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Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

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    #8732
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    tayto lover wrote: »
    . I believe Noonan was a bondholder too, is that right?
    Based on what?


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    #8733
    Bishop_Donal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Bishop_Donal


    dvpower wrote: »
    Based on what?

    He probably owned 2 prize bonds!!


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    #8734
    Bishop_Donal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Bishop_Donal


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    How many years have they been publishing those now? Not much of a deterrent really IMHO.

    Maybe you should liaise with your brother-in-arms Mick Wallace to see if publication is a deterrent? It's cost him half his salary (well before he decided to ramp up his expenses claim)!!


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    #8735
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users Posts: 19,219 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Bishop_Donal wrote: »
    Maybe you should liaise with your brother-in-arms Mick Wallace to see if publication is a deterrent? It's cost him half his salary (well before he decided to ramp up his expenses claim)!!

    Any need for that kind of gratuitous remark? Do you think it advances your argument to sling that kind of thing about?


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    #8736
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    darkhorse wrote: »
    I think that should read the urgings of outsiders who have a yearning to get their money back as quick as possible. Don't you believe for one minute that these outsiders are the least bit interested in the welfare of this country, and if there is anyone out there who does believe they are looking out for our welfare, then they are delusional.
    Yes they do want to get their money back, which is why it is in their interests that we get our finances in order, and part of that in turn is us having a sensible taxation system.

    But guess what? Us getting out finances in order is in our own best interests too.


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    #8737
    Bishop_Donal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Bishop_Donal


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Any need for that kind of gratuitous remark? Do you think it advances your argument to sling that kind of thing about?

    Only trying to answer your question. If I just expressed my opinion that publication is quite a deterrent, you mightn't fully grasp my point.....


    In any event, I only ever advocated limited publication of the identities of compliant householders published (thus enabling the Do Register; Do Pay Your Share Group to identify any houses who need a little nudge to do the appropriate thing).


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    #8738
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users Posts: 19,219 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Bishop_Donal wrote: »
    Only trying to answer your question. If I just expressed my opinion that publication is quite a deterrent, you mightn't fully grasp my point.....


    In any event, I only ever advocated limited publication of the identities of compliant householders published (thus enabling the Do Register; Do Pay Your Share Group to identify any houses who need a little nudge to do the appropriate thing).

    Unless your point was to paint me ( a complete stranger about whom you know nothing) as a comrade in arms to Mick Wallace I did indeed miss it. Perhaps if you had made your point sans factitious insults it would have been clearer.

    My point was that the threat of having one's name published doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent given they have been publishing such list for years - yet still people default.

    BTW - where are our cash strapped LA's meant to find the resources to compile and publish such lists?


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    #8739
    Bishop_Donal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Bishop_Donal


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Unless your point was to paint me ( a complete stranger about whom you know nothing) as a comrade in arms to Mick Wallace I did indeed miss it. Perhaps if you had made your point sans factitious insults it would have been clearer.

    Well I must admit I never intended to cause you such grave offence, so please accept my most sincere apologies.:D
    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    My point was that the threat of having one's name published doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent given they have been publishing such list for years - yet still people default.

    I'll remain in disagreement with you on that.
    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    BTW - where are our cash strapped LA's meant to find the resources to compile and publish such lists?

    My guess is that there is a database accumulating every day as more and more people realise that it is in their longterm interest to adhere to the law. If not, it wouldn't take too long to simply upload the detail (i.e. addresses) of 1m compliant households.


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    #8740
    Am Chile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    ncdadam wrote: »
    They don't need our help to do that.
    Here's the results of their policys.


    http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/20759961/?view=Standard

    Happy days for pro taxers.

    I def think there,s gonna be serious trouble on our streets sooner or later-there,s not much more people will be able to take-after watching the trouble after breaking out in Spain earlier in the news-similar trouble will erupt here sooner or later.



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    #8741
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Am Chile wrote: »
    I def think there,s gonna be serious trouble on our streets sooner or later-there,s not much more people will be able to take-after watching the trouble after breaking out in Spain earlier in the news-similar trouble will erupt here sooner or later.

    Well that would give you guys something new to post about.

    Edit: I take that back - I think you're the only regular poster here that actually attends protests.


