Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

ncdadam

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Still leaves the queries unanswered on the quango's & the overstaffing of PS.

Fixed that for you LD.

Yea, the quangos eh?
How many have this shower gotten rid of?
How many new ones have been set up?
Remember all the election promises, no?, neither do FG.

dxhound2005

Le_Dieux wrote: »

I could be wrong here DX, but isn't the 100 quid a CHARGE, not a TAX?

You're never wrong.

Le_Dieux

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You're never wrong.

Wow, really DX?

Thanks for the compliment, just wish it were true:-))

Am Chile

Jellicoe wrote: »

Even the Irish public copped on the HHC was a scam.
The HHC has been a total failure. The income tax based one won't be.
There will be no avoiding that one.

If they try to take it at source, I expect the unions will come under pressure from their ordinary members to get off the fence and act in the Interest of their members,one branch of the Unite trade union passed a motion earlier this year calling for Industrial action if a property tax is deducted at source, I expect other branches of the Unite trade union will follow suit,plus other branches of other trade unions also, putting aside that a sec,I was at an anti household tax public meeting recently a old age pensioner said he wasn,t paying the household tax but was concerned next years property tax might be deducted from source-a guy who in the audience stood up to talk he stated he was with the CPSU trade union he basically stated there is a certain per % of CPSU union members working in social welfare and tax offices who have pledged if they are asked to deduct property tax from source-they re not gonna obey those Intructions, I don,t know an exact per % of how many belonging to the CPSU would be willing to defy Instructions -all it would take is a certain per % to do it and others would prob follow suit.

Jellicoe

Le Dieux wrote:

Which raises yet another conundrum: Just how will Revenue distinguish between who has paid the HHC and who hasn't?

The won't give a shyte who's paid it this year or not. They know that fiasco is dead in the water. They'll be no dodging it for taxpayers from 2013 on though. Typical that yet again its the ordinary taxpayers that are hund for everything in Ireland.

ncdadam

Jellicoe wrote: »

The won't give a shyte who's paid it this year or not. They know that fiasco is dead in the water. They'll be no dodging it for taxpayers from 2013 on though. Typical that yet again its the ordinary taxpayers that are hund for everything in Ireland.

As I said before, when the property tax comes in the HHC will be forgotten about.
And they'll only have the details of the foolish ones that registered already.
If the people had held their ground this sham would have been defeated long ago.
Roll over and die Ireland.

Le_Dieux

Jellicoe wrote: »

The won't give a shyte who's paid it this year or not. They know that fiasco is dead in the water. They'll be no dodging it for taxpayers from 2013 on though. Typical that yet again its the ordinary taxpayers that are hund for everything in Ireland.

I think You could well be right there Jellicoe. However that leaves something that will gall the pro payers I know: If the non-payers get away with the charge, they will NOT be paying a cent next year.

I can see the water charge fiasco in Dun Laoghaire all over again!

ncdadam

Le_Dieux wrote: »

I think You could well be right there Jellicoe. However that leaves something that will gall the pro payers I know: If the non-payers get away with the charge, they will NOT be paying a cent next year.

I can see the water charge fiasco in Dun Laoghaire all over again!

And all the ranting and accusations of tax dodging in the world won't change that.;)

Jellicoe

ncadam wrote:

The PS is less than 300,000 people.
By all means, cut the top management first and hardest.
I've told you before where I stand on PS cuts and well you know it.
For some reason you can't take in what I've said and continue to have a go at me when cuts are mentioned
For the record, I think people in the PS who earn €30-€40k should be left alone, nobody, absolutely nobody in the PS should earn more than €100k.
The management sector in the PS are only there for one reason and that's because they wouldn't make it in the private sector.

Yet time and time again you have to be pulled to be reminded to have the honesty to differentiate, and its the top of the Public and Private sector where the real corruption is, and where the real cause of all our problems lie. But this doesn't suit does it ? How else could you envy begrude and hate your orindary neighbour eh ? Pathetic.

ncadam wrote:

Anybody with an ounce of ambition does not go into the PS, full stop.

