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Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

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    #1562
    blowtorch
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭blowtorch


    alastair wrote: »
    The money does go to the local authorities. 100% of it. That's the simple reality. Local Authority funding is massively down on the back of the economy - and this isn't going to change that fact, but it's certainly going to be used 100% by the councils.

    What 'dishonesty' are you on about? Put up or shut up.

    http://www.ipav.ie/documents/Industry/IPAV_holds_meeting_with_Minister_Hogan.pdf where Phil Hogan said that it is likely that the Household Charge will 'go to the Exchequer rather than to the local authorities'

    On another note - Wexford People Newspapers today. - Only one third paid the Household Charge. That probably equates to 50%+ in Phil Hogan's mind!


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    #1563
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Sionach wrote: »
    Again what services are provided for rural people. We have our own wells septic tanks or treatment centers,no footpaths,street lighting or tarmacadam roads.
    What do would we be gaining from this.

    You do have roads, leading to bigger roads, street lighting, pavements in your local towns, etc, yeah? It's not Mars you're living on, is it?


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    #1564
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,823 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    zerks wrote: »
    Wow Alastair,you really are amazing in your delusion,now claiming the fund that this charge goes to is ringfenced for LA's,how much will have to go to bondholders for you to open your eyes and see it for the bait & switch that it really is.

    and even if it is all kept for LA's do you think that the small communities who pay there household tax will recieve there fair share?

    not at all, it will all go to paying for infrastucture in the big cities that already have what they need with smaller areas being at the bottom of the list.

    If its for LA's id rather pay it to my LA instead of it all going into the governments big pot


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    #1565
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    blowtorch wrote: »
    http://www.ipav.ie/documents/Industry/IPAV_holds_meeting_with_Minister_Hogan.pdf where Phil Hogan said that it is likely that the Household Charge will 'go to the Exchequer rather than to the local authorities'

    The actual law of the land as of 19 December 2011:
    3.—(1) In the year 2012 and in each subsequent year thereafter,
    each person who, on the liability date of the year concerned, is the
    owner of a residential property shall, subject to this Act, pay to the
    relevant local authority the sum (in this Act referred to as a “household
    charge”) specified in accordance with this section.
    (2) The sum specified in accordance with this section shall be—
    (a) €100, or
    (b) where a sum stands prescribed for the time being under
    subsection (3), that sum.


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    #1566
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Hijpo wrote: »
    and even if it is all kept for LA's do you think that the small communities who pay there household tax will recieve there fair share?

    not at all, it will all go to paying for infrastucture in the big cities that already have what they need with smaller areas being at the bottom of the list.

    You think?


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    #1567
    blowtorch
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭blowtorch


    alastair wrote: »
    You do have roads, leading to bigger roads, street lighting, pavements in your local towns, etc, yeah? It's not Mars you're living on, is it?

    Although we do pay Road Tax (should cover the 'little' and not so little roads), and Road Tolls, for the bigger roads (which would come under the NRA and not the LA anyway). When in 'town' we pay Parking Fees to the LA that go to the general expenditure area (Lighting etc.) - in effect we are charged for the honour of going to town. Businesses pay rates to the LA - pavements included I'd think. We pay private companies for refuse Collection, and the LA charge these private companies for the use of landfills.


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    #1568
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    blowtorch wrote: »
    Although we do pay Road Tax (should cover the 'little' and not so little roads.

    You pay road tax? Never heard of it.


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    #1569
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    alastair wrote: »
    Educate yourself. 100% goes to the local authorities. It's the law, as defined by the household charge act.

    100% will go to the LA's but there will most likely be an equivalent cut in some other portion of the LGF, this is what apparently happened with the NPPR so would expect the same again


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    #1570
    Cantona's Collars
    Registered Users Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    Grandiose projects count as money well spent: An example,a local estate consisiting of council houses/affordable houses had a problem with teenagers from a nearby estate and asked for a wall to be built,the answer was that "they couldn't afford it". Locals wanted to plant flower beds and asked for some materials,less than €100 would have covered it as the residents were prepared to provide the plants themselves,same answer: "no money".A while later a monstrosity of a sculpture costing €30,000 was erected and is now covered in graffiti and overgrown.The ones that put it there don't even maintain the area around it.The locals won't either as they didn't want the bloody thing.

