Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

ncdadam

dvpower wrote: »

True enough.

The truth is that there is no coherent campaign.
I can't think of even one prominent voice that is articulating the anti Property Tax arguement at all.

And that's why the tax will be implemented and tax evaders will be detected and brought into line.

Does it need a campaign?
Don't think so.
People who won't pay have their reasons for not doing so.

Jellicoe

There is no 'income tax based' one.

There will be, its the only way they can collect it. As usual the ordinary taxpayer will pick up the tab yet again.

Anyway, the HHC brought in c.100m so far - hardly a total failure.

I suppose it managed to buy a few cigars and cocktails for the bondholders and other private multi-millionaire speculators, but it was still a major fiasco, even by fiasco phil standards.

dvpower

Jellicoe wrote: »

There will be, its the only way they can collect it. As usual the ordinary taxpayer will pick up the tab yet again.

You're mixing up your taxes and your tax collection authorities.

Jellicoe wrote: »

I suppose it managed to buy a few cigars and cocktails for the bondholders and other private multi-millionaire speculators

See. A success!

dvpower

ncdadam wrote: »

Does it need a campaign?
Don't think so.
People who won't pay have their reasons for not doing so.

Depends how you measure success.
To have the tax abolished, you need some coherent campaign.

If sucess is measured on how long an individual can evade it for then I guess you don't need a campaign for that. Just hide 'till your caught - job done.

Jellicoe

dvpower wrote:

You're mixing up your taxes and your tax collection authorities.

Actually the government had to overlap them to make collection work. I don't care what name they put on it.

ncdadam

dvpower wrote: »

Depends how you measure success.
To have the tax abolished, you need some coherent campaign.

If sucess is measured on how long an individual can evade it for then I guess you don't need a campaign for that. Just hide 'till your caught - job done.

600,000 individuals.

ncdadam

Jellicoe wrote: »

Actually the government had to overlap them to make collection work. I don't care what name they put on it.

A tax is a tax, is a tax, is a tax.
Call it whatever they like, it's a tax on one's income.
An income tax that discriminates against people who own houses.
What difference does it make what it's called, people have income and this tax will have to be paid from that income.
Income tax hikes by the back door from FG, only for some though.

Ghandee

Just a quick reminder folks.

Tomorrow, €1, billion euro will be stolen from Irish coffers to pay back AIB bondholders.
Not much coverage about it from the main stream media, but it was non secured, non guaranteed, and didn't have to be paid.

Think of where your money is really going, when you mull over your decision about volunteering your details to this govt, who in turn will hand them over to our European superiors.

Why didn't the govt burn (even this one only) this Bond?
That's approx six years worth of hhc payments right there.


Don't register, don't pay.

dvpower

The new property price database has just been published.

If the property tax is based on property value, rather than site value, this will be a useful tool to help many people self assess the value of their homes. And also a tool that the Revenue could use to verify assessments.

golden lane

Ghandee wrote: »

Just a quick reminder folks.

Tomorrow, €1, billion euro will be stolen from Irish coffers to pay back AIB bondholders.
Not much coverage about it from the main stream media, but it was non secured, non guaranteed, and didn't have to be paid.

Think of where your money is really going, when you mull over your decision about volunteering your details to this govt, who in turn will hand them over to our European superiors.

Why didn't the govt burn (even this one only) this Bond?
That's approx six years worth of hhc payments right there.


Don't register, don't pay.

a bond is when you give your word (your bond) that you will pay back what you borrow. it is the fundamental basis of borrowing......and has to be paid back.......unsecured loans and shares are a completely different thing.....


if bonds are not paid back......the government will not be able to issue any more....what state will the country be in then...???????

darkhorse

Le_Dieux wrote: »

I am googling around here trying to find out how many bloody quangos there are and were before this govt came to power ( IE to see how many they have abolished/culled).

I can't find out, but came across this interesting thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055661896

And go to post #14. The mind boggles - I accept that FG/Lab didn't set up the vast majority of these leeches on the tax payers money...but really????

I think that their reasoning for leaving quango's as they are is that they dont want the dole figures any higher.:eek:

darkhorse

golden lane wrote: »

a bond is when you give your word (your bond) that you will pay back what you borrow.
QUOTE]

I did'nt give my word to pay money back that someone else borrowed, did you? Did anyone on boards give their word that I would pay any part of this money, if so, have I any redress.

darkhorse

Just before I go to bed, I just want to say to murph that I am sorry if I upset you to the point of leaving us, just by asking you a question. You are not on your own in not being able to answer my questions, so I just want you to know that I harbour no hard feelings towards you. Anyway, I'll say goodnight and live long and prosper.
dh

ncdadam

dvpower wrote: »

The new property price database has just been published.

If the property tax is based on property value, rather than site value, this will be a useful tool to help many people self assess the value of their homes. And also a tool that the Revenue could use to verify assessments.

Ah yes, property value rather than site value.
We wouldn't want to tax the old friends of governments, the developers, who are sitting on land banks until values rise. FF all over again.
So we base it on property values instead to ensure people in Dublin pay the most, another piece of discrimination by FG. Couldn't have someone in Mayo or Kilkenny paying the same as a Dub eh, even though services are cheaper to provide in large urban areas by volume.

dvpower

ncdadam wrote: »

Ah yes, property value rather than site value.
We wouldn't want to tax the old friends of governments, the developers, who are sitting on land banks until values rise. FF all over again.
So we base it on property values instead to ensure people in Dublin pay the most, another piece of discrimination by FG. Couldn't have someone in Mayo or Kilkenny paying the same as a Dub eh, even though services are cheaper to provide in large urban areas by volume.

What a mixed up post!

