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Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

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    #902
    The_Thing
    Registered Users Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭The_Thing


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    If Enda starts dying his hair black and grows a little moustache someone's gonna have to take him out!

    .....and dye his shirt from blue to brown, too.


  • Options
    #903
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,950 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Ghandee wrote: »
    No, I'm guestimating it will be a waste of paper though.

    Possibly not for our friend Hondasam. I have been following the internal debate he is having with himself on the thread.


  • Options
    #904
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,756 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    MagicSean wrote: »
    On the day the offence is committed? A Sunday no less? What criminal justice system are you living in?



    That's up to him.



    Again it's a law and not a personal bill. Do you also object to the Gardaí tracing owners of phones or vehicles for enforcing the law?



    I doubt they want the owners names. The addresses would be just as useful.

    There are a few reasons why people could object legitimately to this bill. Lack of means testing for one would be my problem with it. Lack of hypothecation would be another. Throwing in ****e about his holiday home management fees is a desperate excuse and to be honest I expected a higher standard of argument from some of the posters here.

    Ah now does it not suit you ?
    I think its quite an appropriate thing to mention. Like the Minister in charge of this Service Charge refusing to pay his own sounds like HYPOCRITE to me.
    Plus you chose to say its up to Phil to sue the Indo (which it is) but denied that this occurred at all beforehand. You are very selective Sean in what you want to believe. If you don't like it you choose not to believe it.


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    #905
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    MagicSean wrote: »
    I doubt they want the owners names. The addresses would be just as useful.

    What good would an address out in the sticks be, they need home owners name. I think you have to give your PPS number when you register.
    Throwing in ****e about his holiday home management fees is a desperate excuse and to be honest I expected a higher standard of argument from some of the posters here.

    You cannot dismiss the faci he is refusing to pay his management fee which he signed up to when he bought his property.


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    #906
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    Ghandee wrote: »
    No, I'm guestimating it will be a waste of paper though.
    Welcome back, you really get burgled?


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    #907
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    If you get a letter asking for payment will that be scaremongering?

    How am I going to get a letter asking for payment?


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    #908
    Cantona's Collars
    Registered Users Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I told you lot that the people were angry.

    Strange how the worst thing I heard being shouted at the Phil lookalike was "shame on you",the media of course blew it all up to be sensationalist,a bit like the figures they claimed that paid this charge.


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    #909
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    Ghandee wrote: »
    No, I'm guestimating it will be a waste of paper though.
    welcome back...did you really get burgled? did they steal the €100 you were saving to prove to Phil the Chancer how patriotic you were?


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    #910
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Ahh now - where to start?
    Ghandee wrote: »
    Sorry for the lack of input today, spent the day with family.

    So to summarise, correct me if I'm wrong here though.

    Phil Hogan refused to spend over 4k on a service contract on his luxury holiday home in the Algarave, a charge that presuambly goes towards the upkeep of hois apartment (service charge) and again, was presuamably in a contract he was shown, and agreed to before signing his name?.
    And now is in dispute over the service provider not meeting their contractual obligations? Yep.

    Ghandee wrote: »
    Phil has been quoted as asking if anyone else would pay for something they themselves werent happy with?.
    In relation to a contracted service? Yep.

    Ghandee wrote: »
    DVpower, admitted to me last night that Inland Revenue would not be chasing anyone in Ireland for this charge as it was not a tax, but a charge..
    It's a tax. A tax that Revenue (this isn't the UK - no need for the 'Inland' bit) are not responsible for administrating - just like motor tax, commercial rates, the TV licence etc.

    Ghandee wrote: »
    We have Alastair (whom seems to be DV's mate) countering this, by insisting it is a tax (even though its called a household charge..
    Because it's a tax. The Universal Social Charge is also a tax.

    Ghandee wrote: »
    Alastair himself admits to 'not paying his poll tax' when he lived in the UK, despite claiming that everyone liable must pay the household charge, (keep up Alastair, its a charge not a tax) as it was 'law of the land'.
    When did I claim that everyone must pay because it's the law? I've consistently said that it is the law, and trhat everyone will end up paying, but that's quite a different thing. I was also quite clear that the Poll Tax was clearly unfair, while the Household Charge is not. Two different situations. I'm delighted for anyone to try not paying this - it's going to cost them, not me.


