Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

Ghandee

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

As has been pointed out already, that was an AIB bond. The bank is still trading. Unless you're actually arguing that the bank should default and all that entails, it needed to pay it.

Who owns AIB now?

98.8% of it?

The Irish tax payer?

Hijpo

Dickerty wrote: »

It all comes from the same pot of money. Do you put €2 in your left pocket for coffee, and then walk to work cause you can't afford the bus? Of course not. If everyone paid their €100, we'd have still paid that 1Bn. So we'd still be better off.

But if you could ONLY afford one of those things and you were late you would take the bus ie: prioritising

Now, if you couldnt afford local essential services would you:
A) Make cuts to non essentials

or

Allow this to happen http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1001/oireachtas-recess-allowances.html
that is not the only piss take expressed by politicians, fat cats and senior civil servants. Cutting 750,000 will not make a dent on this "deficit" but 80% of loopholes closed, quangos squashed, needless allowances stopped, pensions and salaries cut and what ever else these "politicians for the perks" are getting were stopped then it would make a big difference

Chips Lovell

Ghandee wrote: »

Who owns AIB now?

98.8% of it?

The Irish tax payer?

Correct. Do you think it's wise that a bank we own default?

VINCWM

So why aren't the guys that put us in this mess locked up?
You know who...

Forget it, too many friends.

Ghandee

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Correct. Do you think it's wise that a bank we own default?

No, but when it became a state owned bank, all bets should have been off.

The bank guarantee will prove to be the greatest act of treason on the country ever.

crusher000

If it was up to me yes as I have no savings in any bank. As modern Ireland has turned into screw you jack I think that's what it is. It is costing me more to have no money in any bank than to have it and save and pay the charges etc. that go with it.

Chips Lovell

Ghandee wrote: »

No, but when it became a state owned bank, all bets should have been off.

The bank guarantee will prove to be the greatest act of treason on the country ever.

That repayment wasn't made under the bank guarantee.

If it had become a state owned bank and announced it wasn't repaying its bonds, it would have had to be wound up. The whole point of buying into the bank was so that it could repay its commitments.

Dickerty

Hijpo wrote: »

But if you could ONLY afford one of those things and you were late you would take the bus ie: prioritising

Now, if you couldnt afford local essential services would you:
A) Make cuts to non essentials

or

Allow this to happen http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1001/oireachtas-recess-allowances.html
that is not the only piss take expressed by politicians, fat cats and senior civil servants. Cutting 750,000 will not make a dent on this "deficit" but 80% of loopholes closed, quangos squashed, needless allowances stopped, pensions and salaries cut it would make a big difference

Again, the easy argument - point at the wasteful expenses of politicians and say "I'm not paying". Even though we spend many multiples of that 750K (which unfortunately they are entitled to) on education, health, welfare etc.

If you paid your €100, only a few cent could be considered wasted, maybe a few Euro go against bank debt, and the rest on "real" costs...

Dickerty

VINCWM wrote: »

So why aren't the guys that put us in this mess locked up?
You know who...

Forget it, too many friends.

Again, NOTHING to do with the household charge. Just an easy argument to convince yourself not to pay it.

flutered

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Correct. Do you think it's wise that a bank we own default?

why not, if in a personal capacity you had to keep paying into something forever with no return, would you keep paying or default.

Chips Lovell

flutered wrote: »

why not, if in a personal capacity you had to keep paying into something forever with no return, would you keep paying or default.

Because we'd have zero hope then of recouping the €20 billion we put into the bank.

Dickerty

crusher000 wrote: »

If it was up to me yes as I have no savings in any bank. As modern Ireland has turned into screw you jack I think that's what it is. It is costing me more to have no money in any bank than to have it and save and pay the charges etc. that go with it.

So take it out, or shop around. Some BS don't have the same levels of charges. But this is modern banking, not just in Ireland. They cannot make the big money from investment banking and loan books, so they need to recover smaller amounts from retail banking, which was getting an easy ride before.

golden lane

darkhorse wrote: »

golden lane wrote: »

a bond is when you give your word (your bond) that you will pay back what you borrow.
QUOTE]

I did'nt give my word to pay money back that someone else borrowed, did you? Did anyone on boards give their word that I would pay any part of this money, if so, have I any redress.

the government did.....on your behalf.

that is why there is a government......to act on your behalf.....

squod

Dickerty wrote: »

Again, the easy argument - point at the wasteful expenses of politicians and say "I'm not paying". Even though we spend many multiples of that 750K (which unfortunately they are entitled to) on education, health, welfare etc.

If you paid your €100, only a few cent could be considered wasted, maybe a few Euro go against bank debt, and the rest on "real" costs...

50, 60 or 70% is going on wages and pensions schemes for pen pushers in the PS. That's a massive waste. Are you telling me you're willing to hand over hundreds of euros next year to prop up someone else's pension?

In most cases these people can better afford a pension than I can.

Dickerty

They should start teaching Bond Markets 101 to everyone who thinks we should just stop paying. It's mind-blowing how little people understand the downside of such an action. I wonder it the same people feel the same about not paying their mortgage, or car loan? I bet they don't, because they KNOW the impact of that - repossession.

Every mis-step in repaying bonds will cost you in the long run. Even the whisper of a threat of non-payment will send yields up. And all of this defines how much we pay for future bond issuances.

Dickerty

squod wrote: »

50, 60 or 70% is going on wages and pensions schemes for pen pushers in the PS. That's a massive waste. Are you telling me you're willing to hand over hundreds of euros next year to prop up someone else's pension?

In most cases these people can better afford a pension than I can.

