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Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

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    #1712
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Phill Ewinn wrote: »
    Ah, shure who'd have known? Phil has meeting with Lowry. Two of them laughing their heads off at us. Pay this, pay that, pay the other. Yeah, reckon Phils a real scream.

    They should be in business together, if they're not already...........

    Amazing how mute the "Labour" party are on this (Joan Burton excluded). If they were in coalition with FF they would be (rightfully) screaming for his head on a plate.

    The rules seem to change when in coalition with FG. And Happy Gilmore nowhere to be seen again.:rolleyes:


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    #1713
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    Well, Alastair, you're nothing if consistent. Dodging again. Your No. 5 comment smacks of Government arrogance, much as you deny it. given that the word "fair and equitable" are being bandied about in relation to the "household charge", I repeat the questions to you again:

    1. Do you think it is fair that 400m is being borrowed weekly to prop up CS/PS wages & "entitlements"?

    2. Do you think it is fair that 160,000 households which can well afford the "household charge" are exempt from it?

    3. Do you think it is right to keep paying ludicrously high rates to SW recipients?

    4. Do you think it is fair to keep paying ludicrously high rates to HSE "contractors"?

    5. Do you think it is fair that the other 1.5m workers foot the bill for these gravy trains?

    If it is a property tax, why is it not called that? Simple question.
    Now, a simple yes or no to each question if you will. Without any of the childish comments, given the number of people on the breadline who are affected by this.

    I'm not sure where you missed my clear answers to the questions. Try reading them again. The big hint: I don't agree with you, and believe you're talking through your hat. I'm not impressed with sticking scare quotes around words, and the HSE has nothing to do with the household charge - now stick that on your gravy train and roll on down the line.

    It doesn't matter if it called a charge, a tax, or a levy - it's a state levied tax. It all amounts to one and the same thing. Maybe they liked the way it rolls of the tongue? I really don't care, and nor should you. Did you have the same problem with the USC?


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    #1714
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    And Happy Gilmore nowhere to be seen again.:rolleyes:

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0328/26-have-now-paid-household-charge.html


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    #1715
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    alastair wrote: »

    It doesn't matter if it called a charge, a tax, or a levy - it's a state levied tax. It all amounts to one and the same thing. Maybe they liked the way it rolls of the tongue? I really don't care, and nor should you.

    Just like the poll tax, eh.........


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    #1716
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    mikom wrote: »
    Just like the poll tax, eh.........

    Exactly. Community Charge = Poll Tax.


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    #1717
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,758 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    It was disclosed on the Pat Kenny show this morning that "many" people paid the HHC for owning more than 50 houses. In one case one person paid for 190 houses ???? Unbelievable !!!
    Not only does this throw doubt on the actual number who have paid, because if one person admits to owning 190 homes and many owned 50, then there may be more people refusing to pay than actually paying. It also shows that there are people in this country who really creamed it during the so-called Celtic Tiger era but the people who are struggling now are those with the one house, the one they are living in and struggling to keep.


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    #1718
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users Posts: 19,219 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    tayto lover wrote: »
    It was disclosed on the Pat Kenny show this morning that "many" people paid the HHC for owning more than 50 houses. In one case one person paid for 190 houses ???? Unbelievable !!!
    Not only does this throw doubt on the actual number who have paid, because if one person admits to owning 190 homes and many owned 50, then there may be more people refusing to pay than actually paying. It also shows that there are people in this country who really creamed it during the so-called Celtic Tiger era but the people who are struggling now are those with the one house, the one they are living in and struggling to keep.

    190 houses???? :eek:

    And here was me taunting the brother for paying for the 3 houses he owns - his non-rent 'tenants' being our separated elderly parents and his own holiday home. If he hadn't paid there was little they could do, he doesn't work, live or earn in income in Ireland. Eejit for paying IMHO but somehow he got it into his head that if he didn't pay they would deduct the charge from my parents pensions.


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    #1719
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Not only does this throw doubt on the actual number who have paid, because if one person admits to owning 190 homes and many owned 50, then there may be more people refusing to pay than actually paying.

    Given that the numbers have always been about households rather than owners, I'm not sure how you figure this - there equally could be multiple house owners who haven't paid. How you turn 'single digit numbers' of owners of 50 or more properties into 'many' is a bit of a mystery too.
    Local Government Management Agency chief executive Paul McSweeney told RTE’s Today with Pat Kenny that “a single digit number of forms” are from people with 50 homes are more.
    A total of 886,000 households had registered to pay the controversial €100 flat charge by close of business yesterday.


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    #1720
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,758 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    alastair wrote: »
    Given that the numbers have always been about households rather than owners, I'm not sure how you figure this - there equally could be multiple house owners who haven't paid. How you turn 'single digit numbers' of owners of 50 or more properties into 'many' is a bit of a mystery too.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0405/breaking34.html

    A "single digit number opened on a daily basis"
    Alastair you will note the above. How many days have they been opening these now ? I would say some are from well before last Sat's deadline too.


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    #1721
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tayto lover wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0405/breaking34.html

    A "single digit number opened on a daily basis"
    Alastair you will note the above. How many days have they been opening these now ? I would say some are from well before last Sat's deadline too.

    Ahh - the Indo reported it as a total of a single digit figure. That's kind of surprising alright.


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    #1722
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    alastair wrote: »
    I'm not sure where you missed my clear answers to the questions. Try reading them again. The big hint: I don't agree with you, and believe you're talking through your hat. I'm not impressed with sticking scare quotes around words, and the HSE has nothing to do with the household charge - now stick that on your gravy train and roll on down the line.

    It doesn't matter if it called a charge, a tax, or a levy - it's a state levied tax. It all amounts to one and the same thing. Maybe they liked the way it rolls of the tongue? I really don't care, and nor should you. Did you have the same problem with the USC?