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Then we have folk from the yes side declaring that we all receive services from the govt/LA, even those living in rural areas, people with no footpaths, no street lighting, no libaries, parks, swimmingpools etc etc..
    Everyone does - irrespective of whether their road has a footpath/swimmingpool/whatever.


    Ghandee wrote: »
    No one in Ireland, (unlike big Phil) signed any contract obliging them to pay any charge put on their property, some may have thought long and hard before purchasing said property, if they at that time, had to factor in possibly over a grand a year extra in payments,
    YET, we have Phil Hogan himself, threatening OAP's, unemployed, vulnerable, that unless they pay a household charge, laws will be changed, doors ewill be knocked, to FORCE these people to pay up?.
    It's a tax - people will be forced to pay up - just as they are with every other tax.

    Ghandee wrote: »
    Irish public dont want to pay a charge, they never knew was coming, many refusing to pay because they are not happy with the services they currently receive..
    And?

    Ghandee wrote: »
    Minister Phil Hogan, does not want to pay a charge to cover services on his private property, a charge he had seen, and most probably agreed to BEFORE taking on/signing up for in said property, because 'he was unhappy with the services received'..
    And?

    Ghandee wrote: »
    You couldnt make it up lads, hypocrisy, lies, dictatorship.

    Hogan should hang his head in shame..
    If you say so - you have some extra insight as to his contractual dispute?

    Ghandee wrote: »
    Alastair and Dvpower have been caught out deliberatly trying to mislead people on this thread, with one of them actually admitting to tax evasion in the UK, whilst calling anyone on this threada 'law breaker' because they made a stand against a bullying, lying Govt, and refused to pay a household charge, (remember DV, you admittted yourself its not a tax).
    I broke the law - I don't deny it. How does that change the status of those who are breaking this law? It' still a tax btw.


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Excuse me from here on in if I just disregard anything I see on my computer screen that has been typed by either of you from here on in.


    My closing note:

    Shame on you both.

    I'll try and struggle on, knowing that you disapprove. :rolleyes:


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    #911
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    Just back from a pleasant day with the family, can't believe the amount of comment on Hogan's holiday apartment -completely irrelevant to our economic reality and a sign of desperation from the 'no' side.



    Post of the day?

    No question, has to be.....

    tayto lover wrote: »
    Many may pay in time but the protest has been an outstanding success at deadline time.

    comedy gold Tayto, you've still got it.


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    #912
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Ghandee wrote: »
    DVpower, admitted to me last night that Inland Revenue would not be chasing anyone in Ireland for this charge as it was not a tax, but a charge.
    Were you drinking last night?
    1. The Inland Revenue are a UK authority, so they wouldn't be involved in the collect of this charge at all.
    2. The Revenue Commissioners aren't involved in the collection, but not because of the status of the household charge being a charge or a tax.
    I might have to bring out the venn diagrams again, but the Revenue Commissioners are responsible for colection of various charges, taxes, duties and levies, as are other authorities, but not for all charges, taxes, duties and levies. For example, the Revenue are not responsible for the collection of Motor tax.
    Ghandee wrote: »
    (remember DV, you admittted yourself its not a tax)
    I didn't. You must have misunderstood me. Here's what I said last night.
    ===============================================
    Ghandee wrote: »
    Do revenue have the power to chase you on a household charge as it is not a household tax?

    Genuine question.
    dvpower wrote: »
    No. The Revenue have no part to play in this at all (apart from sharing databases).
    My only reason for introducing the Revenue is as an example of where attachment orders are routine.


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    #913
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,950 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    hondasam wrote: »
    How am I going to get a letter asking for payment?

    http://www.joe.ie/news-politics/current-affairs/government-could-spend-half-a-million-on-stamps-for-household-charge-letters-0022683-1


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    #914
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    black francis wrote: »
    Just back from a pleasant day with the family, can't believe the amount of comment on Hogan's holiday apartment -completely irrelevant to our economic reality and a sign of desperation from the 'no' side.

