Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

Freddie59

black francis wrote: »

What would you consider a fair level for basic unemployment benefit?

One that equates with the country's ability to pay. You know - like in a normal household or private company. For example, if a child was being provided with, let's say, €30 pocket money while his/her Mam/Dad were in full employment do you think they'd be provided with the same level of pocket money if the parents income was dramatically reduced? If they continued to pay the €30 how long do you think THAT would go on for?

See where this is going? Cut your cloth and behave responsibly. And don't continue to pay out as if you have a budget surplus each year. not too much to ask really.

Freddie59

alastair wrote: »

It's awful, isn't it!

Just another example of how completely out of touch you are. Keep it up. You're just proving what you are.

Freddie59

robbie7730 wrote: »

Yea they are just too far removed. I dont believe any of them see anything but their own financial gains.

This is the core of the problem. They get in - regardless of who they represent - feather their own nests, retire with early pensions and huge lump sums, and then want everyone else to work until they're 68.

The whole top end needs turning on its head. I though the Troika might have forced the issue, but they didn't. As long as the Leinster House CS/PS gravy train continues nothing will change. Sadly.

dxhound2005

The CEO of the LGMA was on with Pat Kenny 5th April giving updated figures for how many paid by 4th April. It is not definitive and he describes his estimates as conservative but I think we can take them as roughly correct for the number who complied before the deadline. It is 886,000 including 14000 waivers. On the original base which people were working on 1.6 million this is about 55% not far off the 58% I predicted. The census figures mean that the 1.6 million is out of date but there is no definitive number agreed that I know of. However I think that 886,000 would be over 50%. There was a late surge as expected moving the figures from around 15% in the last two weeks so I think we can expect to see another surge at the next deadline in 6 months and I predict by year end about 75% will have paid.

In the meantime for every 1000 that pay late at €111 that will make up for 110 who do not pay. And it looks like the exercise will identify some owners of multiple properties who did not pay their NPPR and at this stage owe €2040 instead of having paid €800.

Item is at 3.20 going on for 8 minutes. Fairly soft interview by Pat I thought, maybe the boys in RTE realise that if people think they can get away with breaking the law then the licence fee would be in danger.

http://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=9%3A3248945%3A133%3A05%2D04%2D2012%3A

bgrizzley

dvpower wrote: »

Do you think the Household Charge is going to fail? And, if so, how and when do you expect this to happen?

IMO, it has failed DV, 50%(ish) non compliance is a disaster. only choice for the government now is to try and get out of this gracefully before the edges get blurred between this issue and the fiscal compact referendum and they manage to lose that too (which i think could spell the end for them).

bgrizzley

gerryo777 wrote: »

This is alastair, the UK tax cheat we're talking about?

to give him his dues, he did take a stand against an unfair tax...............:)

noddyone2

jonon9 wrote: »

What if this charge is dropped in the end what about all the people that paid the 100 euros do they get there money back?

Hopefully not, they should be proud of having done their patriotic duty, he he

dxhound2005

noddyone2 wrote: »

Hopefully not, they should be proud of having done their patriotic duty, he he

If you own a house you will finish up paying more than they did. I don't see any sign of the law being abolished.

Bruthal

bgrizzley wrote: »

to give him his dues, he did take a stand against an unfair tax...............:)

Yes, but your forgetting, he has decided this one is not unfair. So thats that.

dvpower

bgrizzley wrote: »

IMO, it has failed DV, 50%(ish) non compliance is a disaster. only choice for the government now is to try and get out of this gracefully before the edges get blurred between this issue and the fiscal compact referendum and they manage to lose that too (which i think could spell the end for them).

It clearly hasn't failed given that it is still in place.
The campaign has run out of steam and has nowhere to go and no clear strategy.
The idea that the government are looking for a way to abandon the charge is delusional - there is no evidence whatsoever for that idea.

dvpower

Freddie59 wrote: »

One that equates with the country's ability to pay. You know - like in a normal household or private company. For example, if a child was being provided with, let's say, €30 pocket money while his/her Mam/Dad were in full employment do you think they'd be provided with the same level of pocket money if the parents income was dramatically reduced? If they continued to pay the €30 how long do you think THAT would go on for?

See where this is going? Cut your cloth and behave responsibly. And don't continue to pay out as if you have a budget surplus each year. not too much to ask really.

Could you put a figure on it? How much per week for a single adult would you cut it to if you were in power?

gerryo777

bgrizzley wrote: »

to give him his dues, he did take a stand against an unfair tax...............:)

Then ran back to mammy!!!

Freddie59

dvpower wrote: »

Could you put a figure on it? How much per week for a single adult would you cut it to if you were in power?

DV - I HAVE put a figure on it. If you do not have the same income you cannot have the same outgoings. This is basic maths, never mind economics.

Our daughter emigrated three years ago. She was on the UK dole for an extremely short time. She is now in full employment with a multinational. She was given stg£60 A FORTNIGHT. With a six-month time limit.

Several people who are on the dole have recently applied for work. One chap was offered 12 hours per week - spread across five days - for minimum wage. Around €100. And he wouldn't be allowed sign on any of the days he was working. He's getting €160 on the dole. Do you see where this is going?

