Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

Bullseye1

These ****ers think there is still a gravy train.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1001/oireachtas-recess-allowances.html

Izzy Skint

Am Chile wrote: »

Spotted this property tax billboard at a bus stop earlier-its disgraceful they re resorting to using the plight of people in third world countries to try soften people up for next years property tax.

after seeing that ad, they won't be getting one cent from me.......those ads should be directed towards the govt. who are wasting billions every year.
.....and how much did it cost to run those ads?

dvpower

Izzy Skint wrote: »

after seeing that ad, they won't be getting one cent from me.......those ads should be directed towards the govt. who are wasting billions every year.
.....and how much did it cost to run those ads?

Too right. We're forced to pay a property tax while those Haitians get free houses and don't have to pay a penny!!!

ITS NOT FAIR

Hijpo

Bullseye1 wrote: »

These ****ers think there is still a gravy train.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1001/oireachtas-recess-allowances.html

Aslong as we are working and willing to give them our money for little or no return there will always be a gravey train for them.

Vizzy

Am Chile wrote: »

I looked into whos running these billboards, it seems there is similar billboards about water charges- I found the following on Clare Dalys site.



http://www.claredaly.ie/daly-condemns-obriens-frontman/[/QUOTE]

Did you find any mention of Mick Wallace on her site ?

Izzy Skint

dvpower wrote: »

Too right. We're forced to pay a property tax while those Haitians get free houses and don't have to pay a penny!!!

ITS NOT FAIR

well DV, according to another pro-taxer's reasoning, LUGHA, those unfortunate homeless people in Haiti are generating an income by the virtue of not having to pay rent !!......and I am not trying to be funny, take it up with Lugha if you have a problem with that...

Izzy Skint

dvpower wrote: »

Too right. We're forced to pay a property tax while those Haitians get free houses and don't have to pay a penny!!!

ITS NOT FAIR

"We're forced to pay a property tax".....you are half right there DV, they are trying to FORCE us, they have tried to bully us, they have threatened us and sometimes they have even resorted to pleading with us....and none has worked....we haven't paid anything yet, and never will...

tayto lover

Twenty thousand people turned up in Kilkenny this evening to cheer the hurlers and boo Phil Hogan.

darkhorse

dvpower wrote: »

The new property price database has just been published.

If the property tax is based on property value, rather than site value, this will be a useful tool to help many people self assess the value of their homes. And also a tool that the Revenue could use to verify assessments.

This from the irish times on 13 sep.

THE EAGERLY anticipated property price register will not be used as a valuation tool for the forthcoming property tax, the Department of Justice has said.
The register, which is due to go online at the end of this month, has been long-awaited as the first transparent measure of house prices in the Republic.
A statement from the department ruled out the possibility that the register will be used to estimate the value of homes after the Government confirmed last week it will introduce a value-based property tax.
“It should be emphasised that this is not a property price index and will not form the basis for the valuation of any property tax,” it stated.
A department spokesman said that the basis on which valuations will be made will be a matter for the Revenue Commissioners.

lugha

Having real the post on the charity ad, and in particular some of the responses to it, I think the thread, which has been flirting with surrealism for some time, had finally gone fully Dali! (And it’s a Monday night so ye can’t blame the drink! :P)

So time for any sane people remaining sane people to bid adieu!

But one final puzzlement re this …..

Izzy Skint wrote: »

well DV, according to another pro-taxer's reasoning, LUGHA, those unfortunate homeless people in Haiti are generating an income by the virtue of not having to pay rent !!......and I am not trying to be funny, take it up with Lugha if you have a problem with that...

I am not going to bother to correct your glaring mistake, there is obviously no point. But I am genuinely baffled as to why you, or anyone else would have bought a house, if it wasn’t for the obvious economic benefit of being the owner?

Granted, there are lesser soft reasons such as the full freedom to do what you will with it, but surely the principle reason for doing so was that it cut out a middle man that would be your land lord, leading to substantial and on-going savings, or what I would call a nominal income stream?

Or are you one of these who erroneously think that if your total mortgage now is costing more that your rent did, then you’re down on the whole deal?

But I know I won’t get a satisfactory answer on this. Just as I couldn’t get one on the whole “but taxing your home is immoral” nonsense. Just as I couldn’t get one on the bogus “but this tax is unfair" argument.

But who knows! There are over half a million (and falling! ) in the won’t pay camp. I won’t give up hope that there might be someone, somewhere, who can answer these questions.

Maggie 2

tayto lover wrote: »

Twenty thousand people turned up in Kilkenny this evening to cheer the hurlers and boo Phil Hogan.

How many turned up at the protest outside AIB headquarters? Did any? Sit behind yer computers and moan all ye like, but as usual do sweet FA about it. Let others protest for ye.