Complete horseshyte, try telling that to anyone in a rural area with no employment and are damned glad to get a wage in a zero options area. Again this displays your real envy frenzy. So get the qualifications and apply, or suck it up.

ncdadam

Jellicoe wrote: »

Yet time and time again you have to be pulled to be reminded to have the honesty to differentiate, and its the top of the Public and Private sector where the real corruption is, and where the real cause of all our problems lie. But this doesn't suit does it ? How else could you envy begrude and hate your orindary neighbour eh ? Pathetic.



Complete horseshyte, try telling that to anyone in a rural area with no employment and are damned glad to get a wage in a zero options area. Again this displays your real envy frenzy. So get the qualifications and apply, or suck it up.

You would do well to read the mod warning a few pages back and tone it down a bit.

dxhound2005

Jellicoe wrote: »

The won't give a shyte who's paid it this year or not. They know that fiasco is dead in the water. They'll be no dodging it for taxpayers from 2013 on though. Typical that yet again its the ordinary taxpayers that are hund for everything in Ireland.

You might remember that there has already been one failed attempt in the Dail to have the HHC act repealed. If it is not repealed the provisions making all penalties, arrears and interest a charge on the property will still stand. And it will be illegal for any legal professional to carry out conveyancing of any property unless the charges are paid in full.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0619/sf-urges-support-for-household-charge-repeal-bill.html

http://www.ohod.ie/index.php/property-conveyancing/property-law-news/104-pay-the-household-charge-or

Burden on the Property

Again the Goverment has provided an elegant if infuriating way of ensuring the Household Charge is collected. The amount owing, complete with late payment fees and interest will be a burden on the property for a period of 12 years from the date it first became due and owing. So it becomes in essence a charge on your property, and will need to be removed come time to sell or remortgage with a Bank.

This is reinforced by section 10 which provides that before the completion of any sale all household charges, late payment fees and late payment interest shall be paid. Failure to do this is a criminal offence and not only can the vendor be liable, but also the vendor’s Solicitor.

Section 11 of the act provides that any attempt to forge a document in respect of the Household chare will incur custodial sentences of up to 2 years or a fine of €25,000.

Le_Dieux

Jellicoe wrote: »

Complete horseshyte, try telling that to anyone in a rural area with no employment and are damned glad to get a wage in a zero options area. Again this displays your real envy frenzy. So get the qualifications and apply, or suck it up.

Hate to disagree with You NC. I am self employed, haven't a clue how to kkeep the ball rolling ( owe the revenue money), am battling to stay afloat. If I had the chance to join the PS and be guaranteed a job for life...well, am well into my 50's lol...I'd take it without hesitation.

I know it won't happen of course.:cool:

Am Chile

Le_Dieux wrote: »

I think You could well be right there Jellicoe. However that leaves something that will gall the pro payers I know: If the non-payers get away with the charge, they will NOT be paying a cent next year.

I can see the water charge fiasco in Dun Laoghaire all over again!

I read the sunday business post earlier today, info on water charges they won,t disconnect water altogether for non payment, they might restrict the flow of water instead,sometime over the next months there will be leaflets sent out to every household outling why water charges and setting up Irish water is necessary, an Irish water call centre is also to be set up, all the ear markings of privatization, I remember very well the last anti water rates campaign, there was volunteers on the ground to reconnect houses if they disconnected it was only temporary, be the same this time, if they attempt to restrict the flow of water, there will be there will be volunteers on the ground to increase the flow back to normal, Labour especially will be pay a heavy price come next local and national elections.

ncdadam

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You might remember that there has already been one failed attempt in the Dail to have the HHC act repealed. If it is not repealed the provisions making all penalties, arrears and interest a charge on the property will still stand. And it will be illegal for any legal professional to carry out conveyancing of any property unless the charges are paid in full.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0619/sf-urges-support-for-household-charge-repeal-bill.html

http://www.ohod.ie/index.php/property-conveyancing/property-law-news/104-pay-the-household-charge-or

Burden on the Property

Again the Goverment has provided an elegant if infuriating way of ensuring the Household Charge is collected. The amount owing, complete with late payment fees and interest will be a burden on the property for a period of 12 years from the date it first became due and owing. So it becomes in essence a charge on your property, and will need to be removed come time to sell or remortgage with a Bank.