    Glad you had a pleasant day with the family.

    hogan's holiday home is not irrelevant, he is refusing to pay the fee he signed up for simple really. He knew he was obliged to pay it, we were never told we would have to pay this charge/tax/fee.


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    #915
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    hondasam wrote: »
    Glad you had a pleasant day with the family.

    hogan's holiday home is not irrelevant, he is refusing to pay the fee he signed up for simple really. He knew he was obliged to pay it, we were never told we would have to pay this charge/tax/fee.

    Nope, still not seeing it's relevance to the budget deficit.


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    #916
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Possibly not for our friend Hondasam. I have been following the internal debate he is having with himself on the thread.

    She.

    Have a bit of manners.


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    #917
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    http://www.joe.ie/news-politics/current-affairs/government-could-spend-half-a-million-on-stamps-for-household-charge-letters-0022683-1

    Who will it be addressed to? They can send a letter but it's not necessarily to the owner. This letter will be asking for owner details I guess.


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    #918
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    hondasam wrote: »
    Glad you had a pleasant day with the family.

    hogan's holiday home is not irrelevant, he is refusing to pay the fee he signed up for simple really. He knew he was obliged to pay it, we were never told we would have to pay this charge/tax/fee.

    I heard he didn't pay for a 99 from the icecream van in Portugal too - proof that the Houshold Charge shouldn't be paid! He asked for raspberry ripple ande then ran away. They can jail me before I bow down before such injustice!


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    #919
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,756 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    black francis wrote: »
    Just back from a pleasant day with the family, can't believe the amount of comment on Hogan's holiday apartment -completely irrelevant to our economic reality and a sign of desperation from the 'no' side.



    Post of the day?

    No question, has to be.....




    comedy gold Tayto, you've still got it.

    Ah now Francis you shouldn't let things get up your nose.
    I know a MILLION refusals is a shocking kick in the teeth to the F.G. supporters but the people have spoken.
    I would have given "Post of the Day" to this shocking revelation -

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/phil-hogan-refuses-to-pay-4k-service-charges-on-his-portugal-holiday-penthouse-3067684.html


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    #920
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    black francis wrote: »
    Just back from a pleasant day with the family, can't believe the amount of comment on Hogan's holiday apartment -completely irrelevant to our economic reality and a sign of desperation from the 'no' side.



    Why is it irrelevant?

    Mightn't look too good having our minister for the environment up before the courts in Portugal for non-payment of service charges.


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    #921
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Ah now does it not suit you ?
    I think its quite an appropriate thing to mention. Like the Minister in charge of this Service Charge refusing to pay his own sounds like HYPOCRITE to me.
    Plus you chose to say its up to Phil to sue the Indo (which it is) but denied that this occurred at all beforehand. You are very selective Sean in what you want to believe. If you don't like it you choose not to believe it.

    Does it suit me? What does that even mean?

    I would think you would understand the difference between a legal charge and a private invoice. It's like the difference between a parking fine and a clampers fee. Do you think there is the same obligation to pay both? Be honest now.

    As to the article. She states that Phil Hogan said (not a quote mind you) that local council workers would be going to remind people of the charge, nothing about enforcement, like the Independent reported.
    hondasam wrote: »
    What good would an address out in the sticks be, they need home owners name. I think you have to give your PPS number when you register.

    The ESB have the actual locations though, that's how they can send their engineers.
    hondasam wrote: »
    You cannot dismiss the faci he is refusing to pay his management fee which he signed up to when he bought his property.

    I'm not. I'm saying that a disputed private bill has no relevance to a statutory charge.


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    #922
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    hondasam wrote: »
    Who will it be addressed to? They can send a letter but it's not necessarily to the owner. This letter will be asking for owner details I guess.

    You pay stamp duty? You ever get mortgage relief? Your name on a deed of sale?

    You imagine that they're unable to trace home owners through the same means that every other nation manages to apply property taxes to property owners?


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    #923
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    alastair wrote: »
    I heard he didn't pay for a 99 from the icecream van in Portugal too - proof that the Houshold Charge shouldn't be paid! He asked for raspberry ripple ande then ran away. They can jail me before I bow down before such injustice!

    have you had a few scoops?


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    #924
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    alastair wrote: »
    Ahh now - where to start?


