Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

Wild Bill

dvpower wrote: »

You might think that the PS should be all about providing employment to the people who work in it, but I don't share that view.

No, you and the current illegitimate Regime think they are all about collecting money for the German Banks - providing employment for German bankers. :cool:

alastair

blowtorch wrote: »

And that's the truth of the matter.

As is the fact that a majority have paid up nationally. Cheers to the non-payers for the current funding shortfall though!

alastair

Freddie59 wrote: »

DV - I HAVE put a figure on it. If you do not have the same income you cannot have the same outgoings. This is basic maths, never mind economics.

Our daughter emigrated three years ago. She was on the UK dole for an extremely short time. She is now in full employment with a multinational. She was given stg£60 A FORTNIGHT. With a six-month time limit.

Sounds like your daughter wasn't getting the dole. Minimum non-contributory JSA is well above that figure, as is Income Support.

alastair

Freddie59 wrote: »

And are all those provided with a car free gratis by the State?:rolleyes:

Given that they're not motorists, no. As I say, you have to have ownership to be liable for a tax on your asset. Quite why you believe that local authority renters (the clue to the 'free gratis' misnomer should be evident there) should have to pay a property tax, when private sector renters don't, is a bit of a head-scratcher.

lividduck

Wild Bill wrote: »

No, you and the current illegitimate Regime think they are all about collecting money for the German Banks - providing employment for German bankers. :cool:

I presume you mean the current democratically elected government?

tayto lover

dvpower wrote: »

You might think that the PS should be all about providing employment to the people who work in it, but I don't share that view.

Not at all, not in the P.S.
But I would expect them to employ people who would at least spend the money in the Republic which would help this economy, help to create employment here and provide/keep jobs going in small businesses, shops etc.

lividduck

tayto lover wrote: »

Not at all, not in the P.S.
But I would expect them to employ people who would at least spend the money in the Republic which would help this economy, help to create employment here and provide/keep jobs going in small businesses, shops etc.

I think that under E.U. rules they are obliged to tender all work and any company from the E.U. can get the work. So a lot of N.I. and other companys from outside the Republic end up getting contracts.

tayto lover

lividduck wrote: »

I think that under E.U. rules they are obliged to tender all work and any company from the E.U. can get the work. So a lot of N.I. and other companys from outside the Republic end up getting contracts.

Could we not just discard that one and pretend

Izzy Skint

alastair wrote: »

Given that they're not motorists, no. As I say, you have to have ownership to be liable for a tax on your asset. Quite why you believe that local authority renters (the clue to the 'free gratis' misnomer should be evident there) should have to pay a property tax, when private sector renters don't, is a bit of a head-scratcher.

the private sector renters landlord's are liable for the tax, so should not the LA pay their share for the LA renters?....well that would be an absurd situation as it is the LA's that this tax is earmarked for....so we have a large group in society who are not liable because their landlord is the ONLY LANDLORD who will get all this tax (supposedly !).......
private landlords can pass this on to private renters, why can't LA's pass it on....increase rents perhaps...it would be only €2 a week !!!....and next year it would be only €10 or €20 a week....we are all being told it is not much so that arguement applies to all??...
the government have made numerous mistakes with this robbery of the irish people, next year the HHC will be called a property tax but the money is for local services which everybody (according to the politicians) uses but not everybody pays for.....and yet it is assumed to be fair.... bollocks I say!!....they can't have it both ways.

question for the alastair, black francis etc ......how many people do you think would have paid by March 31'st if it had cost €500 or €1,000 to "register" this year????.....would 50% have paid?........my guess is 10% - 15%.
another question for you guys, how many people would have registered if they were not bombarded on the airwaves with threats of penalties, fines, court, being tracked down etc. by bully boy politicians??...I can only guess but i am certain that a large % of those who have paid did so due to FEAR !!....to me that is the trademark of a dictatorship with hauptsturmfuhrer Kenny at the helm.....
DEMOCRACY MY ASS....EQUALITY MY ASS !!!!!

alastair

Izzy Skint wrote: »

next year the HHC will be called a property tax but the money is for local services which everybody (according to the politicians) uses but not everybody pays for.....and yet it is assumed to be fair.... bollocks I say!!....they can't have it both ways.

Everybody pays for local services. Not everybody pays property tax. Not a difficult principle to follow surely?

Izzy Skint

alastair wrote: »

Everybody pays for local services. Not everybody pays property tax. Not a difficult principle to follow surely?

so you say everbody already pays for local services?....so some must pay again?....just because they own a house?....for me that is a very difficult principle to follow...explain please

you obviously have never owned a business, it would have only lasted a couple of weeks if you believe in principles like that....
cushy public sector job for you I would guess, or cushy public sector pension eh ?...well alastair ?

Izzy Skint

Declan Lander wrote: »

lol, while the Irish private sector developers, bondholders, SCAMA, estate agents, politicians, bankers, eircon, anglo bank, quinn, bondholders, bertie, seanie, fingers, and the golden circle are bastions of hardworking non entitlement and fairness. Don't try to make us laugh or insult us with your see though one sided corrupt cronie lies.

...and who benefitted from all the extra revenue created by these crooks?...where did the government spend the money?....let me tell you where....social welfare + PS pay and pensions exploded...remember benchmarking !!...plus all the wastage in overinflated budgets of education , LA's and health...
education + health budgets have been reduced but cut but badly implemented.
SW and PS pay + pensions have been reduced but nowhere near to what's needed.
with regards to all those you mentioned above, they should be hung up I agree....but they are all no different to those in power today, who are stealing from us to pay that lot and their debts...

ArmaniJeanss

Izzy Skint wrote: »

another question for you guys, how many people would have registered if they were not bombarded on the airwaves with threats of penalties, fines, court, being tracked down etc. by bully boy politicians??...I can only guess but i am certain that a large % of those who have paid did so due to FEAR !!....to me that is the trademark of a dictatorship with hauptsturmfuhrer Kenny at the helm.....
DEMOCRACY MY ASS....EQUALITY MY ASS !!!!!

The trademark of a dictatorship? Lolwat.

Izzy Skint

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

The trademark of a dictatorship? Lolwat.

It's not that funny for a lot of people out there in the real world...

Wild Bill

lividduck wrote: »

I presume you mean the current democratically elected government?

Yes, like the Nazis - elected democratically and then destroyed democracy.

Bullseye1

Good news for those who paid large levels of Stamp Duty, you maybe exempt.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/hayes-confirms-option-of-property-tax-exemption-for-boom-time-buyers-546618.html

This will go down well on those who have paid millions for their home. I'm sure they will be relieved that they maybe exempt.

In Budget 2011, stamp duty was lowered to 1 per cent of purchase price on properties up to €1 million. Prior to that, rates of up to 9 per cent were levied. For a then averagely priced house of €240,000 stamp duty was €8,050. For a €600,000 house stamp duty was €33,250.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0407/1224314499700.html

alastair

Izzy Skint wrote: »

so you say everbody already pays for local services?....so some must pay again?....just because they own a house?....for me that is a very difficult principle to follow...explain please

you obviously have never owned a business, it would have only lasted a couple of weeks if you believe in principles like that....
cushy public sector job for you I would guess, or cushy public sector pension eh ?...well alastair ?

You own an asset - in this case a house. Tax is liable on that asset. You pay it. Someone doesn't own that asset. They don't pay. Simple enough, I'd have thought?

I own and run a business. Have done so for quite a bit longer than a few weeks.

alastair

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

The trademark of a dictatorship? Lolwat.

I also have to love the need for ADDED EMPHASIS!!! all over the gaff. Loolah argument presented with all the whistles and bells.

Frank Black

Izzy Skint wrote: »

question for the alastair, black francis etc ......how many people do you think would have paid by March 31'st if it had cost €500 or €1,000 to "register" this year????.....would 50% have paid?.......

No idea.

Izzy Skint wrote: »

another question for you guys, how many people would have registered if they were not bombarded on the airwaves with threats of penalties, fines, court, being tracked down etc. by bully boy politicians??...I can only guess but i am certain that a large % of those who have paid did so due to FEAR !!....to me that is the trademark of a dictatorship with hauptsturmfuhrer Kenny at the helm....

No idea.

How many motorists stay within the speed limit due to fear of getting speed checked by the Gardai?

Is this also a trademark of a dictatorship?

mikom

black francis wrote: »

No idea.





How many motorists stay within the speed limit due to fear of getting speed checked by the Gardai?

Are we including county council and local authority cars here?...........

Izzy Skint

alastair wrote: »

I also have to love the need for ADDED EMPHASIS!!! all over the gaff. Loolah argument presented with all the whistles and bells.

LOOLAH ????????...explain why?.....what planet are you from?....can you not even admit that people are hurting financially and this is going to make things a lot worse.....can you not admit that??????
can you not admit that it is unjust????.....can you not admit that it is unfair?????.....we all use local services?....am I right????....why not all pay????...it is a simple question
we all know what the gov. are doing, diverting revenue to pay for the f*cking mess created by others that was allowed to happen by those in power who, by the way, done very nicely out of it all. They have f*cked this up big time in many ways but especially by combining a property tax with the provision of local services....a big mistake!...it would have been better if they just came out and told the truth saying it was to pay our banking debts rather than p!ssing people off with all this crap about local services etc.
....but the gov. want a "reliable" revenue stream and property was an easy choice....WRONG....this ain't over by a long way yet...

Izzy Skint

black francis wrote: »

No idea.



No idea.

How many motorists stay within the speed limit due to fear of getting speed checked by the Gardai?

Is this also a trademark of a dictatorship?

NO, it is a road safety initiative to cut deaths you silly boy!!...
oh !....and yes, it is also a revenue generator for the state!!

ALASTAIR, was francis's arguement loolah ?

Frank Black

Izzy Skint wrote: »

NO, it is a road safety initiative to cut deaths you silly boy!!...
oh !....and yes, it is also a revenue generator for the state!!

ALASTAIR, was francis's arguement loolah ?

I think you're a bit confused as to what exactly you're trying to argue, so I'll have another go at trying to clarify your position.

Is compliance of a law due to the fear of the consequences of getting caught breaking it, the 'trademark of a dictatorship'?

Lone Stone

Ah i see the government's new propaganda department is still in full swing. :rolleyes:

Izzy Skint

we all know what is happening here with the HHC / property tax and why it is happening.
The bottom line is people have had enough, "middle ireland" is being fisted big time.
Regardless of what side of the arguement you are on I think everyone would admit that this can't go on indefinitely......can we all admit that ?
We all know about the huge deficit, there is not a hope in hell that tax increases etc. could make up this shortfall, it is the wrong approach.
The emphasis will have to be on cutting expenditure, and massively so. Why squeeze billions more out of a sick economy only to pump it into what I would regard as the most inefficient, wasteful and corrupt government and public sector in Europe??...apart from Greece perhaps !
It is the wrong road the government have chosen, this will only make our situation a lot worse, if that's possible.
Massive cuts in gov. spending is the only way, the problem is we don't and never had politicians who are willing, able or the guts to do this.

Izzy Skint

black francis wrote: »

I think you're a bit confused as to what exactly you're trying to argue, so I'll have another go at trying to clarify your position.

Is compliance of a law due to the fear of the consequences of getting caught breaking it, the 'trademark of a dictatorship'?

I said NO, but let me ask you this....
Is compliance with a law, which the vast majority of the people in this country do not want, but yet is forced upon them, is that the trademark of a dictatorship?....in my eyes yes!
are most people are in favour of speed limits?..yes

the pro tax side claim that over 50% have paid / registered...that is debatable....but my point is how many of that 50% see this as unfair, unjust etc. but have paid it anyway due to fear etc. sounds like a dictatorship to me ....

guys, you really need to get away from all this motor tax / speeding comparisons...

dxhound2005

Lone Stone wrote: »

Ah i see the government's new propaganda department is still in full swing. :rolleyes:

70% NO on the poll and biased opinions on the thread to match and you still want to close down any contrary views?

dvpower

Izzy Skint wrote: »

I said NO, but let me ask you this....
Is compliance with a law, which the vast majority of the people in this country do not want, but yet is forced upon them, is that the trademark of a dictatorship?....in my eyes yes!
are most people are in favour of speed limits?..yes

the pro tax side claim that over 50% have paid / registered...that is debatable....but my point is how many of that 50% see this as unfair, unjust etc. but have paid it anyway due to fear etc. sounds like a dictatorship to me ....

guys, you really need to get away from all this motor tax / speeding comparisons...

What's the evidence for that?

Freddie59

black francis wrote: »

If you read my posts you'd know that borrowing reductions are something I'm in favour of.
Sooner we start reducing it the better - a property tax is part of this strategy.

I ask again - how long do you think we can continue to borrow €400m a week Francis. just a straight answer with a timeframe will do. Also, how much do you think a house owner should pay in property tax BTW?

Freddie59

dvpower wrote: »

€80 p/w, eh?
I think there are probably about 1% of people that would go with that figure - its not realistic at all.

So you believe that it is right to make it a disincentive for people to work as opposed to being on the dole? Great plan.:rolleyes:

dvpower wrote: »

Not long - we need to close the deficit over then next few years. During the last election campaign there was a lot of debate about what mix of spending cuts and tax increases would bridge the deficit. iirc the governing parties were campaigning on 1/4 to 1/3 to come from new taxes.

So we reduce it from €400m a week to €300m a week. How long do you think we can continue to borrow THAT much?