Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

Hijpo

ncdadam wrote: »

More of our hard earned tax euro being squandered by our overpaid, under worked, bloated PS. Throwing it around like confetti in the PS.

http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/20763076/?view=Standard

Workers will have to pay it back? Yea, right, good luck to them with that!

Can they do anything right?
Seriously, its one thing after another.

If this run of crap happend in the private sector they would be out on there holes

tayto lover

Hijpo wrote: »

Can they do anything right?
Seriously, its one thing after another.

If this run of crap happend in the private sector they would be out on there holes

I'm afraid our Bankers are in the Private Sector. As are auctioneers, accountants, builders and speculators.

Am Chile

One area where a good per % paid the household tax, what did they get in return ?

RESIDENTS
at one of the city’s biggest housing estates have contributed tens of thousands
of euro through the household charge but still can’t get their local authority
to repair roads or street lights.

http://www.limerickleader.ie/community/community-news/westbury-getting-nothing-in-return-for-household-tax-1-4309047

Now that,s great value for money they paid the household tax and they can,t even get the council to repair roads or streetlights, with such wonderful value for money Im sure they re willing to pay again next year- (Sarcasm)

ncdadam

tayto lover wrote: »

I'm afraid our Bankers are in the Private Sector. As are auctioneers, accountants, developers and speculators.

Fixed that for you Tayto.

tayto lover

ncdadam wrote: »

Fixed that for you Tayto.

Yeah I'm afraid the state of our country is due to the greed at the top of both Sectors. That's what we need to recognize and there's where we need to start the cutting.

Am Chile

Tens of thousands of property owners refusing to pay the household
tax will be tracked through the Land Registry in the coming days.


Property
owners identified through the Property Registration Authority, which oversees
the Land Registry, will receive payment demands shortly.

The
Local Government Management Agency got the names of non-payers from the
authority, which has a database of 1.3m folios of land and properties.

The PRA said the shared data
would allow the identification of the owner name and address, land registry
folio number, folio property number, plan number, geo-locator, and date of
registration in the land registry. The exchange of information had begun on Aug
1, it added.

As opposed
to landlords and multiple property owners who were targeted in the last batch of
letters, this round of warnings is expected to focus on owners of just one
property.

Letters to
owners who have not yet paid will be sent next week. The new wave of threats to
prosecute non-payers comes as penalties and interests will bring the charge up
to €127 after the weekend, a rise by €11.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/household-tax-refusals-tracked-by-registry-208931.html

Three points about this threat they will track people via the land registry,(1) if it so easy to get Information about who owns what properties and where via the land registry one would of thought they would of done so from the very beginning and send people invoices instead of asking people to self register-(2) I asked someone I know who works in a council office months ago can they trace non payers through the land registry, the response I got was the land registry is completely out of date which is main reason they wanted everyone to self register, (3) It was reported last year hundreds aren,t paying nor never registered for the second home tax, it was even admitted it would take too much work to trace people not paying,

HUNDREDS of people are likely to escape the tax on second homes after the
authorities admitted it is too expensive and time consuming to pursue those who
have refused to pay it.

The
Department of the Environment admitted resources were not available to pinpoint
the identities of those dodging the €200-a-year non-principal private residence
(NPPR) charge.

A
spokesman said it would be a costly and time-consuming task to correlate
information from land registry records -- a task beyond the capabilities of most
cash-strapped county councils

If they can,t go after people not paying the second home tax they wouldn,t be able to go after hundreds of thousands not paying the household tax.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hundreds-escape-secondhome-tax-2913935.html

Hijpo

tayto lover wrote: »

Hijpo wrote: »

Can they do anything right?
Seriously, its one thing after another.

If this run of crap happend in the private sector they would be out on there holes

I'm afraid our Bankers are in the Private Sector. As are auctioneers, accountants, builders and speculators.

Sorry your right.
Ordinary people in the private sector.

dxhound2005

Am Chile wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/household-tax-refusals-tracked-by-registry-208931.html

Three points about this threat they will track people via the land registry,(1) if it so easy to get Information about who owns what properties and where via the land registry one would of thought they would of done so from the very beginning and send people invoices instead of asking people to self register-(2) I asked someone I know who works in a council office months ago can they trace non payers through the land registry, the response I got was the land registry is completely out of date which is main reason they wanted everyone to self register, (3) It was reported last year hundreds aren,t paying nor never registered for the second home tax, it was even admitted it would take too much work to trace people not paying,

If they can,t go after people not paying the second home tax they wouldn,t be able to go after hundreds of thousands not paying the household tax.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hundreds-escape-secondhome-tax-2913935.html

This is from the newpaper article on your link.

