Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

Frank Black

Freddie59 wrote: »

So a tax that might take in €80m in a year can counteract the €400m we're borrowing PER WEEK?:eek:

As I said, people are completely delusional if they think that this can continue.

So you'd rather cut an unemployed persons income by over €5.5k than pay, say 1k in a yearly property tax?

Frank Black

Freddie59 wrote: »

Let me ask you Francis - what figure do you put on it? And do you honestly believe that a country of 4.5 millions souls can keep borrowing €400m PER WEEK? FFS - it's only when you see it in front of you that the staggering amount sinks in.

A cut of €10 would be reasonable, that'd work out at €500 pa, about half of what most people believe an average property tax would be.

Freddie59

black francis wrote: »

So you'd rather cut an unemployed persons income by over €5.5k than pay, say 1k in a yearly property tax?

Not that simple Francis. I ask you again: how long can we continue to borrow €400m per week. A valid question under the circumstances. And what figure do you realistically think the country can afford?

Expenditure of our magnitude is way beyond our income. That is a harsh economic reality.

Bullseye1

black francis wrote: »

So you'd rather cut an unemployed persons income by over €5.5k than pay, say 1k in a yearly property tax?

I don't think there is any need to reduce anyone's level by €5k. But you will admit we need to reduce social welfare across the board and public sector pay and pensions. Either that or reduce the numbers substantially working in the public sector. I certainly don't see any justification with hitting those still working with more taxes to maintain someone else's standard of living.

Freddie59

black francis wrote: »

A cut of €10 would be reasonable, that'd work out at €500 pa, about half of what most people believe an average property tax would be.

OK, 500,000 unemployed. That will reduce expenditure by €5m weekly. And will have little or no effect on the TWENTY BILLION that we borrow each year.

Here's what has to happen to reduce our defict:

* SW rates and "entitlements" drastically reduced.

* Public sector numbers drastically reduce.

* Ludicrous Civil Service numbers, pay, and "entitlements to be reduced.

Then we might see a real reduction.

Freddie59

Bullseye1 wrote: »

I certainly don't see any justification with hitting those still working with more taxes to maintain someone else's standard of living.

The bottom line. The CS and PS have developed an arrogance of "entitlement" which defies belief really. And are completely out of touch with reality. Along with the Government.

Freddie59

black francis wrote: »

A cut of €10 would be reasonable, that'd work out at €500 pa, about half of what most people believe an average property tax would be.

How long do you think we can continue to borrow €400m a week Francis?

Frank Black

Freddie59 wrote: »

How long do you think we can continue to borrow €400m a week Francis?

If you read my posts you'd know that borrowing reductions are something I'm in favour of.
Sooner we start reducing it the better - a property tax is part of this strategy.

Bullseye1

A propery tax is not going to be anywhere near enough to reduce the deficit. But I guess your not really bothered in debating that fact. I'm done with this thread and the government shills.

bgrizzley

black francis wrote: »

It's perfectly acceptable to ask for clarification of a question prior to answering it, go backseat mod somewhere else.

In fairness.

clearly, it wasnt clear that you were looking for clarification...............;)

Frank Black

Bullseye1 wrote: »

A propery tax is not going to be anywhere near enough to reduce the deficit. But I guess your not really bothered in debating that fact. I'm done with this thread and the government shills.

probably because no one ever suggested it was.

Declan Lander

Freddie59 wrote: »

How long do you think we can continue to borrow €400m a week Francis?

As long as it takes to keep the billionaires and their political cronies in luxury.

bgrizzley

dvpower wrote: »

It clearly hasn't failed given that it is still in place.
The campaign has run out of steam and has nowhere to go and no clear strategy.
The idea that the government are looking for a way to abandon the charge is delusional - there is no evidence whatsoever for that idea.

never said they were looking, i said they had no choice, but they dont have the sense to realise they've lost the people and go into damage limitation mode....

Frank Black

bgrizzley wrote: »

never said they were looking, i said they had no choice, but they dont have the sense to realise they've lost the people and go into damage limitation mode....

They haven't lost the people I'm afraid.

I predict compliance rates will be over 80% within 3 years.

Then you'll be part of a small section of society that continues to delude themselves they don't have to contribute towards our economic recovery.

dvpower

Freddie59 wrote: »

I gave you the example of our daughter. I also know a chap in construction who moved to the UK - and was given stg£64 a week (around €80). They would seem to be heading towards a reasonable figure.

€80 p/w, eh?
I think there are probably about 1% of people that would go with that figure - its not realistic at all.

Freddie59 wrote: »

Tell me - honestly - how long you think this country can keep borrowing €400m a week to fund the extravagances of the PS/CS and SW?

Not long - we need to close the deficit over then next few years. During the last election campaign there was a lot of debate about what mix of spending cuts and tax increases would bridge the deficit. iirc the governing parties were campaigning on 1/4 to 1/3 to come from new taxes.

