Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

tigger123

lugha wrote: »

FF were destroyed because the economy tanked, it had nothing to so with not listening to the people.

It is possible that the house hold charge will prove to be a seminal moment in the lifetime of this government but at this stage, I would have to say I doubt it.

My guess is that it may well turn out to be an issue like the NCT, or the smoking ban or the crackdown on drink driving, all issues that provoked a lot of anger at the time but were eventually widely accepted. None of those issues mattered at election time, despite the dark mutterings (similar to yours) that the people would bide their time and give FF a kicking in the election.

Unless FG go mad and reconvene the heavy gang or something to enforce this measure I think there will be very few for whom this will be an issue at the next election. (In part of course because there will be many, many more unpalatable things that we will have to endure that will upset us more )

It's an interesting point. I wonder if this anger will/can be maintained. The registration is approx 50% this year, so if only an additional 10% sign up every year, within 5 years you'll have an almost completely registered home-owning population.

dvpower

gerryo777 wrote: »

Spoken like a true Fine Gaeler.

You really don't have a clue do you.
No idea what the average joe soap thinks.
Just like phil, alan, enda & co.
Maybe if you listened once in a while you might learn something new!

You and your FG buddies on here better enjoy the next 4 or so years, one would think that after the last shower and the way they were destroyed in the last election for not listening to the people, lessons would be learned.

Absolutely no difference.

In the opinion polls FG are holding up brilliantly. The average joe put FG in power and want them to stay in power.

MagicSean

gerryo777 wrote: »

Would you call the auctioneering profession a vocal minority?

You know, phil's job on the side!

I'd say he made a few quid out of the 'boom', enough to buy a penthouse in Portugal perhaps?

So? Lots of people made money in the boom.

tayto lover

black francis wrote: »

The main logic employed by anti-household charge protesters is that someone else needs to pay for the mess.

That is not my logic at all.
I see this Tax as an attack on my home. A home that already caused me many struggles, sometimes working two jobs to pay my mortgage. I also paid a good amount of Stamp Duty.
They should have called it a "Service Tax" and also gave us the services to go with it. I have to pay my own bin charges to a company that the Council/Govt sold the job to. Could never understand why they did that. In other countries this is not the case as stated by many posters earlier as services are part of the contract and are very well provided.

I also have a problem with the same people being hit all the time. People on SW and in Council Houses should also pay a small amount of "Service Tax".

Its the Property bit that I have the problem with.
I won't pay a Property Tax on my home but would pay a "Service Tax" even with a struggle.
There are many who have the same problem as I have.

tayto lover

dvpower wrote: »

In the opinion polls FG are holding up brilliantly. The average joe put FG in power and want them to stay in power.

I have no problem with F.G. in power at all.
I do have a problem with the way they got there, lies, false promises and vote buying. I am also annoyed with the arrogance some of their Ministers are showing.

Cesium Clock

MagicSean wrote: »

So? Lots of people made money in the boom.

mainly speculators, propety gamblers, and unsecured bond holders.

gerryo777

MagicSean wrote: »

So? Lots of people made money in the boom.

Read that in context please or is that beyond you?

Frank Black

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Are you serious. 1.8 millon properties. 800,000 registered many exempt and the others a minority? This is wrong. Fact.

Now that may change by the end of the year but as it stands the people who paid are in the minority. Fact.

I don't really care about the numbers, once 15% compliance was achieved, the anti-household charge campaign was a dead duck.

I just like to bring up the figures because I know it annoys you guys, I guess being a tax-defaulter doesn't have the same moral authority when you're in the minority?

gerryo777

dvpower wrote: »

In the opinion polls FG are holding up brilliantly. The average joe put FG in power and want them to stay in power.

Coming from what we had in power, that really doesn't say a lot.
If anything it reflects the extremely sad state of politics and class of politician we have in this country.

gerryo777

black francis wrote: »

I don't really care about the numbers, once 15% compliance was achieved, the anti-household charge campaign was a dead duck.

I just like to bring up the figures because I know it annoys you guys, I guess being a tax-defaulter doesn't have the same moral authority when you're in the minority?