    You see, if anyone's talking out of their hat it is you. A state levied tax should be across the board, encompassing all households, given that it's a......"household" charge.

    You have evaded, once again, the question of fairness and equity, which would indicate that, in your own heart & soul, you do indeed see it as unfair. Does everyone have a problem with paying tax? If we're all honest, the answer is yes.

    Do we have to pay tax in order to run the country? Unfortunately, yes. But within reason.

    And certainly not to bail out failed, bankrupt, banking entities. In a week when we've seen the ugly scandal of bankers and consultants pay rear its head once again, it is truly incredible that people like you seek to defend such a "household charge".

    But, given your earlier comments, you are no different to the callous people currently holding office.


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    #1723
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    alastair wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0328/26-have-now-paid-household-charge.html

    He was a daily apparition on news bulletins when in opposition. The link you posted is from March 29th. And he hasn't even commented on the Hogan situation. But, if I were in your shoes, I'd probably clutch at straws too.:rolleyes:


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    #1724
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    You see, if anyone's talking out of their hat it is you. A state levied tax should be across the board, encompassing all households, given that it's a......"household" charge.

    Just like Motor Tax is.

    Oh wait...

    1. It's not across the board. Only car owners pay.

    and

    2. It's not applicable to all 'motors'.


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    #1725
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    But, given your earlier comments, you are no different to the callous people currently holding office.

    It's awful, isn't it!


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    #1726
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    alastair wrote: »
    Just like Motor Tax is.

    Oh wait...

    1. It's not across the board. Only car owners pay.

    and

    2. It's not applicable to all 'motors'.

    Bollocks Alastair - and you know it. Are 160,000 cars exempt from the tax?


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    #1727
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    He was a daily apparition on news bulletins when in opposition. The link you posted is from March 29th. And he hasn't even commented on the Hogan situation. But, if I were in your shoes, I'd probably clutch at straws too.:rolleyes:

    Phew - all the way back in the good old days of the 29th eh? I remember those days...

    Why would he be commenting on Hogan?


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    #1728
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    Bollocks Alastair - and you know it. Are 160,000 cars exempt from the tax?

    All non-motorists are - I'd say that's more than 160,000.


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    #1729
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    alastair wrote: »
    All non-motorists are - I'd say that's more than 160,000.

    You have some obsession with the motor tax comparison.


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    #1730
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    Freddie59 wrote: »

    3. Do you think it is right to keep paying ludicrously high rates to SW recipients?
    .

    What would you consider a fair level for basic unemployment benefit?


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    #1731
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    I was thinking about Alastairs stand against the Poll Tax i was wondering just how many people had stood with him and i came across this article

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/august/14/newsid_2495000/2495911.stm

    according to this report in august 1990, 80% people had paid it, and it still failed.
    I wonder how a 50%(ish) scenario will fare out here...........


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    #1732
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    I was thinking about Alastairs stand against the Poll Tax i was wondering just how many people had stood with him and i came across this article

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/august/14/newsid_2495000/2495911.stm

    according to this report in august 1990, 80% people had paid it, and it still failed.
    I wonder how a 50%(ish) scenario will fare out here...........

    Even if a good percentage of people pay this €100 this year, what about when people are worse off in a couple of years, and its €500 or higher?


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    #1733
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    black francis wrote: »
    What would you consider a fair level for basic unemployment benefit?
    in fairness, Francis, i think you should answer the question freddie posed before you him ask another.


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    #1734
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    Even if a good percentage of people pay this €100 this year, what about when people are worse off in a couple of years, and its €500 or higher?

    i dont think any TD understands the pressure we are all under. E500 is small change to them, not to mind E100


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    #1735
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    i dont think any TD understands the pressure we are all under. E500 is small change to them, not to mind E100

    Yea they are just too far removed. I dont believe any of them see anything but their own financial gains.


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    #1736
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    I was thinking about Alastairs stand against the Poll Tax i was wondering just how many people had stood with him and i came across this article

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/august/14/newsid_2495000/2495911.stm

    according to this report in august 1990, 80% people had paid it, and it still failed.
    I wonder how a 50%(ish) scenario will fare out here...........
    Do you think the Household Charge is going to fail? And, if so, how and when do you expect this to happen?


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    #1737
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    You have some obsession with the motor tax comparison.

    Alastair just has a lot of obsession's!


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    #1738
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    BTW alastair, regarding your previous post about edna's old mobile phone being 'an old gold coloured nokia', would you like to tell the people here the truth, seeing that your so close to him?

    I know the director of the company that supply's mobile phones to the government.

    Edna's old nokia is the phone that he has had for years, TRUE.

    Edna's new phone, paid for by the taxpayer is a state of the art blackberry!

    I can verify this if anyone is interested, but I just want to show that the the bull**** from the pro-tax brigade is just that.

    Looking after their own interests is their main objective.


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    #1739
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    I was thinking about Alastairs stand against the Poll Tax i was wondering just how many people had stood with him and i came across this article

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/august/14/newsid_2495000/2495911.stm

    according to this report in august 1990, 80% people had paid it, and it still failed.
    I wonder how a 50%(ish) scenario will fare out here...........

    This is alastair, the UK tax cheat we're talking about?


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    #1740
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    alastair wrote: »
    Phew - all the way back in the good old days of the 29th eh? I remember those days...

    Why would he be commenting on Hogan?

    Honestly, Alastair, if you need that one explained then you are a lost cause.:rolleyes:


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    #1741
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    alastair wrote: »
    All non-motorists are - I'd say that's more than 160,000.

    And are all those provided with a car free gratis by the State?:rolleyes:


This discussion has been closed.
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