County councils earned more than €68m from the NPPR charges last year, but it is not known how much potential revenue is being missed out on as a result of people avoiding the tax.


That was referring to 2010 and equates to 340,000 x €200. Self registration system just like the HHC. Nobody knows how many properties in the country are liable for HHC since there was no need to maintain a database for the last 35 years. But through time if the HHC legislation is used to its full extent that can be rectified and if this happens those who evaded the NPPR should be identified too.

I never noticed any big protest movement on behalf of those people who handed over their €200 every year no more than there is much protest against property tax in countries which never abolished it.

bgrizzley

Am Chile wrote: »

One area where a good per % paid the household tax, what did they get in return ?


http://www.limerickleader.ie/community/community-news/westbury-getting-nothing-in-return-for-household-tax-1-4309047

Now that,s great value for money they paid the household tax and they can,t even get the council to repair roads or streetlights, with such wonderful value for money Im sure they re willing to pay again next year- (Sarcasm)

lulz when it starts to dawn on the government they may actually have to start working for this tax...:D

Ghandee

Am Chile wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/household-tax-refusals-tracked-by-registry-208931.html

Three points about this threat they will track people via the land registry,(1) if it so easy to get Information about who owns what properties and where via the land registry one would of thought they would of done so from the very beginning and send people invoices instead of asking people to self register-(2) I asked someone I know who works in a council office months ago can they trace non payers through the land registry, the response I got was the land registry is completely out of date which is main reason they wanted everyone to self register, (3) It was reported last year hundreds aren,t paying nor never registered for the second home tax, it was even admitted it would take too much work to trace people not paying,

If they can,t go after people not paying the second home tax they wouldn,t be able to go after hundreds of thousands not paying the household tax.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hundreds-escape-secondhome-tax-2913935.html

First it was utility bills, then it was mortgage relief, then they'd get you by the nppr, then revenue will collect it, then they'd refuse education grants, then it was a threat of removing your right to vote (:pac::pac::pac:) now its land registry, next up it will be via your hairdresser appointment or your dental records lol.


They. Seriously. Don't. Have. A. Fcucking. Clue.

(I can just predict whats about to be posted)

'They'll catch up with you when you go to sell your house'

Good luck with that one lads, I sincerely doubt I'll be selling before the coalition collapse, or in the next 12 years. :cool:

darkhorse

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I never noticed any big protest movement on behalf of those people who handed over their €200 every year.

Just hazarding a guess here, but maybe the reason that there was no form of protest was because the houses that they had to pay the NPPR charge on, was, as lugha would put it, a cash generating asset. I could be wrong.

Le_Dieux

tayto lover wrote: »

Yeah I'm afraid the state of our country is due to the greed at the top of both Sectors. That's what we need to recognize and there's where we need to start the cutting.

Cutting...or culling?;)

ncdadam

Very quiet around here tonight lads, only dx popping his nose out now and again.
Think there is a few embarrassed pro taxers after last night.
I had to laugh at some of their utterances!

lugha

ncdadam wrote: »

What?, are you saying that the majority of people who rent are unemployed?

No. People who rent, or many of them, will indirectly pay a property tax as their landlords will pass it on.

Izzy Skint wrote: »

how about this.....cut the number of td's by at least a half if not more, cut their advisor's and sundry support staff etc.

Have you as estimate of what you think could be saved by going after the high paying jobs? I would again suggest very little, because there are comparatively very few such people. You would also have to go after the more modestly paid, but far more numerous, wider public sector workers.

Which of course you do!

Izzy Skint wrote: »

THEN !....with all who are left, cut their pay, perks, allowances and pensions

Ah but now, the question I asked was whether it was possible to plot a way out of the crisis, without going after ordinary workers? Your workaround this problem seems to involve designating such workers as other than ordinary (chaffe was the charming term you used!).

But a public sector work on say €40k per year with a mortgage and family to raise etc. will have exactly the same difficulty in dealing with an income reduction (be it a tax increase or wage cut) as would a private sector worker in the same circumstances.

So in short, I think your answer would be that it is not possible to avoid hitting ordinary people.

ncdadam

lugha wrote: »

No. People who rent, or many of them, will indirectly pay a property tax as their landlords will pass it on.