    If I lived there I know what I'd prefer.But I'm sure Alastair would deem that €30k money well spent.


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    #1571
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,823 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    alastair wrote: »
    You think?

    I didnt mention rural anywhere in my post


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    #1572
    Daniel S
    Registered Users Posts: 3,532 ✭✭✭Daniel S


    blowtorch wrote: »
    Although we do pay Road Tax (should cover the 'little' and not so little roads), and Road Tolls, for the bigger roads (which would come under the NRA and not the LA anyway). When in 'town' we pay Parking Fees to the LA that go to the general expenditure area (Lighting etc.) - in effect we are charged for the honour of going to town. Businesses pay rates to the LA - pavements included I'd think. We pay private companies for refuse Collection, and the LA charge these private companies for the use of landfills.
    So god damn sick of people saying this. Just think about it for two seconds....

    Why would road tax relate to the type and size of your engine?


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    #1573
    Cesium Clock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 350 ✭✭Cesium Clock


    alastair wrote: »
    The actual law of the land as of 19 December 2011:

    3.—(1) In the year 2012 and in each subsequent year thereafter,
    each person who, on the liability date of the year concerned, is the
    owner of a residential property shall, subject to this Act, pay to the
    relevant local authority the sum (in this Act referred to as a “household
    charge”) specified in accordance with this section.

    why is it not being paid to the relevant local authority, i.e. where the payee lives.

    instead it is being paid into a central gov pot and divied up (alledgelly)


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    #1574
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Hijpo wrote: »
    I didnt mention rural anywhere in my post

    Small communities that aren't in the big cities? Seems pretty rural to me.


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    #1575
    blowtorch
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭blowtorch


    alastair wrote: »
    The actual law of the land as of 19 December 2011:

    But ......... householdcharge.ie is not a Local Authority. Why then, if they are payable to a LA, would payment be made out to 'Household Charge'

    '12.—(1) All household charges, late payment fees and late payment
    interest payable to a local authority pursuant to this Act are
    placed under the care and management of the local authority
    concerned.

    (2) It is a function of each local authority to collect household
    charges, late payment fees and late payment interest due to it under
    this Act and to deal with matters associated with such collection.'


    If it a function of each LA to 'collect' household charges.


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    #1576
    blowtorch
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭blowtorch


    Daniel S wrote: »
    So god damn sick of people saying this. Just think about it for two seconds....

    Why would road tax relate to the type and size of your engine?

    Type of tax based on a notion of on the 'ability to pay more' I suppose. Might also ask the question as to why a 2006 1.9 Diesel car with the same emissions of a 2010 1.9 Diesel car pays more Road Tax. Discrimination?


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    #1577
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    blowtorch wrote: »
    But ......... householdcharge.ie is not a Local Authority. Why then, if they are payable to a LA, would payment be made out to 'Household Charge'

    '12.—(1) All household charges, late payment fees and late payment
    interest payable to a local authority pursuant to this Act are
    placed under the care and management of the local authority
    concerned.

    (2) It is a function of each local authority to collect household
    charges, late payment fees and late payment interest due to it under
    this Act and to deal with matters associated with such collection.'


    If it a function of each LA to 'collect' household charges.

    Rubbish:
    12.—(1) All household charges, late payment fees and late payment
    interest payable to a local authority pursuant to this Act are
    placed under the care and management of the local authority concerned.


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    #1578
    blowtorch
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭blowtorch


    alastair wrote: »
    You pay road tax? Never heard of it.

    http://www.vrt.ie/roadtax.php - Also called Motor Tax. Next question?