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    #8742
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    lugha wrote: »
    Yes they do want to get their money back, which is why it is in their interests that we get our finances in order, and part of that in turn is us having a sensible taxation system.

    But guess what? Us getting out finances in order is in our own best interests too.

    You are right there about it being in our best interest to get our finances in order, but unfortunately it wont happen until we pay back what the people who ruined the country, owe. Also, unfortunately, with the government taking most of peoples disposable income(all in some cases)in various taxes and charges, mean that at least half the population, if not more, will just not have the money to spend in the economy, which will decimate the retail sector, causing the loss of many more jobs, which in turn will cause economic stagnation in the country for years to come. I know the status quo of the establishment is not going to change any time soon, but I will say what I have been saying all along, and that is to stimulate economic growth, then worry about paying back debt. I have to agree with the guy that said, the way the government are conducting business is "back to front economics", I think it was Shane Ross.


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    #8743
    Bishop_Donal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Bishop_Donal


    Am Chile wrote: »
    I def think there,s gonna be serious trouble on our streets sooner or later-there,s not much more people will be able to take-after watching the trouble after breaking out in Spain earlier in the news-similar trouble will erupt here sooner or later.

    You may be right as there are certain elements in Irish society who are doing their best to stir it up.

    ...But it sure ain't gonna change the reality that there is a major adjustment to standards of living coming for people over the next few years. It just might serve to speed up the pain (which might be no bad thing ultimately).


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    #8744
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    Am Chile wrote: »
    I def think there,s gonna be serious trouble on our streets sooner or later-there,s not much more people will be able to take-
    It is certainly a real possibility that there will be some civil unrest. But what will that achieve? Some property will be destroyed, scarce policing resources will be diverted to try and contain the trouble. People will be injured, maybe there will even be fatalities.

    And when the dust settles, then the difficulties and challenges that many people are now facing will be every bit as difficult and as challenging.

    Unless of course you can offer an argument as to how such a revolt will compel the government to follow a path which won't be as difficult or as challenging?

    Problem is, nobody can make much of an argument that such a path exists.


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    #8745
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    darkhorse wrote: »
    You are right there about it being in our best interest to get our finances in order, but unfortunately it wont happen until we pay back what the people who ruined the country, owe.
    Our immediate problem is to do with our deficit, not our debt. The debt will be the nightmare that we will to face for the next several decades.
    darkhorse wrote: »
    Also, unfortunately, with the government taking most of peoples disposable income(all in some cases)in various taxes and charges, mean that at least half the population, if not more, will just not have the money to spend in the economy, which will decimate the retail sector, causing the loss of many more jobs, which in turn will cause economic stagnation in the country for years to come.
    Most people appreciate that taking money out of the economy, by any means, will be detrimental to the economy. Unfortunately, not addressing our deficit would be even more destructive. Our choice is between a bad move and a very bad move.


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    #8746
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    Bishop_Donal wrote: »
    Maybe people who are interested could sign a formal contract with their local authority for a temporary period. Pay for performance of course.


    We have been trying that for years. Dos'ent matter how much we fcuking pay them, their performance is sh*te.;);)


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    #8747
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    dvpower wrote: »
    Should the Revenue stop publishing the annual defaulters list?
    Should Stubbs Gazette cease publishing?

    Then we'd never know who's robbing us.


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    #8748
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,756 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Bishop_Donal wrote: »
    Yawn.

    http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net...90606_460s.jpg


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    #8749
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    darkhorse wrote: »
    Then we'd never know who's robbing us.
    So you're in favour of publishing a HHC defaulters list.


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    #8750
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,951 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    How many years have they been publishing those now? Not much of a deterrent really IMHO.

    They are going after different things. I just had a quick look at one of the quarters in 2003 in comparison with one this year. At a glance four out of five in 2003 were bogus non-resident account cases whereas I don't see any of those this year. Lots of underdeclaration of income tax now. I wouldn't dismiss the Revenue so easily and the people acting on the advice of others to break the law now could find themselves following in the very expensive footsteps of the bogus non-residents etc. The advice they took told them they would get away with it too.

    http://www.revenue.ie/en/press/defaulters/archive/index.html

    The big ones are always in Part 2.