Hijpo

Bullseye1 wrote: »

We already do its called VAT.

Are any of the pro household tax brigade alright with paying VAT on the carbon tax?

bgrizzley

black francis wrote: »

They haven't lost the people I'm afraid.

I predict compliance rates will be over 80% within 3 years.

Then you'll be part of a small section of society that continues to delude themselves they don't have to contribute towards our economic recovery.

at the rate they are going they will be damn lucky to still be there in three years time not to mind their unjust tax.
Also, ive no bother adding more to what i already contribute, i just wont pay a rent on my home.....

Declan Lander

Freddie59 wrote: »

Tell me - honestly - how long you think this country can keep borrowing €400m a week to fund the extravagances of the PS/CS and SW?

The same length of time they can continue to pay 200 billion to keep billionaire speculators and their political cronies living in luxury with public money.

mikom

black francis wrote: »

They haven't lost the people I'm afraid.

I predict compliance rates will be over 80% within 3 years.

They've lost approx 50% of the households in the country regarding this charge.
Forced compliance will not get these people on your side.

The local elections should be interesting.

dvpower

gerryo777 wrote: »

Do you think they should be paid less than the private sector?

I would also demand more efficiencies and have proper performance reviews.
No more jobs for life, 3 year rolling contracts only renewed if performance merits it.

I don't think I've ever seen you agree with anything I've ever put forward, maybe it's you, maybe it's me.

I think pay should be determined locally, according to market conditions. PS managers should be allowed to manage, including to hire and fire, set pay and conditions, outsource services etc.
There should be none of the restrictions in the public sector that don't apply in the private sector and employees should be able to move between both sectors just like private sector workers can move from Company A to Company B now.

Declan Lander

dvpower wrote: »

PS managers should be allowed to manage, including to hire and fire, set pay and conditions, outsource services etc.

Oh God please no.
This is Ireland FFS : All the useless connected cronies would be kept and get a pay increase, and all the unconnected honest PS workers would be sacked to keep the connected ones safe and comfy.

Frank Black

mikom wrote: »

They've lost approx 50% of the households in the country regarding this charge.
Forced compliance will not get these people on your side.

The local elections should be interesting.

Given your previous predicition of 25% compliance rate by the deadline, you'll not be too suprised to find out you're wrong again I hope.

dvpower

black francis wrote: »

Given your previous predicition of 25% compliance rate by the deadline, you'll not be too suprised to find out you're wrong again I hope.

A few weeks prior to the deadline, I remember mikom was very fond of quoting certain posts and promising to remind us of what we had said later on.

He stopped doing that.

Phill Ewinn

dvpower wrote: »

I think pay should be determined locally, according to market conditions. PS managers should be allowed to manage, including to hire and fire, set pay and conditions, outsource services etc.
There should be none of the restrictions in the public sector that don't apply in the private sector and employees should be able to move between both sectors just like private sector workers can move from Company A to Company B now.

Already have nordie contractors doing council work. Can't see how outsourcing would help. PS workers have no idea what things cost and don't care.

The answer to all questions is accountability. No progress will ever be made without it.

mickydoomsux

I also like how nearly every opinion poll of approval ratings has FG either holding steady or in some cases gaining popularity.

The next set of elections/next referendum aren't going to be "interesting", they are going to be a foregone conclusion. Most people realise that we need to endure a few necessary evils to get the country back to growth and things aren't actually that bad in the first place anyway hence they are fairly happy with our current leaders and would probably return them in an election.

The media and the panicky doom-sayer idiots that they give credence to have a lot to answer for.

tayto lover

dvpower wrote: »

I think pay should be determined locally, according to market conditions. PS managers should be allowed to manage, including to hire and fire, set pay and conditions, outsource services etc.
There should be none of the restrictions in the public sector that don't apply in the private sector and employees should be able to move between both sectors just like private sector workers can move from Company A to Company B now.

The County and Town Councils are already employing contractors from Northern Ireland so that's not much good to the local economy at all.

Johro

http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/news/wexfords-4m-shortfall-as-just-one-third-pay-the-household-charge-3071331.html

Declan Lander

Freddie59 wrote: »

The bottom line. The CS and PS have developed an arrogance of "entitlement" which defies belief really. And are completely out of touch with reality. Along with the Government.

lol, while the Irish private sector developers, bondholders, SCAMA, estate agents, politicians, bankers, eircon, anglo bank, quinn, bondholders, bertie, seanie, fingers, and the golden circle are bastions of hardworking non entitlement and fairness. Don't try to make us laugh or insult us with your see though one sided corrupt cronie lies.

blowtorch

Johro wrote: »

http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/news/wexfords-4m-shortfall-as-just-one-third-pay-the-household-charge-3071331.html

And that's the truth of the matter.

dvpower

tayto lover wrote: »

The County and Town Councils are already employing contractors from Northern Ireland so that's not much good to the local economy at all.

You might think that the PS should be all about providing employment to the people who work in it, but I don't share that view.