It is craziness of the highest order.

What people seem unable to grasp is that we cannot continue to borrow TWENTY BILLION EURO a year in order to run the country. It is unsustainable.

gerryo777

dvpower wrote: »

Could you put a figure on it? How much per week for a single adult would you cut it to if you were in power?

The average PS/CS wage should be index linked to the equivalent wage in the private sector.
Simple, isn't it.
It was good enough in the good times.

dvpower

Freddie59 wrote: »

DV - I HAVE put a figure on it. If you do not have the same income you cannot have the same outgoings. This is basic maths, never mind economics.

Our daughter emigrated three years ago. She was on the UK dole for an extremely short time. She is now in full employment with a multinational. She was given stg£60 A FORTNIGHT. With a six-month time limit.

Several people who are on the dole have recently applied for work. One chap was offered 12 hours per week - spread across five days - for minimum wage. Around €100. And he wouldn't be allowed sign on any of the days he was working. He's getting €160 on the dole. Do you see where this is going?

It is craziness of the highest order.

What people seem unable to grasp is that we cannot continue to borrow TWENTY BILLION EURO a year in order to run the country. It is unsustainable.

What figure did you put on it? How much per week for a single adult?

dvpower

gerryo777 wrote: »

The average PS/CS wage should be index linked to the equivalent wage in the private sector.
Simple, isn't it.
It was good enough in the good times.

You have very limited ambitions for PS reform

tayto lover

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If you own a house you will finish up paying more than they did. I don't see any sign of the law being abolished.

Why do you think that so many people entitled to waivers refused to register ?

dxhound2005

tayto lover wrote: »

Why do you think that so many people entitled to waivers refused to register ?

Inertia mostly. Why do you think the poll here has 70% NO?

darkmaster2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzmbpI2rbTI

tayto lover

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Inertia mostly. Why do you think the poll here has 70% NO?

I think people are afraid to register and mistrust what they are being told. They probably think that very soon the waiver will be dropped and they will be caught in the net.
The poll here may also suggest that the official figures are being massaged to a certain extent too.
I could be entirely wrong but this poll does not reflect the official version.

gerryo777

dvpower wrote: »

You have very limited ambitions for PS reform

Do you think they should be paid less than the private sector?

I would also demand more efficiencies and have proper performance reviews.
No more jobs for life, 3 year rolling contracts only renewed if performance merits it.

I don't think I've ever seen you agree with anything I've ever put forward, maybe it's you, maybe it's me.

Hijpo

Should we be paying tax on a tax? A simple yes or no will do lads, see the question mark at the end black francis?

Bullseye1

We already do its called VAT.

Freddie59

dvpower wrote: »

What figure did you put on it? How much per week for a single adult?

I gave you the example of our daughter. I also know a chap in construction who moved to the UK - and was given stg£64 a week (around €80). They would seem to be heading towards a reasonable figure.

Tell me - honestly - how long you think this country can keep borrowing €400m a week to fund the extravagances of the PS/CS and SW?

Freddie59

gerryo777 wrote: »

The average PS/CS wage should be index linked to the equivalent wage in the private sector.
Simple, isn't it.
It was good enough in the good times.

It will be. And soon.

Frank Black

dvpower wrote: »

What figure did you put on it? How much per week for a single adult?

Well, you'd have to conclude that it's somewhat less than €100, given the example Freddie gives.

I think it's strange and somewhat selfish that you'd cut someones income by well over 50% rather than countenance a property tax.

Declan Lander

gerryo777 wrote: »

Do you think they should be paid less than the private sector?

I would also demand more efficiencies and have proper performance reviews.
No more jobs for life, 3 year rolling contracts only renewed if performance merits it.

And the way politics in Ireland works, that would actually mean the sacking of all the unconnected employees, while the corrupt and connected ones remain, and their connected pals give them nice high performance reviews.

The real problem with the Irish PS is there are far too many so called 'managers' on high wages, all issuing hare-brained contradictory policies and procedures to justify their jobs. Cull them, not the middle and lower workers.

Frank Black

bgrizzley wrote: »

in fairness, Francis, i think you should answer the question freddie posed before you him ask another.

It's perfectly acceptable to ask for clarification of a question prior to answering it, go backseat mod somewhere else.

In fairness.

Freddie59

black francis wrote: »

Well, you'd have to conclude that it's somewhat less than €100, given the example Freddie gives.

I think it's strange and somewhat selfish that you'd cut someones income by well over 50% rather than countenance a property tax.

So a tax that might take in €80m in a year can counteract the €400m we're borrowing PER WEEK?:eek:

As I said, people are completely delusional if they think that this can continue.

Freddie59

black francis wrote: »

Well, you'd have to conclude that it's somewhat less than €100, given the example Freddie gives.

I think it's strange and somewhat selfish that you'd cut someones income by well over 50% rather than countenance a property tax.

Let me ask you Francis - what figure do you put on it? And do you honestly believe that a country of 4.5 millions souls can keep borrowing €400m PER WEEK? FFS - it's only when you see it in front of you that the staggering amount sinks in.