    And now is in dispute over the service provider not meeting their contractual obligations? Yep.



    In relation to a contracted service? Yep.



    It's a tax. A tax that Revenue (this isn't the UK - no need for the 'Inland' bit) are not responsible for administrating - just like motor tax, commercial rates, the TV licence etc.



    Because it's a tax. The Universal Social Charge is also a tax.



    When did I claim that everyone must pay because it's the law? I've consistently said that it is the law, and trhat everyone will end up paying, but that's quite a different thing. I was also quite clear that the Poll Tax was clearly unfair, while the Household Charge is not. Two different situations. I'm delighted for anyone to try not paying this - it's going to cost them, not me.




    Everyone does - irrespective of whether their road has a footpath/swimmingpool/whatever.




    It's a tax - people will be forced to pay up - just as they are with every other tax.



    And?



    And?



    If you say so - you have some extra insight as to his contractual dispute?



    I broke the law - I don't deny it. How does that change the status of those who are breaking this law? It' still a tax btw.





    I'll try and struggle on, knowing that you disapprove. :rolleyes:
    it is obviously unfair, it applies only to owners and it takes no account of the size of the house or household or the assets or ability to pay of the owner. it's unfair , it's unjust, and it deserves to be challenged!


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    #925
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Ah now Francis you shouldn't let things get up your nose.
    I know a MILLION refusals is a shocking kick in the teeth to the F.G. supporters but the people have spoken.
    I would have given "Post of the Day" to this shocking revelation -

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/phil-hogan-refuses-to-pay-4k-service-charges-on-his-portugal-holiday-penthouse-3067684.html

    That MILLION flew away a while ago. Time to move on.


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    #926
    m.oderator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭m.oderator


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    And, we're off.......

    DON'T REGISTER / DON'T PAY

    Agree, why should this filthy left wing gov't tax us on what we already own.

    Interesting thread here too on the same topic :D

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2056592766


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    #927
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    black francis wrote: »
    Nope, still not seeing it's relevance to the budget deficit.

    No surprise there, you see what you want to see. It makes PH look rather bad and the government also.


    Minister Shatter is telling us to ''get a life'' we are making a ''mountain out of a molehill'' perhaps he should pass this insightful information on to PH and tell him to pay his management fee.


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    #928
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    black francis wrote: »
    Nope, still not seeing it's relevance to the budget deficit.

    None at all? The fact that he even owns a fcuking penthouse apartment while stating that he was not in a position to take a pay cut is deplorable. His friend, the good Doctor James Reilly came out in his support today. Himself a man that avails of tax breaks to maintain his 13 bedroom mansion.

    But yeah, nothing is relevant to our budget deficit and economic situation.. nothing but this forsaken Household Charge at least :rolleyes:


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    #929
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    lividduck wrote: »
    it is obviously unfair, it applies only to owners and it takes no account of the size of the house or household or the assets or ability to pay of the owner. it's unfair , it's unjust, and it deserves to be challenged!

    It's 100 euro - less than will be applied to any payer in the tiered arrangement - and less than that hardy flat rate tax - the TV licence. It's no poll tax.


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    #930
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,756 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    MagicSean wrote: »
    Does it suit me? What does that even mean?

    I would think you would understand the difference between a legal charge and a private invoice. It's like the difference between a parking fine and a clampers fee. Do you think there is the same obligation to pay both? Be honest now.

    As to the article. She states that Phil Hogan said (not a quote mind you) that local council workers would be going to remind people of the charge, nothing about enforcement, like the Independent reported.



    The ESB have the actual locations though, that's how they can send their engineers.



    I'm not. I'm saying that a disputed private bill has no relevance to a statutory charge.

    It does not obviously suit your argument that the person who signed up for a charge is refusing to pay for it while the same man is trying to force others to pay up for something they didn't sign up for. The fact that this same man made ours a law is a further crime as it is an unjust law in the eyes of at least one million citizens of the country. If there was a Referendum on the Household Tax it would be defeated quite easily.


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    #931
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,756 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    alastair wrote: »
    That MILLION flew away a while ago. Time to move on.

    Oh no it didn't.


This discussion has been closed.
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