No reply to 1290 then frannie?

dvpower

gerryo777 wrote: »

Coming from what we had in power, that really doesn't say a lot.
If anything it reflects the extremely sad state of politics and class of politician we have in this country.

It says that the people looked at the choices on offer and decided that FG/LAB were the best of the bunch.
But you are right - there was no other credible choice and I don't see any new credible choices emerging.

tayto lover

hondasam wrote: »

You think PS workers do not work hard? we all agree those in the middle and at the top are over paid but the ones at the bottom who actually do work are the ones suffering the most.
PS workers at the bottom cannot afford to take any more cuts in wages or allowances.

Again I agree. I know a good many nurses and firemen who are struggling at the moment. I heard a Garda Union man saying the same thing on the radio too. The cuts should be at the top and there seems to be far too many administrators in the PS.

Frank Black

gerryo777 wrote: »

No reply to 1290 then frannie?

Presumed you were phrasing it rhetorically as opposed to actually looking for an answer.

Auctioneers? Not sure what they had to be vocal about, I'm sure they were quite happy with the bubble while it lasted.

gerryo777

black francis wrote: »

Presumed you were phrasing it rhetorically as opposed to actually looking for an answer.

Auctioneers? Not sure what they had to be vocal about, I'm sure they were quite happy with the bubble while it lasted.

deflection

Frank Black

gerryo777 wrote: »

deflection

Maybe I'll get banned for not answering the question properly now?

MagicSean

tayto lover wrote: »

Again I agree. I know a good many nurses and firemen who are struggling at the moment. I heard a Garda Union man saying the same thing on the radio too. The cuts should be at the top and there seems to be far too many administrators in the PS.

I met a teacher who has a bed, fridge and laptop set up in his van because he can't afford the diesel to travel home to his family each night. I think he goes to the gym in the mornings to shower and shave.

hondasam

tayto lover wrote: »

Again I agree. I know a good many nurses and firemen who are struggling at the moment. I heard a Garda Union man saying the same thing on the radio too. The cuts should be at the top and there seems to be far too many administrators in the PS.

MagicSean wrote: »

I met a teacher who has a bed, fridge and laptop set up in his van because he can't afford the diesel to travel home to his family each night. I think he goes to the gym in the mornings to shower and shave.

This problem is going to get worse, lots of people can barely afford to go to work these days. Of course we get the usual sure aren't you lucky to have a job, depends in what you call lucky imo.

Izzy Skint

I'm back...thanks Mickey Dolenz!!

Judging by the way the numbers who registered increased in the final few days before the deadline, I can only assume that most of these people did not want to register and was done begrudgingly. Another factor was the fear instilled in people due to the threats coming over the airwaves from our politicians ( they are our employees, we pay their wages, how dare they threaten the Irish people!!!)....anyway my point is that if this registration was for €500 or €1,000 instead of €100, I wonder what % would have registered ?......and that is exactly what they will be paying next year or even the year after...and it could be more!....so start saving folks, after all it's only €20 per week!!!!....oh sorry I meant €2 per week!!

slightly off topic....some friends of mine were staying in Dublin over the weekend. They were in a pub (sorry don't know the name) on Saturday night, close to the FG ard fheis. The pub filled up with FG'ers after the ard fheis was over. He told me it was disgusting the way these supporters/members of FG laughed and joked about the whole charge issue, one of the jokes involved one of them looking at their watch and saying to his group " they'd better hurry up and pay, they have only 5 minutes left !" ....a great laugh eh?....my friend told me this went on for ages, he said he was disgusted with the carry on and merriment all at our expense!....he said he wanted to tackle them on the matter but decided not to.....and he is one of those who paid the charge....I bet he is sorry now!!

finally, I was driving home at lunchtime on Sunday listening to radio 1, there was a report on the FG meeting on Sat night where they interviewed protestors and then FG members who were attending....all I can say is I was like an anti-christ listening to those FG members, talking about the whole issue in a condescending, arrogant carefree manner.....it made my blood boil!!!...if only I was next to one of them....who the f*ck do they think they are?...do they not know that people may have principles?, that people have a right to protest?, that people may even have a reason for protesting?....did that ever even cross their tiny minds?....do they realise people are in serious difficulties?....

finally, I am NOT a member OR supporter of any political group....personally I think they are all equally good at corruption, telling lies and ruining our country...

