Always a way around these things though!

Maybe people who are interested could sign a formal contract with their local authority for a temporary period. Pay for performance of course.

dvpower

mikom wrote: »

You come from the school of thought where the church collection was read out from the altar.
Bishop_Donal......... two and sixpence............. your place in heven is assured.
Mikom.......... nothing............. hell fire and damnation for you.

Sickening.

Should the Revenue stop publishing the annual defaulters list?
Should Stubbs Gazette cease publishing?

tayto lover

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Maybe you're right! I think all income tax contributors should adopt the same approach. Come to think of it, same for VAT / Excise and Capital Taxes. Lets really ram the country down the Jacks. That'll teach 'them' alright.

Yes the Jacks was fairly rammed when the bondholders and bankers were looked after. I believe Noonan was a bondholder too, is that right?

darkhorse

lugha wrote: »

a property tax would not suddenly have appeared on the agenda were it not for the urgings of outsiders who have a more sensible attitude to taxation.QUOTE]

I think that should read the urgings of outsiders who have a yearning to get their money back as quick as possible. Don't you believe for one minute that these outsiders are the least bit interested in the welfare of this country, and if there is anyone out there who does believe they are looking out for our welfare, then they are delusional.

mikom

dvpower wrote: »

Should Stubbs Gazette cease publishing?

Ask your FG minister for health James Reilly

Bannasidhe

dvpower wrote: »

Should the Revenue stop publishing the annual defaulters list?
Should Stubbs Gazette cease publishing?

How many years have they been publishing those now? Not much of a deterrent really IMHO.

Bishop_Donal

mikom wrote: »

You come from the school of thought where the church collection was read out from the altar.
Bishop_Donal......... two and sixpence............. your place in heven is assured.
Mikom.......... nothing............. hell fire and damnation for you.

Sickening.

TBH, I prefer the German system on that one (seems to yield a hell of a lot more than our system). No Pay = No Church Funeral.

Bishop_Donal

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes the Jacks was fairly rammed when the bondholders and bankers were looked after. I believe Noonan was a bondholder too, is that right?

Yawn.

Hijpo

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

What still particularly disappoints me is the failure of the people who are in favour of a more balanced and structured approach to taxation in Ireland (i.e. by and large those who support the launch of a property tax) to properly organise themselves.

I firmly believe that non-payment of the HHC (or indeed the new Property Tax when it is introduced) should be treated similarly to fraudulent welfare claims. There should be a substantial incentive for anybody who reports a non-compliant house imo (maybe a full refund of first years HHC - thus ensuring the database is fully created).

To assist, LA's could publish a full list of their known properties (i.e. those who have complied) and a I guess a lot of others (non-compliant) would be quickly identified.

I mooted this idea months ago, and I'm thinking of actually contacting Phil Hogan to formally suggest it. All that said, Data Protection restrictions may prove problematic.

If it would work why have they not thought of it already? Why did it take some joe soap from the public with no background in economics or experienve in chasing down payments to think of it? All the money they are on and supposed experience/qualifications they have and a memer of a message board comes up with a plan and they cant? Are they not able to do there job? Why are we all content to pay there wages if they fall short of the mark all the time?