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    #8751
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users Posts: 19,219 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    They are going after different things. I just had a quick look at one of the quarters in 2003 in comparison with one this year. At a glance four out of five in 2003 were bogus non-resident account cases whereas I don't see any of those this year. Lots of underdeclaration of income tax now. I wouldn't dismiss the Revenue so easily and the people acting on the advice of others to break the law now could find themselves following in the very expensive footsteps of the bogus non-residents etc. The advice they took told them they would get away with it too.

    http://www.revenue.ie/en/press/defaulters/archive/index.html

    The big ones are always in Part 2.

    I just know that a relative and my mother's hairdresser were both on the published revenue's list. They were embarrassed at the time and then life continued as before.


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    #8752
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    Bishop_Donal wrote: »
    He probably owned 2 prize bonds!!

    It's funny though, but when in opposition, he was always preaching to the govt. to be honest with the people who was paying for everying, ie, us, yet he dos'ent want the taxpayer to know too much.

    FF ‘wanted to burn bondholders’

    By Mary Regan, Political Correspondent
    Tuesday, July 31, 2012


    Fianna Fáil has claimed confidential correspondence exists which would show the party wanted to burn the bondholders — but the ECB would not let them.


    The party has demanded the Department of Finance release the correspondence it claims had been sent to the late Brian Lenihan, the former finance minister.

    A letter from the ECB during negotiations on the bailout deal in late 2010 should be published for the historical record, finance spokesman Michael McGrath insisted.

    He is adamant Mr Lenihan had been advised by the ECB that senior bondholders could not be burnt.

    The Cork South Central TD also believes it would strengthen Ireland’s case in getting a better deal on the bank debt burden "if it is clearly seen Ireland took the losses at the insistence of the ECB".

    However, Michael Noonan, the finance minister, says he will not publish any such correspondence because it would possibly be a breach of trust.

    WHOSE TRUST.


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    #8753
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,756 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Breaking news about Big Phil to be announced on Vincent Browne tonight before appearing in tomorrow's papers.
    What did he do now?


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    #8754
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    you know you've hit the big time when the Revenue publishes your name over a E2 pw tax...


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    #8755
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I just know that a relative and my mother's hairdresser were both on the published revenue's list. They were embarrassed at the time and then life continued as before.
    Its virtually free to publish the tax defaulters list.
    I can think of no good reason to cease publishing it. Even if some people aren't bothered about being about on it, presumably others are.

    I know I would be less likely to do business with someone who was on the list - the deterrent factor is clear to me.


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    #8756
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Breaking news about Big Phil to be announced on Vincent Browne tonight before appearing in tomorrow's papers.
    What did he do now?


    paid up his service charge in portugal apparently:D


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    #8757
    ncdadam
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 598 ✭✭✭ncdadam


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    paid up his service charge in portugal apparently:D

    More like he's being shipped out to brussels for being a complete disgrace and a failure as a minister.


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    #8758
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,756 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    ncdadam wrote: »
    More like he's being shipped out to brussels for being a complete disgrace and a failure as a minister.

    Probably being dropped from the team.


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    #8759
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    ncdadam wrote: »
    More like he's being shipped out to brussels for being a complete disgrace and a failure as a minister.


    i hope they replace him with that Sherlock boy that tried to turn off the Internet...


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    #8760
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users Posts: 19,219 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    dvpower wrote: »
    Its virtually free to publish the tax defaulters list.
    I can think of no good reason to cease publishing it. Even if some people aren't bothered about being about on it, presumably others are.

    I know I would be less likely to do business with someone who was on the list - the deterrent factor is clear to me.

    Personally I have no issue with the Revenue publishing. However in the context of the HHC I think that the idea is unworkable when one considers that it has been admitted they don't know exactly how many households are liable and are so organised that they are sending our reminders to people who have paid. To expect them to be able to correctly publish a list of those who have refused to pay with making a major cock-up of it shows you have far more faith in our various quangos and govt depts then I have.


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    #8761
    ncdadam
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 598 ✭✭✭ncdadam


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Probably being dropped from the team.

    Which will result in a promotion for shorthall to shut her up.
    Same old politics from ff lite.


This discussion has been closed.
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