  • Options
    #1579
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    blowtorch wrote: »
    Type of tax based on a notion of on the 'ability to pay more' I suppose. Might also ask the question as to why a 2006 1.9 Diesel car with the same emissions of a 2010 1.9 Diesel car pays more Road Tax. Discrimination?

    There's no such thing as road tax.


  • Options
    #1580
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    blowtorch wrote: »
    http://www.vrt.ie/roadtax.php - Also called Motor Tax. Next question?
    Vrt.ie is an independant website
    I can put up a website stating that pixie tax currently is applied at 10%. It wouldn't be accurate info either.


  • Options
    #1581
    blowtorch
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭blowtorch


    alastair wrote: »
    Rubbish:

    ' payable to a local authority pursuant to this Act' Oh - did I mis-understand - is Rubbish also included in the services that the LA's will now provide?


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    #1582
    blowtorch
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭blowtorch


    alastair wrote: »
    I can put up a website stating that pixie tax currently is applied at 10%. It wouldn't be accurate info either.

    OK - try the Department of the Environment - http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/MotorTaxRates/


  • Options
    #1583
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    blowtorch wrote: »
    ' payable to a local authority pursuant to this Act' Oh - did I mis-understand - is Rubbish also included in the services that the LA's will now provide?

    Nope - the rubbish is the delusion that the charge isn't going 100% to local authorities - as defined by law.


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    #1584
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    blowtorch wrote: »
    OK - try the Department of the Environment - http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/MotorTaxRates/

    I see nothing about a road tax there.


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    #1585
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,823 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    alastair wrote: »
    Small communities that aren't in the big cities? Seems pretty rural to me.

    youd think it being from dublin, anything outside of it is rural


  • Options
    #1586
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    alastair wrote: »
    ...but obviously one that doesn't reflect the actual national position.

    My better half met an OAP on the luas the other day, who had paid the charge, but told her mates that she hadn't, because she was worried about what they would think. Makes you wonder about the 'scaremongering' accusations being thrown about.

    Welcome back Alastair. Were you MIA? You still haven't answered those questions (par for the course with you though):

    1. Do you think it is fair that 400m is being borrowed weekly to prop up CS/PS wages & "entitlements"?

    2. Do you think it is fair that 160,000 households which can well afford the "household charge" are exempt from it?

    3. Do you think it is right to keep paying ludicrously high rates to SW recipients?

    4. Do you think it is fair to keep paying ludicrously high rates to HSE "contractors"?

    5. Do you think it is fair that the other 1.5m workers foot the bill for these gravy trains?

    Now, do be polite and try to give an honest answer. For once.:)


  • Options
    #1587
    blowtorch
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭blowtorch


    alastair wrote: »
    I see nothing about a road tax there.

    I bow to your superior knoweledge.. Just to backtrack then - as regards the little and not so little roads - I pay Motor tax, not a road tax. Go on......


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    #1588
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Hijpo wrote: »
    youd think it being from dublin, anything outside of it is rural

    I grew up in a rural area - in Dublin.


  • Options
    #1589
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    alastair wrote: »
    Nope - the rubbish is the delusion that the charge isn't going 100% to local authorities - as defined by law.

    Bollocks.The dogs in the street know where it is going. A local councillor confirmed it on radio down here last week. But, you keep deluding yourself and trying to spin it otherwise. God loves a trier.........:rolleyes:


  • Options
    #1590
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    blowtorch wrote: »
    I bow to your superior knoweledge.. Just to backtrack then - as regards the little and not so little roads - I pay Motor tax, not a road tax. Go on......

    Motor tax is not ringfenced for roads. It's not ringfenced for anything - it just goes into the main revenue pot.


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    #1591
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    Bollocks.The dogs in the street know where it is going. A local councillor confirmed it on radio down here last week. But, you keep deluding yourself and trying to spin it otherwise. God loves a trier.........:rolleyes:

    Both the dogs and your local councillor have it wrong - or maybe you misunderstood them. Come back with any evidence that the law isn't being applied as enacted and I'll hear you out. Otherwise, I'm not really interested in dogs etc.


This discussion has been closed.
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