This is reinforced by section 10 which provides that before the completion of any sale all household charges, late payment fees and late payment interest shall be paid. Failure to do this is a criminal offence and not only can the vendor be liable, but also the vendor’s Solicitor.

Section 11 of the act provides that any attempt to forge a document in respect of the Household chare will incur custodial sentences of up to 2 years or a fine of €25,000.

So, when the HHC is scrapped (because even this shower of incompetent fools wouldn't try and have a HHC plus a property tax) if you don't sell for 12 years, which most won't, your away scott free. Grand job.

Jellicoe

dxhound wrote:

You might remember that there has already been one failed attempt in the Dail to have the HHC act repealed. If it is not repealed the provisions making all penalties, arrears and interest a charge on the property will still stand. And it will be illegal for any legal professional to carry out conveyancing of any property unless the charges are paid in full.

Yep, but a lot of people have no intention of selling their house in the next 12 years, and they cannot go any further back than that. So who gives a toss ?

ncdadam

Am Chile wrote: »

I read the sunday business post earlier today, info on water charges they won,t disconnect water altogether for non payment, they might restrict the flow of water instead,sometime over the next months there will be leaflets sent out to every household outling why water charges and setting up Irish water is necessary, an Irish water call centre is also to be set up, all the ear markings of privatization, I remember very well the last anti water rates campaign, there was volunteers on the ground to reconnect houses if they disconnected it was only temporary, be the same this time, if they attempt to restrict the flow of water, there will be there will be volunteers on the ground to increase the flow back to normal, Labour especially will be pay a heavy price come next local and national elections.

If labour continue on the route their on, they'll be wiped out in the local elections. That thing with shorthall will not have gone down well with 99% of staunch labour supporters.

Le_Dieux

ncdadam wrote: »

Fixed that for you LD.

Yea, the quangos eh?
How many have this shower gotten rid of?
How many new ones have been set up?
Remember all the election promises, no?, neither do FG.

I am googling around here trying to find out how many bloody quangos there are and were before this govt came to power ( IE to see how many they have abolished/culled).

I can't find out, but came across this interesting thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055661896

And go to post #14. The mind boggles - I accept that FG/Lab didn't set up the vast majority of these leeches on the tax payers money...but really????

Le_Dieux

ncdadam wrote: »

If labour continue on the route their on, they'll be wiped out in the local elections. That thing with shorthall will not have gone down well with 99% of staunch labour supporters.

Wanted to think they might go the way of the PD's & the Greens ( they are gone?) but guess they won't. But I do think what has already happened, and still down the road will set them back probably 50 years. As for EG...I think he will be history, and probably Burton will take over.

Purely my assumption of course.

ncdadam

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Wanted to think they might go the way of the PD's & the Greens ( they are gone?) but guess they won't. But I do think what has already happened, and still down the road will set them back probably 50 years. As for EG...I think he will be history, and probably Burton will take over.

Purely my assumption of course.

And for what end?
To make the very people they're supposed to represent suffer the most?
Maybe they're hoping the 300,000 odd in the PS will vote them in again.

dvpower

Jellicoe wrote: »

Even the Irish public copped on the HHC was a scam.
The HHC has been a total failure. The income tax based one won't be.
There will be no avoiding that one.

There is no 'income tax based' one.

Anyway, the HHC brought in c.100m so far - hardly a total failure.