Dub XV

lugha wrote: »

Having real the post on the charity ad, and in particular some of the responses to it, I think the thread, which has been flirting with surrealism for some time, had finally gone fully Dali! (And it’s a Monday night so ye can’t blame the drink! :P)

So time for any sane people remaining sane people to bid adieu!

But one final puzzlement re this …..



I am not going to bother to correct your glaring mistake, there is obviously no point. But I am genuinely baffled as to why you, or anyone else would have bought a house, if it wasn’t for the obvious economic benefit of being the owner?

Granted, there are lesser soft reasons such as the full freedom to do what you will with it, but surely the principle reason for doing so was that it cut out a middle man that would be your land lord, leading to substantial and on-going savings, or what I would call a nominal income stream?

Or are you one of these who erroneously think that if your total mortgage now is costing more that your rent did, then you’re down on the whole deal?

But I know I won’t get a satisfactory answer on this. Just as I couldn’t get one on the whole “but taxing your home is immoral” nonsense. Just as I couldn’t get one on the bogus “but this tax is unfair" argument.

But who knows! There are over half a million (and falling! ) in the won’t pay camp. I won’t give up hope that there might be someone, somewhere, who can answer these questions.

We bought our house to provide a stable living situation for the family.

I couldn't live with the worry of a landlord moving us on every 12 months.

To me that's the simple point.

You only worry about the economics. There was a time when renting my neighbours house would have been cheaper than the morgage on ours??

donalg1

Maggie 2 wrote: »

How many turned up at the protest outside AIB headquarters? Did any? Sit behind yer computers and moan all ye like, but as usual do sweet FA about it. Let others protest for ye.

But sure dont you know the best way to protest is by doing nothing!!

Ghandee

Maggie 2 wrote: »

How many turned up at the protest outside AIB headquarters? Did any? Sit behind yer computers and moan all ye like, but as usual do sweet FA about it. Let others protest for ye.

How many did Tipp FM say attended?
They seem to be your 'official' news source. :pac:

Maggie 2

Ghandee wrote: »

How many did Tipp FM say attended?
They seem to be your 'official' news source. :pac:

Unfortunately there was no mention of the protest on any news station, local or national!
@donalg1 Yes the best way of protest is to do nothing, just let the country go down the pan and moan until there is no-one left to hear you!

Dickerty

I am still astounded at how easily people can pat themselves on the back for breaking the law. Which, as a matter of simple fact, is what people are doing. We pay tax through VAT, Income, USC, PAYE, CGT, CIT, and so on. We pay it cause we cannot NOT pay it. But as soon as there is the ability to NOT pay a tax, we come up with a hundred reasons not to pay. Not because we CAN'T, just cause we don't want to.

It's the equivalent of not putting money in the basket at mass cause the Church have made huge mistakes themselves, and trying to find a way to punish them.

The fact that this money would actually go towards services that we all need seems easily forgotten. People do a simple corrolation to "the bankers" or politicians expenses, and let themselves off paying it. Forget the fact the public sector pay, or school rebuilding, or that lovely new road that you drive to work on is paid for from the same pot...

Ghandee

Maggie 2 wrote: »

Unfortunately there was no mention of the protest on any news station, local or national!
@donalg1 Yes the best way of protest is to do nothing, just let the country go down the pan and moan until there is no-one left to hear you!

Wasn't much mention of the unsecured Bond being paid over at all Maggie.

Strange that.

tayto lover

Maggie 2 wrote: »

How many turned up at the protest outside AIB headquarters? Did any? Sit behind yer computers and moan all ye like, but as usual do sweet FA about it. Let others protest for ye.

Oh the hurt of being a Fine Gaeler

tayto lover

Dickerty wrote: »

I am still astounded at how easily people can pat themselves on the back for breaking the law. Which, as a matter of simple fact, is what people are doing. We pay tax through VAT, Income, USC, PAYE, CGT, CIT, and so on. We pay it cause we cannot NOT pay it. But as soon as there is the ability to NOT pay a tax, we come up with a hundred reasons not to pay. Not because we CAN'T, just cause we don't want to.

It's the equivalent of not putting money in the basket at mass cause the Church have made huge mistakes themselves, and trying to find a way to punish them.

The fact that this money would actually go towards services that we all need seems easily forgotten. People do a simple corrolation to "the bankers" or politicians expenses, and let themselves off paying it. Forget the fact the public sector pay, or school rebuilding, or that lovely new road that you drive to work on is paid for from the same pot...

What about putting a figure of ONE BILLION in the church collection then? That would raise a few eyebrows.

crusher000

It's amazing some people still don't get it that these new taxes/payments are not to support local services but to pay the debts of the bond holders and bank debts. 1 billion of OUR MONEY handed over yesterday. that would fix a few roads and build schools .