Have you as estimate of what you think could be saved by going after the high paying jobs? I would again suggest very little, because there are comparatively very few such people. You would also have to go after the more modestly paid, but far more numerous, wider public sector workers.

Which of course you do!

Ah but now, the question I asked was whether it was possible to plot a way out of the crisis, without going after ordinary workers? Your workaround this problem seems to involve designating such workers as other than ordinary (chaffe was the charming term you used!).

But a public sector work on say €40k per year with a mortgage and family to raise etc. will have exactly the same difficulty in dealing with an income reduction (be it a tax increase or wage cut) as would a private sector worker in the same circumstances.

So in short, I think your answer would be that it is not possible to avoid hitting ordinary people.

Anyone see the news tonight?
The comptroller and auditor generals report?
Have you seen the way the overpaid, under worked precious PS workers are wasting our money.
You couldn't make half of it up.
Like drunks at a free bar they are.

The report is online, can't be arsed putting up a link.

lugha

ncdadam wrote: »

Anyone see the news tonight?
The comptroller and auditor generals report?
Have you seen the way the overpaid, under worked precious PS workers ........ whinge, whinge .....

Shall we all just ignore the fact that a substantial part of the reason we are in the mess that we are in was down to worldwide, reckless practices by banks and financial institutions. Remind me again what sector they are in?

(Aren’t you a little embarrassed that “your” sector basically made such a complete balls of things? :P)

ncdadam wrote: »

The report is online, can't be arsed putting up a link.

Or reading it I suspect. :pac:

Izzy Skint

tayto lover wrote: »

I'm afraid our Bankers are in the Private Sector. As are auctioneers, accountants, builders and speculators.

... that may be true Tayto, but did we not have public representatives to police them on our behalf?....how effective were they?.....also, who benefited the most from the extra tax paid arising from the actions of these bankers, speculators etc. ?...it wasn't me or you...small hint "benchmar...."
Those builders, bankers etc. were facilitated by our officials, they were allowed to continue with their crazy policies unhindered....they could have been stopped but were not.
The financial regulator was merely a govt. puppet, as is the energy regulator. Pat Neary, the former financial regulator was useless at his job, made an absolute balls of regulating, kept his mouth shut, then when the sh!t hit the fan he was retired quickly by the govt, got a massive pay off and pension and all with no accountability !!....unbelievable !...

Those professions were meant to be policed, they were actually encouraged by the system and authorities to continue their reckless policies and gambling....nobody who benefited from all this complained or uttered one word of caution....why would they?....the ps and union bosses were very happy....industrial peace reigned....happy days for the govt.

Some solitary economists did warn of impending disaster but they were ridiculed and lambasted by our politicians....even EU officials warned Ireland numerous times to cool off the spending but our public representatives effectively gave them two fingers and carried on spending at an ever greater pace....the same politicians who continue to enjoy the fruits of the pension increases introduced during those crazy years of the celtic tiger.

I would personally love to see these [EMAIL="b@stards"]b@stards[/EMAIL] hung up for the misery and hardship they have imposed on the people, both private and public sector !!..but it will never happen, the excesses of those years must be reversed..... but it will never happen, we all know this country is so rotten to the core that we really need to wipe the slate clean and start again with a whole new system and set of rules.

ncdadam

lugha wrote: »

Shall we all just ignore the fact that a substantial part of the reason we are in the mess that we are in was down to worldwide, reckless practices by banks and financial institutions. Remind me again what sector they are in?

(Aren’t you a little embarrassed that “your” sector basically made such a complete balls of things? :P)


Or reading it I suspect. :pac:

And "your sector" continues to suck the country dry, eh?

Smidge

ncdadam wrote: »

Anyone see the news tonight?
The comptroller and auditor generals report?
Have you seen the way the overpaid, under worked precious PS workers are wasting our money.
You couldn't make half of it up.
Like drunks at a free bar they are.

The report is online, can't be arsed putting up a link.

I wouldn't mind a peep at that, where is it?


The report, obviously:o

ncdadam

Smidge wrote: »

[/B]

I wouldn't mind a peep at that, where is it?


The report, obviously:o

Here you go.
It's quite long and detailed.
Good luck!


http://www.audgen.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=1432

Ghandee

ncdadam wrote: »

Here you go.
It's quite long and detailed.
Good luck!


http://www.audgen.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=1432

TLDR lol

I'll wait for the edited, cut and pasted edition by dxhound, :pac::pac::pac:

Le_Dieux

lugha wrote: »

Shall we all just ignore the fact that a substantial part of the reason we are in the mess that we are in was down to worldwide, reckless practices by banks and financial institutions. Remind me again what sector they are in?

(Aren’t you a little embarrassed that “your” sector basically made such a complete balls of things? :P)


Or reading it I suspect. :pac:

The gobsh1tes we had here masquerading as competent(??) Taosai(sp?), CEO of banks etc were a BIG part of the mess Ireland is in today. Yes, the worldwide crash didn't help, but what happened elsewhere didn't stop fingers drumm etc creaming the kitty.

Watched Euronews tonight, started with :
a) The fallout from more enforced cuts in Spain,
b) Straight to Athens for more of the same,
c) head for western europe and stop off in Italy for the fallout there from serious belt-tightening & and finally to................
d) France where they also are beginning to feel serious problems with their economy.

I regard myself as pro-europe, but someone in Brussels, or where ever better get a wake up call and realise these austerity measures are going to backfire in their faces, and cause serious damage to EVERY European economy.

darkhorse

ncdadam wrote: »

Anyone see the news tonight?
The comptroller and auditor generals report?
Have you seen the way the overpaid, under worked precious PS workers are wasting our money.
You couldn't make half of it up.
Like drunks at a free bar they are.

The report is online, can't be arsed putting up a link.

Yeah, nc, and right up to the news to-night, I have been hearing from politicians and economists on television, and even some wannabe politicans and economists on this forum, that the deficit was 15 billion. Now we know why they are coming after us for every spare cent we have. As a matter of fact, if you look closely at the piece in the paper at the choices in the way we may pay the upcoming property tax, you will notice that paying by credit card is one of the options. At least the govt. have a sense of humour, knowing the state the country is in, due in part to borrowing, they are suggesting, in a way, that we may get into a situation where we have to borrow money to pay for yet another tax. Irony or what.

Ghandee

darkhorse wrote: »

Yeah, nc, and right up to the news to-night, I have been hearing from politicians and economists on television, and even some wannabe politicans and economists on this forum, that the deficit was 15 billion. Now we know why they are coming after us for every spare cent we have. As a matter of fact, if you look closely at the piece in the paper at the choices in the way we may pay the upcoming property tax, you will notice that paying by credit card is one of the options. At least the govt. have a sense of humour, knowing the state the country is in, due in part to borrowing, they are suggesting, in a way, that we may get into a situation where we have to borrow money to pay for yet another tax. Irony or what.

Credit cards which they also place an annual Tax on.

taxes upon taxes, upon taxes.

darkhorse

dvpower wrote: »

I could believe what's written in black and white.

FG: Not another cent for Anglo

Wednesday, February 09, 2011 - 02:14 PM


Fine Gael has said that if it elected to Government, it won't put "another cent" of taxpayers' money into Anglo Irish Bank.

It o.k., the majority of us fell for it. They just sounded so convincing and we really needed something to believe in.

ncdadam

lugha wrote: »

Shall we all just ignore the fact that a substantial part of the reason we are in the mess that we are in was down to worldwide, reckless practices by banks and financial institutions. Remind me again what sector they are in?

Remind me again which sector was supposed to be 'regulating' their reckless practices?:rolleyes:

Ah yes, a compliant, toothless watchdog. Remind me again about neary's golden handshake and golden pension?

darkhorse

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

So you categorically know how many defaulters we would have had if we hadn't had the deterrent of publication!! :D:D

Nope.
The point that the poster was trying to make was, that the publication of the names of defaulters in stubbs, does not deter people from defaulting. Put another way, its not a deterrent. I hope this is alright, but I typed it slow just in case.

darkhorse

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

At least the people who actually make a contribution to the country will know when it's time to formally get out.

Just for some of us who may be a bit slow on the uptake, please tell us who are the people you talk about here.

ncdadam

darkhorse wrote: »

Nope.
The point that the poster was trying to make was, that the publication of the names of defaulters in stubbs, does not deter people from defaulting. Put another way, its not a deterrent. I hope this is alright, but I typed it slow just in case.

Sure half the country's in stubbs gazette, it's a badge of honour!:D

darkhorse

lugha wrote: »

People who rent, or many of them, will indirectly pay a property tax.

Including all council tenants?