Now we are arguing for PS reform, which I fully agree needs doing. However, I know teachers and firemen and nurses, and none of them are pen pushers. And NO business operates without admin staff to keep things ticking over. Even with the dead wood stripped away, the public sector will still be huge, because it is supporting us, the public.

If you want it to cost less, you need to decide what you will do with fewer of - road sweepers? doctors? gardeners in public parks? home help? police officers?
Something has to give...

Ghandee

golden lane wrote: »

the government did.....on your behalf.

that is why there is a government......to act on your behalf.....

The govt got elected on lies and broken promises.


They're not acting on the vast majority of voters behalf when they believed they would not continue with FF's failed and selfish policies.

squod

Dickerty wrote: »

They should start teaching Bond Markets 101 to everyone who thinks we should just stop paying. It's mind-blowing how little people understand the downside of such an action. I wonder it the same people feel the same about not paying their mortgage, or car loan? I bet they don't, because they KNOW the impact of that - repossession.

Every mis-step in repaying bonds will cost you in the long run. Even the whisper of a threat of non-payment will send yields up. And all of this defines how much we pay for future bond issuances.

I think no-one at this stage is too bothered about the money thats essentially already lost. People want justice. Politicians, civil servants, bankers plenty of people all belong behind bars for their' part in the Anglo bail-out fraud.

People need to be taught about justice 101. Bad guys go to jail.

donalg1

Ghandee wrote: »

The govt got elected on lies and broken promises.


They're not acting on the vast majority of voters behalf when they believed they would not continue with FF's failed and selfish policies.

Well in fairness now anyone that voted for FG on their election promises were living in cloud cuckoo land, it was quite clear they were never going to be able to deliver on the majority of their pre election promises. We were holding an election to elect the second tier of government in Ireland who were always going to be answerable to Europe. Anyone we elected would have ended up answering to Europe and acting as their puppets and spokespersons.

darkhorse

Izzy Skint wrote: »

well DV, according to another pro-taxer's reasoning, LUGHA, those unfortunate homeless people in Haiti are generating an income by the virtue of not having to pay rent !!......and I am not trying to be funny, take it up with Lugha if you have a problem with that...

lugha wrote: »

Having real the post on the charity ad, and in particular some of the responses to it, I think the thread, which has been flirting with surrealism for some time, had finally gone fully Dali! (And it’s a Monday night so ye can’t blame the drink! :P)
I am not going to bother to correct your glaring mistake, there is obviously no point. But I am genuinely baffled as to why you, or anyone else would have bought a house, if it wasn’t for the obvious economic benefit of being the owner?

Does all this waffle from you, of which I had to cut out half of it, cause you make just as much sense as most politicians who continually keep telling us what is best for us, mean that in your opinion, us people here that own our own houses are generating incomes from our houses, but the same principle does not apply anywhere else.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
The part from the above posters post, which is in bold, tell us is it true or not.

golden lane

Ghandee wrote: »

The govt got elected on lies and broken promises.


They're not acting on the vast majority of voters behalf when they believed they would not continue with FF's failed and selfish policies.

that is not the point.......


they borrowed money, and gave their bond to pay it back.......

they need to borrow to run the country.....

so they need to borrow more.....if they can't be trusted, then people will not lend....it is simple...

how the countrty got into it's present state......has nothing to do with the lenders...

so, stop moaning and pay your debts.......

Ghandee

golden lane wrote: »

that is not the point.......


they borrowed money, and gave their bond to pay it back.......

they need to borrow to run the country.....

so they need to borrow more.....if they can't be trusted, then people will not lend....it is simple...

how the countrty got into it's present state......has nothing to do with the lenders...

so, stop moaning and pay your debts.......

I do pay my debts.

I won't have the name defaulter stamped on my head. :rolleyes:

golden lane

Ghandee wrote: »

I do pay my debts.

I won't have the name defaulter stamped on my head. :rolleyes:

good.....

if everybody was like you.....

there would be no crisis......

darkhorse

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

As has been pointed out already, that was an AIB bond. The bank is still trading. Unless you're actually arguing that the bank should default and all that entails, it needed to pay it.

I think I will just take the side of Constantin Gurdgiev on this one, Vlad. He seems to know about these things.

Hijpo

Im just going to reorganise a few lines there

golden lane wrote: »

how the countrty got into it's present state......has nothing to do with the lenders...

if they can't be trusted, then people will not lend....it is simple....

How can you expect people to cough up money to the same regime that decided to sign off on all this increases that put the country in this present state (and even if they didnt sign off on them, they didnt put up much of an argument even when they were told the bubble would burst) a regime that cannot be trusted because of there personal ties to bankers and fat cats.

You dont expect people to lend to people that cannot be trusted, but its okay for the ordinary individual to ply them with money?

lmao,

Ghandee

golden lane wrote: »

good.....

if everybody was like you.....

there would be no crisis......

Starting with govt party members?

darkhorse

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Correct. Do you think it's wise that a bank we own default?

Why not. Did'nt we try to default on some of our own citizens, who we owe a good quality of life to.






People with disabilities continue their protest outside Leinster House ...

Chips Lovell

darkhorse wrote: »

Why not. Did'nt we try to default on some of our own citizens, who we owe a good quality of life to.

Do you think AIB defaulting would have left us with more or less money for the disabled?

darkhorse

golden lane wrote: »

darkhorse wrote: »

the government did.....on your behalf.

that is why there is a government......to act on your behalf.....

Funny enough, when it suits them, its on my behalf. But I have to tell ya, I would have rathered that the government use any spare money to put the country back to work, then when things are better in the economy they could pay the debts of others if they so wished. Guess they just did'nt want my input though.

darkhorse

Dickerty wrote: »

If you paid your €100, only a few cent could be considered wasted QUOTE]

Dont you believe it for a minute.:mad: