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Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

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    #1862
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    alastair wrote: »
    Everyone pays. It's kind of hard to get through life avoiding VAT etc. None of the property tax will go elsewhere - it's 100% destined for local authority funding.

    You keep on telling yourself that, you will eventually believe it.
    Freddie59 wrote: »
    If we have to. You cannot pay out what you do not have. Why should the Public Sector be immune from redundancies?:confused:

    You cannot just get rid of people when there is jobs there for them, I don't want to argue with you but it seem some people will not be happy until PS are made redundant. Who is going to do their jobs? I seen someone suggest giving the jobs to the private sector, this is a great idea of course, who will train in all these people and at what cost?


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    #1863
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    :D:D:D Delusion - ya gotta love it!

    We had gathered.


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    #1864
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    hondasam wrote: »
    You keep on telling yourself that, you will eventually believe it.

    Beyond pointing you to the relevant law repeatedly, I'm not sure what's going to help you understand that this is the case. Enjoy your fantasy - because cold hard evidence doesn't seem to enter into your critical process.


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    #1865
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    alastair wrote: »
    Beyond pointing you to the relevant law repeatedly, I'm not sure what's going to help you understand that this is the case. Enjoy your fantasy - because cold hard evidence doesn't seem to enter into your critical process.

    I honestly do not believe it will all go to local services, law or not. This government is a law onto itself and you cannot believe a word they say. It will be interesting to see what happens next. I heard on the radio today that anyone who paid stamp duty will be exempt next year.

    http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=paid%20stamp%20duty%20exempt%20household%20charge&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDwQqQIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rte.ie%2Fnews%2F2012%2F0407%2Fgovernment-considers-property-tax-exemptions.html&ei=bZeAT8bSK8K2hAeGmZCaBw&usg=AFQjCNGe0d-V9ExP9lLDa1oQ-yG-OBUtVA


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    #1866
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    hondasam wrote: »
    I honestly do not believe it will all go to local services, law or not. This government is a law onto itself and you cannot believe a word they say. It will be interesting to see what happens next. I heard on the radio today that anyone who paid stamp duty will be exempt next year.

    http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=paid%20stamp%20duty%20exempt%20household%20charge&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDwQqQIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rte.ie%2Fnews%2F2012%2F0407%2Fgovernment-considers-property-tax-exemptions.html&ei=bZeAT8bSK8K2hAeGmZCaBw&usg=AFQjCNGe0d-V9ExP9lLDa1oQ-yG-OBUtVA

    Got it in one Sam. They are completely untrustworthy, given their arrogance and u-turns on issues like the Seanad abolition.


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    #1867
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    hondasam wrote: »
    I honestly do not believe it will all go to local services, law or not. This government is a law onto itself and you cannot believe a word they say.

    I rest my case. Like I say - enjoy your fantasy.


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    #1868
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    alastair wrote: »
    I rest my case. Like I say - enjoy your fantasy.
    Unlike your delusion - across the board?


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    #1869
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    alastair wrote: »
    Just like the USC isn't a tax eh?

    Spin, Alastair. Something you're not very adept at.


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    #1870
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    hondasam wrote: »
    You cannot just get rid of people when there is jobs there for them, I don't want to argue with you but it seem some people will not be happy until PS are made redundant. Who is going to do their jobs? I seen someone suggest giving the jobs to the private sector, this is a great idea of course, who will train in all these people and at what cost?

    But how can you keep employing them when you cannot afford to? It's either lower salaries or numbers Sam. It is inevitable.


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    #1871
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    Spin, Alastair. Something you're not very adept at.

    There there now. I'm sure you're right. :rolleyes:


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    #1872
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,758 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    hondasam wrote: »
    I honestly do not believe it will all go to local services, law or not. This government is a law onto itself and you cannot believe a word they say. It will be interesting to see what happens next. I heard on the radio today that anyone who paid stamp duty will be exempt next year.

    http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=paid%20stamp%20duty%20exempt%20household%20charge&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDwQqQIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rte.ie%2Fnews%2F2012%2F0407%2Fgovernment-considers-property-tax-exemptions.html&ei=bZeAT8bSK8K2hAeGmZCaBw&usg=AFQjCNGe0d-V9ExP9lLDa1oQ-yG-OBUtVA

    Looks suspiciously like another sneaky attempt to get people to register.


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    #1873
    Izzy Skint
    Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭Izzy Skint


    gerryo, freddie59, hondasam...guys, we are wasting our time with these pro HHC idiots, they will not admit that it is unjust and unfair. They will not answer any questions posed directly to them because they can not argue with our logic....lol
    They are quite happy with the status quo and if that sentiment prevails then this country is well and truly f*cked.....bend over citizens of Ireland and take your fisting from uncle Phil...it's your patriotic duty!


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    #1874
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    But how can you keep employing them when you cannot afford to? It's either lower salaries or numbers Sam. It is inevitable.

    Lower what salaries, top, middle or bottom, we all know they will hit the bottom which will result in strikes, make no mistake about that.
    Who will the jobs then? Do you expect everyone to just take on more and more work?


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    #1875
    Izzy Skint
    Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭Izzy Skint


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Looks suspiciously like another sneaky attempt to get people to register.

    yeah, totally agree, and later on we will have another group exempt..the unemployed, elderly etc. ...and the rest will have an even greater burden to carry...and so the % who have paid will seem even higher etc. and then more government spin etc. .....basically, we are f*cked .


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    #1876
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Looks suspiciously like another sneaky attempt to get people to register.

    I would not be surprised tbh. There will be some catch to it that's for sure.


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    #1877
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Izzy Skint wrote: »
    They are quite happy with the status quo and if that sentiment prevails then this country is well and truly f*cked.....bend over citizens of Ireland and take your fisting from uncle Phil...it's your patriotic duty!
    At least there is some kind of realisation in your post that the HHC hasn't been defeated and is here to stay.
    Time now to take the pragmatic next step, pay the charge and avoid further penalties.


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    #1878
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,962 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    hondasam wrote: »
    I honestly do not believe it will all go to local services, law or not. This government is a law onto itself and you cannot believe a word they say. It will be interesting to see what happens next. I heard on the radio today that anyone who paid stamp duty will be exempt next year.

    http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=paid%20stamp%20duty%20exempt%20household%20charge&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDwQqQIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rte.ie%2Fnews%2F2012%2F0407%2Fgovernment-considers-property-tax-exemptions.html&ei=bZeAT8bSK8K2hAeGmZCaBw&usg=AFQjCNGe0d-V9ExP9lLDa1oQ-yG-OBUtVA

    It doesn't say that they will be exempt. Many of them are already exempt from the Household Charge anyway. I read in the paper that the Revenue Commissioners could be appointed to collect the Property Tax. Neither of these stories are proof of any concrete decisions.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0403/1224314298666.html


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    #1879
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    dvpower wrote: »
    Time now to take the pragmatic next step, pay the charge and avoid further penalties.

    Give me one good reason as to why I should give in and pay? The penalties do not bother me at the moment.


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    #1880
    Izzy Skint
    Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭Izzy Skint


    alastair wrote: »
    We had gathered.
    hondasam wrote: »
    Lower what salaries, top, middle or bottom, we all know they will hit the bottom which will result in strikes, make no mistake about that.
    Who will the jobs then? Do you expect everyone to just take on more and more work?

    just as a quick example...how about lowering the €500,000,000 paid in allowances to teachers last year?.......could we save a cople of hundred million euro on this alone ?....oh i forgot the croke park agreement...another sneaky deal done by our government....sort of like the deal with the IMF to introduce this HHC ?


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    #1881
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    hondasam wrote: »
    Give me one good reason as to why I should give in and pay? The penalties do not bother me at the moment.
    Its not a matter of giving in - you have already lost the battle. There is now no chance that the HHC will be defeated. You will pay eventually - its just a question of how much interest and penalties you will pay on top of the charge.

    So, the good reason to pay now, is that you will aviod unnecessary extra penalties.


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    #1882
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    dvpower wrote: »
    At least there is some kind of realisation in your post that the HHC hasn't been defeated and is here to stay.

    A broken clock is right twice a day.


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    #1883
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    Izzy Skint wrote: »
    just as a quick example...how about lowering the €500,000,000 paid in allowances to teachers last year?.......could we save a cople of hundred million euro on this alone ?....oh i forgot the croke park agreement...another sneaky deal done by our government....sort of like the deal with the IMF to introduce this HHC ?

    What allowances exactly? is this for correcting exam papers? There is lots of places where savings can be made, ministers pay and allowances is where I would start, do we really need all the ministers/County councillors we have?


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    #1884
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    dvpower wrote: »
    Its not a matter of giving in - you have already lost the battle. There is now no chance that the HHC will be defeated. You will pay eventually - its just a question of how much interest and penalties you will pay on top of the charge.

    So, the good reason to pay now, is that you will aviod unnecessary extra penalties.

    There's all that - and the fact that you're helping undermine local authority services for no good reason whatsoever.


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    #1885
    Izzy Skint
    Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭Izzy Skint


    dvpower wrote: »
    At least there is some kind of realisation in your post that the HHC hasn't been defeated and is here to stay.
    Time now to take the pragmatic next step, pay the charge and avoid further penalties.

    HHC here to stay ? i mentioned nothing of the sort...your words not mine....not a chance of me paying, you pro charge guys are only strengthening my determination....lol


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    #1886
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    alastair wrote: »
    That's right - it's a property tax.

    No property = no tax

    What do you call the places where council tenants live?
    Maybe they should pay BIK on their almost free (to them) housing.


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    #1887
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    dvpower wrote: »
    Its not a matter of giving in - you have already lost the battle. There is now no chance that the HHC will be defeated. You will pay eventually - its just a question of how much interest and penalties you will pay on top of the charge.

    So, the good reason to pay now, is that you will aviod unnecessary extra penalties.

    I don't think the government has won until everyone has registered and paid. We have not lost and they have not won.


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    #1888
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    alastair wrote: »
    There's all that - and the fact that you're helping undermine local authority services for no good reason whatsoever.
    sam doesn't believe that the money is going to local authorities, so that arguement isn't going to have much sway I'm afraid.


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    #1889
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    hondasam wrote: »
    I don't think the government has won until everyone has registered and paid. We have not lost and they have not won.
    You still think the charge will be defeated?:eek:
    How do you think that is going to play out?


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    #1890
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    dvpower wrote: »
    No. 1.57m according to the Indo today, quoting government figures.

    Are they that desperate now that their revising down their own figures, contrary to the most recent census, just to make their percentages look better?

    A farce from the start!


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    #1891
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    alastair wrote: »
    There's all that - and the fact that you're helping undermine local authority services for no good reason whatsoever.

    I have to say that my local authority does nothing for me and never will, Fact. Why should I pay for services I will not use, people in unfinished estates and LA housing can avail of all these things for no thing.
    My argument will always be the same, everyone pays of no one pays but I'm not paying for people who contribute nothing to the system.


This discussion has been closed.
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