MagicSean

Izzy Skint wrote: »

I'm back...thanks Mickey Dolenz!!

Judging by the way the numbers who registered increased in the final few days before the deadline, I can only assume that most of these people did not want to register and was done begrudgingly. Another factor was the fear instilled in people due to the threats coming over the airwaves from our politicians ( they are our employees, we pay their wages, how dare they threaten the Irish people!!!)....anyway my point is that if this registration was for €500 or €1,000 instead of €100, I wonder what % would have registered ?......and that is exactly what they will be paying next year or even the year after...and it could be more!....so start saving folks, after all it's only €20 per week!!!!....oh sorry I meant €2 per week!!

slightly off topic....some friends of mine were staying in Dublin over the weekend. They were in a pub (sorry don't know the name) on Saturday night, close to the FG ard fheis. The pub filled up with FG'ers after the ard fheis was over. He told me it was disgusting the way these supporters/members of FG laughed and joked about the whole charge issue, one of the jokes involved one of them looking at their watch and saying to his group " they'd better hurry up and pay, they have only 5 minutes left !" ....a great laugh eh?....my friend told me this went on for ages, he said he was disgusted with the carry on and merriment all at our expense!....he said he wanted to tackle them on the matter but decided not to.....and he is one of those who paid the charge....I bet he is sorry now!!

finally, I was driving home at lunchtime on Sunday listening to radio 1, there was a report on the FG meeting on Sat night where they interviewed protestors and then FG members who were attending....all I can say is I was like an anti-christ listening to those FG members, talking about the whole issue in a condescending, arrogant carefree manner.....it made my blood boil!!!...if only I was next to one of them....who the f*ck do they think they are?...do they not know that people may have principles?, that people have a right to protest?, that people may even have a reason for protesting?....did that ever even cross their tiny minds?....do they realise people are in serious difficulties?....

finally, I am NOT a member OR supporter of any political group....personally I think they are all equally good at corruption, telling lies and ruining our country...

On the bank holiday monday i was listening to some people talking about how they couldn't afford to pay. They were in a beer garden, drinking pints. i didn't believe them. There were people on both sides who just latched on and didn't understand what was actually happening.

Hijpo

http://www.fairocracy.com/facts_and_figures/current_cost_of_ex_tds_and_ministers_yearly_pensions_in_ireland.html

Do they NEED that much money??

Ghandee

MagicSean wrote: »

On the bank holiday monday i was listening to some people talking about how they couldn't afford to pay. They were in a beer garden, drinking pints. i didn't believe them. There were people on both sides who just latched on and didn't understand what was actually happening.

What does it matter that they where in a beer garden drinking beer for?

Your not going to be one of these posters that believe's every last penny made should be going to govt coffers, and not on a little (bank holiday) treat are you?

Besides, these guys were probably thinking like the majority of the other people who couldn't/wouldn't pay, because they honestly don't know if they could afford it in the future!


What has prevented the govt presenting a future plan, on how this tax will rise in the future, to how much per year, and what services would be provided for paying up. (or at least give assurances that it wouldn't be going up for x number of years) why do you think this was?

Do you sign up to many contracts Sean, without knowing what your signing up for, how much it will cost you, and what you will be getting for your money?

I'm still in shock that so many of the posters on here think this an acceptable way of doing business tbh.

gerryo777

black francis wrote: »

Maybe I'll get banned for not answering the question properly now?

Yea, the pro-tax side is noted for not answering questions.
Like I told DV, you would all make great politicians.
Don't take that as a compliment.

Steven81

MagicSean wrote: »

I met a teacher who has a bed, fridge and laptop set up in his van because he can't afford the diesel to travel home to his family each night. I think he goes to the gym in the mornings to shower and shave.

He can afford gym membership.

With the price of petrol/ diesel going the way it is the government are only getting more and more money. Take in the 2% vat increase that has put up our grocery bills then our few euros left at the end of the week is less and less.

tayto lover

MagicSean wrote: »

On the bank holiday monday i was listening to some people talking about how they couldn't afford to pay. They were in a beer garden, drinking pints. i didn't believe them. There were people on both sides who just latched on and didn't understand what was actually happening.

I could afford 100e too but on Sat last I choose to go out and buy Easter Eggs for my grandkids. I spent about 80e.
For that I managed to -
1. Feel happy doing it.
2. Make my grandkids happy (when they get them).
3. Help keep that particular shop busy and make a few euro.
4. Help pay the wages of the assistant.
5. Pay V.A.T. towards the Govt.

Had I paid the Household Tax with that money I would probably have done the following -
1. Made some German bondholder happy.

I still think my choice was right.

MagicSean

Steven81 wrote: »

He can afford gym membership.

With the price of petrol/ diesel going the way it is the government are only getting more and more money. Take in the 2% vat increase that has put up our grocery bills then our few euros left at the end of the week is less and less.

Gym membership is about €199 per year which is about €16 per month. His diesel would cost him about €200 a month. I'll do you a chart if you have difficulty understanding it.

tayto lover wrote: »

I could afford 100e too but on Sat last I choose to go out and buy Easter Eggs for my grandkids. I spent about 80e.
For that I managed to -
1. Feel happy doing it.
2. Make my grandkids happy (when they get them).
3. Help keep that particular shop busy and make a few euro.
4. Help pay the wages of the assistant.
5. Pay V.A.T. towards the Govt.

Had I paid the Household Tax with that money I would probably have done the following -
1. Made some German bondholder happy.

I still think my choice was right.

€25 every 3 months won't interfere very much with your life. You'll only end up losing out in the long run by not paying it.

tayto lover

MagicSean wrote: »

Gym membership is about €199 per year which is about €16 per month. His diesel would cost him about €200 a month. I'll do you a chart if you have difficulty understanding it.



€25 every 3 months won't interfere very much with your life. You'll only end up losing out in the long run by not paying it.

I am afraid I am fairly stubborn in that regard. As I said earlier I have serious misgivings about it being a Property Tax. I feel I did very well to pay for my house over a long period of struggle. To be punished for achievement does not sit right with me.
Now if they had only called it a Service Tax and provided those services I would have no problem with it but I know in my heart and soul that there will be little or no services provided for this Property Tax when it comes in.

Izzy Skint

Hijpo wrote: »

http://www.fairocracy.com/facts_and_figures/current_cost_of_ex_tds_and_ministers_yearly_pensions_in_ireland.html

Do they NEED that much money??

totally agree, and this is only the tip of the iceberg, as i have always said there is plenty of fat left to be cut from government spending. The spending should be brought back to the pre-boom years, that is exactly what they have done to tax payers and they are not finished with us yet!!....it's simple really, cut your spending drastically and the deficit will disappear, this will never happen of course and is the reason why I see a very bleak future for this country.....carry on FG / Lab, protect the "most vulnerable", pander to the unions, let the guilty off scott free, keep Europe happy and squeeze the life out of the heart of this country.....let's see how long we can last?

Bishop_Donal

For God's sake, Is anyone watching the Frontline?

Labour are a complete joke, running with the hare and hunting with the hounds!!

It makes me laugh when I hear the empathy from fella's like Kevin Humphries. What a joke. Not withstanding the ideological difference I have with the No campaign, at the least the people who stand up and say 'Don't Register, Don't Pay' warrant more respect than that clown.

Labour really shafted the people who voted them in. Bring back FF!!!!!!

bgrizzley

im having trouble finding time to keep up with the thread (still back at page 40), but i just wanted to say to all the Anti "Bondholder Tax" people.

Congratz guys!!!!:D

this tax has failed in my eyes, the gubbernment looks bad, Phil "the threat" Hogan looks worse.
to the guys who say "its here to stay" there is a long road there yet and Fine Fail Gael have proven they couldnt organise a p1ss up in a brewery, roll on the next fcukup!!!!:P

jluv

Pat Kenny is talking about this now and Phil Hogans latest statement is that whatever LA had the biggest percentage of compliance will get the bigger portion of the money collected. We're finding out the rules as we go along. If they don't know how many homes are required to pay in the country as a whole I find it unlikely that they can fairly decide the braekdown of funds in this way. So for some compliant people who paid their €100 they may see no return for it..