Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

Am Chile

lugha wrote: »

It is certainly a real possibility that there will be some civil unrest. But what will that achieve? Some property will be destroyed, scarce policing resources will be diverted to try and contain the trouble. People will be injured, maybe there will even be fatalities.

And when the dust settles, then the difficulties and challenges that many people are now facing will be every bit as difficult and as challenging.

Unless of course you can offer an argument as to how such a revolt will compel the government to follow a path which won't be as difficult or as challenging?

Problem is, nobody can make much of an argument that such a path exists.

On loads of different shows and debates several alternative proposals to the current property tax plan and other plans were suggested-a new rate of income tax for those earning over

€100.000 has being suggested, the excuse oh they don,t want to tax work any more-it was revealed earlier this year the 10,000 income tax earners pay an effective rate of 29% income tax, earning €5.959 billion between them., it was suggested to increase the tax per % rate for the highest earners, again similar excuse they don,t want to tax work-a financial transaction tax was suggested , but also brushed aside- In June 2011, the Minister for Finance Michael Noonan admitted in the Dail that a wealth tax applied along the French model would raise 400 to 500 million euro a year if introduced in Ireland-but also so far they have no plans for a wealth tax-the idea alternatives haven,t being put forward by others is simply false.

http://www.patricknulty.ie/?p=1371&print=1

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0704/top-10-000-earners-pay-effectively-29-income-tax.html

dvpower

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Personally I have no issue with the Revenue publishing. However in the context of the HHC I think that the idea is unworkable when one considers that it has been admitted they don't know exactly how many households are liable and are so organised that they are sending our reminders to people who have paid. To expect them to be able to correctly publish a list of those who have refused to pay with making a major cock-up of it shows you have far more faith in our various quangos and govt depts then I have.

I wouldn't expect them to publish names that they are unsure of. Just like the normal Revenue list, it would contain only names of people that had been through the full enforcement process.

Bannasidhe

dvpower wrote: »

I wouldn't expect them to publish names that they are unsure of. Just like the normal Revenue list, it would contain only names of people that had been through the full enforcement process.

Wouldn't that be in the Court Reports published in newspapers anyway?

Aphex Tim

tayto lover wrote: »

Breaking news about Big Phil to be announced on Vincent Browne tonight before appearing in tomorrow's papers.
What did he do now?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A3q42gdCUAAxXFG.jpg:large

bgrizzley

Aphex Tim wrote: »

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A3q42gdCUAAxXFG.jpg:large

lol

dvpower

Aphex Tim wrote: »

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A3q42gdCUAAxXFG.jpg:large

Cue a heap of people who've never had a good thing to say about travelers lambasting Phil Hogan

mikom

Pay your household charge and we'll keep the travellers away folks.

Phil must have come up with a plan to house them in the septic tanks........ ya know... sneak them in when they are being inspected....

Some muppet.

dvpower

ncdadam wrote: »

Which will result in a promotion for shorthall to shut her up.
Same old politics from ff lite.

Did you enjoy constructing that fantasy?

tayto lover

dvpower wrote: »

Cue a heap of people who've never had a good thing to say about travelers lambasting Phil Hogan

Phil doesn't need enemies. He's his own worst enemy. Completely unsuitable to a job in public life. If he was in the army he'd have all his toes blown off by now.

darkhorse

Bannasidhe wrote: »

My point was that the threat of having one's name published doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent given they have been publishing such list for years - yet still people default.

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

I'll remain in disagreement with you on that.

All I can say, Bish, is that ya must have been living under a bleedin rock, judging by your post here. Either that, or ya never heard of stubbs, which I dont think is the case.

Bannasidhe

dvpower wrote: »

Cue a heap of people who've never had a good thing to say about travelers lambasting Phil Hogan

and people who firmly believe the way member's of the Travelling Community are treated in this country is a national disgrace and have never been afraid to say so.

As for Phil Hogan - not even nearly surprised.

dvpower

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Wouldn't that be in the Court Reports published in newspapers anyway?

No. Tax settlements don't generally go near the courts.

dvpower

Bannasidhe wrote: »

and people who firmly believe the way member's of the Travelling Community are treated in this country is a national disgrace and have never been afraid to say so.

As for Phil Hogan - not even nearly surprised.

Surprised by what?
All you know so far is a headline and a couple of paragraphs in a tabloid. Are you not even interested in hearing the details of the story before passing judgment.

tayto lover

dvpower wrote: »

Cue a heap of people who've never had a good thing to say about travelers lambasting Phil Hogan

Didn't he also make a very sexist remark to a woman at a function a few months ago. He seems to have Foot in Mouth disease.

dxhound2005

bgrizzley wrote: »

you know you've hit the big time when the Revenue publishes your name over a E2 pw tax...

The people boasting here that they will never pay any property taxes could run up a few hundred arrears very quickly. The penalties in the property tax legislation could be much stiffer than the HHC perhaps something like the NPPR which €20 a month. People who break one law are often offenders against other laws as well. Revenue are happy to prosecute for things like failure to return VAT for fines as low as €750. I wouldn't really advise people to possibly invite them on by publicly declaring they are tax defaulters. At least the tax evaders who had bogus non-resident accounts etc had the bad grace to try to keep their crimes hidden.

And you only get your name published if you defy the law up to the very last.

Bannasidhe

dvpower wrote: »

No. Tax settlements don't generally go near the courts.

But as I understand it those who do not pay the HHC are being threatened with court action.

bgrizzley

dvpower wrote: »

Cue a heap of people who've never had a good thing to say about travelers lambasting Phil Hogan

Who cares whether we like 'em or not, he's a representative of the government who are bound to protect and cherish all his citizens equally, not discriminate against minorities.
Bad enough proving himself an uncouth sexist pig earlier in the year, now this?