Ghandee

Dickerty wrote: »

I am still astounded at how easily people can pat themselves on the back for breaking the law. Which, as a matter of simple fact, is what people are doing. We pay tax through VAT, Income, USC, PAYE, CGT, CIT, and so on. We pay it cause we cannot NOT pay it. But as soon as there is the ability to NOT pay a tax, we come up with a hundred reasons not to pay. Not because we CAN'T, just cause we don't want to.

It's the equivalent of not putting money in the basket at mass cause the Church have made huge mistakes themselves, and trying to find a way to punish them.

The fact that this money would actually go towards services that we all need seems easily forgotten. People do a simple corrolation to "the bankers" or politicians expenses, and let themselves off paying it. Forget the fact the public sector pay, or school rebuilding, or that lovely new road that you drive to work on is paid for from the same pot...

If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. – Thomas Jefferson

Dickerty

crusher000 wrote: »

It's amazing some people still don't get it that these new taxes/payments are not to support local services but to pay the debts of the bond holders and bank debts. 1 billion of OUR MONEY handed over yesterday. that would fix a few roads and build schools .

Do you understand capital markets? You know what happens to our future bond yields if we default on ANY of these payments?

We end up like Greece, shut out for years and years to come. Which leaves them in deep recession, with limited external support.

Do you know how that that would be for a country so reliant on exports and FDI?

Dickerty

Ghandee wrote: »

If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. – Thomas Jefferson

How convenient! And of course, the decision of whether it is unjust or not is entirely yours. An easy argument to make...

Dickerty

tayto lover wrote: »

What about putting a figure of ONE BILLION in the church collection then? That would raise a few eyebrows.

But we are not talking about 1Bn, we are taking about €100, which is a legal tax on the property that you own. I don't like it any more than any of you, I am not wealthy - 1 income, 3 young kids, and supporting our inlaws for the last 2 years. But taking a stand on this cause it's easy is a lazy approach. How many of the people who have not paid have made a more active stand? Inactivity is not the same as activity...

crusher000

Dickerty wrote: »

Do you understand capital markets? You know what happens to our future bond yields if we default on ANY of these payments?

We end up like Greece, shut out for years and years to come. Which leaves them in deep recession, with limited external support.

Do you know how that that would be for a country so reliant on exports and FDI?

But that wasn't the argument I was defending. I was defending the argument of non payment affecting local services. If the above points that you wish to argue away with ya me lad.

Ghandee

Dickerty wrote: »

Do you understand capital markets? You know what happens to our future bond yields if we default on ANY of these payments?

We end up like Greece, shut out for years and years to come. Which leaves them in deep recession, with limited external support.

Do you know how that that would be for a country so reliant on exports and FDI?

Or, Iceland.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1207/iceland-business.html

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-26/is-remedy-for-next-crisis-buried-in-iceland-view-correct-.html

Hijpo

crusher000 wrote: »

It's amazing some people still don't get it that these new taxes/payments are not to support local services but to pay the debts of the bond holders and bank debts. 1 billion of OUR MONEY handed over yesterday. that would fix a few roads and build schools .

You forgot to make the point that this happens indirectly. You really have to be extremely clear and precise posting if your against these charges. The pro tax brigade will jump on you and twist your words and figures like the spin doctors being payed by the government. You see the next thing you will see posted in reply to that is "its ring fenced" :pac:

So to fix your post

It's amazing some people still don't get it that these new taxes/payments are to fill the void in funding for local services left after the government take money from the state coffers that would usually go to fund these services, to pay the debts of the bond holders and bank debts. 1 billion of OUR MONEY handed over yesterday. that would fix a few roads and build schools

And what you'll probably see now is "are you disputing the fact that even without the bailouts we have a deficit"

all to predictable from the pro's

Dickerty

crusher000 wrote: »

But that wasn't the argument I was defending. I was defending the argument of non payment affecting local services. If the above points that you wish to argue away with ya me lad.

It all comes from the same pot of money. Do you put €2 in your left pocket for coffee, and then walk to work cause you can't afford the bus? Of course not. If everyone paid their €100, we'd have still paid that 1Bn. So we'd still be better off.

Chips Lovell

crusher000 wrote: »

It's amazing some people still don't get it that these new taxes/payments are not to support local services but to pay the debts of the bond holders and bank debts. 1 billion of OUR MONEY handed over yesterday. that would fix a few roads and build schools .

As has been pointed out already, that was an AIB bond. The bank is still trading. Unless you're actually arguing that the bank should default and all that entails, it needed to pay it.

Dickerty

Ghandee wrote: »

Or, Iceland.

The fact that you make that comparison doesn't help your argument. Iceland and Greece are poles apart. Iceland's issues were far earlier on, they were able to devalue the currency, as Greece (and others) would have if they had that control. Their issues were also far more transparent than Greece's, it was largely banking debt, whereas Greece have a huge hole in tax receipts due to a fundamentally corrupt system.

Chalk and feta cheese.