The decision to base the Property Tax on site or full property value has not yet been taken.
Basing it on site value only would disadvantage Dubliners even more than basing it on full property value; the cost of bricks and mortar is reasonably similar all around the country - but sites are dramatically more expensive in urban centres.

ncdadam

dvpower wrote: »

What a mixed up post!

The decision to base the Property Tax on site or full property value has not yet been taken.
Basing it on site value only would disadvantage Dubliners even more than basing it on full property value; the cost of bricks and mortar is reasonably similar all around the country - but sites are dramatically more expensive in urban centres.

Point is, once again the governments buddies, the developers, get away again, sitting on landbank's all over the country.
You would agree that a landbank is an asset, wouldn't you?
Urban centers should be cheaper to service because of the number of properties, but once again it'll be shown that this tax on peoples incomes has nothing to do with providing services.

NB, only two months from the budget and it hasn't been decided yet? Smacks on incompetence does that. What are they going to do, decide the day before the budget?LOL

dvpower

ncdadam wrote: »

Point is, once again the governments buddies, the developers, get away again, sitting on landbank's all over the country.

Whose getting away with what?
You must be privy to decisions that the rest of us aren't.

Chips Lovell

Ghandee wrote: »

Just a quick reminder folks.

Tomorrow, €1, billion euro will be stolen from Irish coffers to pay back AIB bondholders.
Not much coverage about it from the main stream media, but it was non secured, non guaranteed, and didn't have to be paid.

But AIB is still trading? Are you suggesting that the bank should default?

Bullseye1

ncdadam wrote: »

Done that myself, but when someone else quotes the ones on ignore it's there for all to see.
Just not responding to trolls is probably the best way but sometimes it has to be responded to.
Mind you when one poster is telling another to STFU, short for shut the fcuk up, it oversteps the mark.

That is an unfortunate glitch in the software. I'm sure the web developers could do something on this.

tayto lover

dvpower wrote: »

Depends how you measure success.
To have the tax abolished, you need some coherent campaign.

If sucess is measured on how long an individual can evade it for then I guess you don't need a campaign for that. Just hide 'till your caught - job done.

I am getting fed up hiding DV. This little garden shed is quite congested with 800 thousand of us hiding here. Great craic at night though.

dvpower

tayto lover wrote: »

I am getting fed up hiding DV. This little garden shed is quite congested with 800 thousand of us hiding here. Great craic at night though.

That sure is a lot of imaginary friends to have.:pac:

ncdadam

tayto lover wrote: »

I am getting fed up hiding DV. This little garden shed is quite congested with 800 thousand of us hiding here. Great craic at night though.

Plenty of beers in for tonight tayto?

bgrizzley

tayto lover wrote: »

I am getting fed up hiding DV. This little garden shed is quite congested with 800 thousand of us hiding here. Great craic at night though.

ncdadam wrote: »

Plenty of beers in for tonight tayto?

here you go guys, when you are at lidl get a few 4 packs of Hoegaarden for me...

http://s1.jrnl.ie/media/2012/10/sd-bondholder-bill-630x378.jpg

Le_Dieux

ncdadam wrote: »

Ah yes, property value rather than site value.
We wouldn't want to tax the old friends of governments, the developers, who are sitting on land banks until values rise. FF all over again.
So we base it on property values instead to ensure people in Dublin pay the most, another piece of discrimination by FG. Couldn't have someone in Mayo or Kilkenny paying the same as a Dub eh, even though services are cheaper to provide in large urban areas by volume.

You mention Kilkenny NC? Ain't that phil's territory?:pac:

Am Chile

Spotted this property tax billboard at a bus stop earlier-its disgraceful they re resorting to using the plight of people in third world countries to try soften people up for next years property tax.

Ghandee

Am Chile wrote: »

Spotted this property tax billboard at a bus stop earlier-its disgraceful they re resorting to using the plight of people in third world countries to try soften people up for next years property tax.

No disrespect Am Chile, but I strongly suspect the focal point of that ad campaign is more of a 'if you think you've problems' campaign.

The charity (not sure who) have decided to point out basically that we're all going though first world problems, compared to the poor Haitian residents.

Unfortunately, austerity is pushing a lot of people into poverty with each passing day.

ncdadam

Am Chile wrote: »

Spotted this property tax billboard at a bus stop earlier-its disgraceful they re resorting to using the plight of people in third world countries to try soften people up for next years property tax.

That one's for havenpartnership.com AC.
It's a registered charity here in Ireland raising money for Haiti.

dvpower

Am Chile wrote: »

Spotted this property tax billboard at a bus stop earlier-its disgraceful they re resorting to using the plight of people in third world countries to try soften people up for next years property tax.

Brilliant.

Am Chile

Ghandee wrote: »

No disrespect Am Chile, but I strongly suspect the focal point of that ad campaign is more of a 'if you think you've problems' campaign.

The charity (not sure who) have decided to point out basically that we're all going though first world problems, compared to the poor Haitian residents.

Unfortunately, austerity is pushing a lot of people into poverty with each passing day.

I looked into whos running these billboards, it seems there is similar billboards about water charges- I found the following on Clare Dalys site.

The Haven Partnership was founded in 2008 and launched by Leslie Buckley, Denis O’Brien’s new frontman at Independent News & Media. Buckley is a shareholder in Millington, the winning bidder for Siteserv, with water meter installation interests in Ireland. Clearly Buckley’s philanthropy is now firmly linked with softening hard pressed Irish taxpayers for water charges,

http://www.claredaly.ie/daly-condemns-obriens-frontman/

tayto lover

Am Chile wrote: »

Spotted this property tax billboard at a bus stop earlier-its disgraceful they re resorting to using the plight of people in third world countries to try soften people up for next years property tax.

There used to be an advert showing how you could feed a family of four for 8 euro a week in Somalia. I nearly sent the family over