Le_Dieux

ncdadam wrote: »

And for what end?
To make the very people they're supposed to represent suffer the most?
Maybe they're hoping the 300,000 odd in the PS will vote them in again.

Still trying to find out, but everytime I try to dig, I keep getting sent back to references for the UK ( They also are having major crap with their quangos). According to Wikipedia though, they say the following:
Ireland


Ireland in 2006 had more than 800 quangos, 482 at national and 350 at local level, with a total of 5,784 individual appointees and a combined annual budget of €13 billion.[10]


This is/was utter madness!!!

dvpower

Am Chile wrote: »

If they try to take it at source, I expect the unions will come under pressure from their ordinary members to get off the fence and act in the Interest of their members,one branch of the Unite trade union passed a motion earlier this year calling for Industrial action if a property tax is deducted at source, I expect other branches of the Unite trade union will follow suit,plus other branches of other trade unions also, putting aside that a sec,I was at an anti household tax public meeting recently a old age pensioner said he wasn,t paying the household tax but was concerned next years property tax might be deducted from source-a guy who in the audience stood up to talk he stated he was with the CPSU trade union he basically stated there is a certain per % of CPSU union members working in social welfare and tax offices who have pledged if they are asked to deduct property tax from source-they re not gonna obey those Intructions, I don,t know an exact per % of how many belonging to the CPSU would be willing to defy Instructions -all it would take is a certain per % to do it and others would prob follow suit.

A single branch of the Unite trade union (whose workers will have no part in collecting the Property tax) voted for strike action. That will have no effect at all.

The CPSU as a union will not take any action when told to collect this tax - they certainly haven't indicated any action. Obviously individual workers may take unofficial action, but I'd say a tax collector who refuses to collect tax is going to find themselves in serious trouble.

If the anti Property Tax crowd seriously expect workers to put their careers on the line to oppose the property tax when they can't even be bothered to organise a half decent campaign themselves, then they are seriously deluded.

ncdadam

The HHC has split the country in two.
Neighbour against neighbour, discriminating against one section of society, so in that sense it was a complete success.
Take a bow FG and all your supporters. Collins would be proud of you.

dvpower

ncdadam wrote: »

The HHC has split the country in two.

It has?:eek:

You hardly see a mention of it in the media anymore, but apparently there is a miniature civil war raging.:D

ncdadam

dvpower wrote: »

It has?:eek:

You hardly see a mention of it in the media anymore, but apparently there is a miniature civil war raging.:D

Wait until we see then.
600,000 people haven't paid and if renters had to pay you can be sure the most of them wouldn't pay either.
Civil war? Your commander in chief from the formation of your party must be turning in his grave.

Maggie 2

dvpower wrote: »

The CAHWT seems to have gone into hibernation. Here's a full list of their planned events.




Maybe they've taken the advise of many around here that the best way to defeat the tax is to ignore it.

That's obvious from the small amount attending their protests! THEY are being ignored!

ncdadam

Maggie 2 wrote: »

That's obvious from the small amount attending their protests! THEY are being ignored!

The CAHWT are a joke.
Anyone with any credibility stays as far away from them as possible.

Vizzy

ncdadam wrote: »

You would do well to read the mod warning a few pages back and tone it down a bit.

Congrats on being appointed a (back seat)Mod.

I miised the party !

dvpower

Maggie 2 wrote: »

That's obvious from the small amount attending their protests! THEY are being ignored!

ncdadam wrote: »

The CAHWT are a joke.
Anyone with any credibility stays as far away from them as possible.

True enough.

The truth is that there is no coherent campaign.
I can't think of even one prominent voice that is articulating the anti Property Tax arguement at all.

And that's why the tax will be implemented and tax evaders will be detected and brought into line.

ncdadam

Vizzy wrote: »

Congrats on being appointed a (back seat)Mod.

I miised the party !

Very good contribution!