Cmon DV, you cant defend this.

dvpower

Bannasidhe wrote: »

But as I understand it those who do not pay the HHC are being threatened with court action.

As are people who don't pay their other taxes, but court action is only required in a small number of cases.

dvpower

bgrizzley wrote: »

Who cares whether we like 'em or not, he's a representative of the government who are bound to protect and cherish all his citizens equally, not discriminate against minorities.
Bad enough proving himself an uncouth sexist pig earlier in the year, now this?

Cmon DV, you cant defend this.

Defend what exactly?
I, like you, have virtually none of the facts.

mikom

bgrizzley wrote: »

Who cares whether we like 'em or not, he's a representative of the government who are bound to protect and cherish all his citizens equally, not discriminate against minorities.
Bad enough proving himself an uncouth sexist pig earlier in the year, now this?

Cmon DV, you cant defend this.

The equivalent of writing a letter assuring someone that homosexuals would not be allowed to live next door to them.

Bannasidhe

dvpower wrote: »

Surprised by what?
All you know so far is a headline and a couple of paragraphs in a tabloid. Are you not even interested in hearing the details of the story before passing judgment.

Met him. Made my judgement as to my opinion of him then. I seriously doubt what ever revelations are made tonight will impact on that, rather it will confirm it.

dxhound2005

Bannasidhe wrote: »

But as I understand it those who do not pay the HHC are being threatened with court action.

If I owned a private house and it was a choice of going to court or somehow finding €120 or whatever it is to pay the charge to avoid that I would make every effort to get the money. Of course if you want to defy the law to make some political point have your day in court if it comes to that and see how that goes.

Bannasidhe

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If I owned a private house and it was a choice of going to court or somehow finding €120 or whatever it is to pay the charge to avoid that I would make every effort to get the money. Of course if you want to defy the law to make some political point have your day in court if it comes to that and see how that goes.

If I owned a private house - are you actually liable for the HHC?

lugha

Am Chile wrote: »

On loads of different shows and debates several alternative proposals to the current property tax plan and other plans were suggested-a new rate of income tax for those earning over

€100.000 has being suggested, the excuse oh they don,t want to tax work any more-it was revealed earlier this year the 10,000 income tax earners pay an effective rate of 29% income tax, earning €5.959 billion between them., it was suggested to increase the tax per % rate for the highest earners, again similar excuse they don,t want to tax work-a financial transaction tax was suggested , but also brushed aside- In June 2011, the Minister for Finance Michael Noonan admitted in the Dail that a wealth tax applied along the French model would raise 400 to 500 million euro a year if introduced in Ireland-but also so far they have no plans for a wealth tax-the idea alternatives haven,t being put forward by others is simply false.

http://www.patricknulty.ie/?p=1371&print=1

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0704/top-10-000-earners-pay-effectively-29-income-tax.html

Any possible civil unrest will not necessarily come from a property tax per se, it will come, if it does, as people come under more and more pressure from austerity measures.

Thus the challenge, is not to find an alternative to the property tax (if only!), it is to devise a plan that will take us out of this crisis that does not impact severely on ordinary people. Even if all of the measures you suggest presented no difficulties or had no catches, and were implemented, they still would only make an imperceptible dent on our deficit.

Ultimately, ordinary people will have to be asked to make greater sacrifices. Whether that means new taxes, cuts in welfare rates or compulsory PS redundancies (probably all of the above) it will ultimately be ordinary people of one kind or another than may be pushed to the brink and precipitate unrest.

Or do you contend that all of these measures that you list would collectively be enough to deal with the crisis, and no ordinary people need feel any pain?

Aphex Tim

Phil Hogan, showing the true Blue Shirt nature of right wing bigoted FG. He has to go.

dxhound2005

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If I owned a private house - are you actually liable for the HHC?

Yes. Paid it. I was couching the argument in terms of a hypothetical person who was liable but who hadn't paid and was threatened with a court appearance. No court cases in the offing that I know of and everyone can still avoid that by paying the charge with the small enough penaltly attached.

Funnily enough one of the people on the thread is not liable but they keep telling others not to register and not to pay.

bgrizzley

dvpower wrote: »

Defend what exactly?
I, like you, have virtually none of the facts.

he should have come on to VB to defend himself then, but vincent said he was on the way to the ploughing championship(no doubt looking to learn how to dig his way out of a big hole:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:)

bgrizzley

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Funnily enough one of the people on the thread is not liable but they keep telling others not to register and not to pay.

and fair play to him for doing that, he could have just applied for his waiver and kept his mouth shut.

Hijpo

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Yes. Paid it. I was couching the argument in terms of a hypothetical person who was liable but who hadn't paid and was threatened with a court appearance. No court cases in the offing that I know of and everyone can still avoid that by paying the charge with the small enough penaltly attached.

Funnily enough one of the people on the thread is not liable but they keep telling others not to register and not to pay.

Will you pay the property tax and water charges with little fight aswell?
Hypotheticaly, if the government came back in a year and said they were not making enough from the current rates they set and decided to increase them, would you pay just as quick?

If the answer to the above questions is yes, then i would love to be in a position like you. Which is one of having enough income to pay all these charges and still be left with enough to live aswell as having no need for adequate public services for money paid.

dvpower

mikom wrote: »

The equivalent of writing a letter assuring someone that homosexuals would not be allowed to live next door to them.

mikom, you're the gift that keeps giving. Keep up the good work.