Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

alastair

Freddie59 wrote: »

HOUSEHOLD charge Alastair?

Heh - so you are suggesting LA's pay the charge, in order to recieve the charge back. That'll really help bridge your 400 million shortfall!

alastair

black francis wrote: »

Billy's gone a good few posts now without mentioning the Nazis.

He deserves all our support as he closes in on double figures.

We're all rooting for you Bill, you can do it!

I almost wish I hadn't stuck him on ignore.

Almost.

But no.

gerryo777

alastair wrote: »

I love the fact that you think that local authorities should take money from themselves to pay a charge that goes back to themselves. I thought you were all about minimising waste in the public sector? :rolleyes:

I don't think that at all.
I think renters should be paying too.
If it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander, so to speak.

END THE DISCRIMINATION NOW!

dvpower

Freddie59 wrote: »

Even if 15m households paid €500 PA Property tax, it will generate some €750m in revenue PER ANNUM. We are borrowing €400m PER WEEK. How long is this model sustainable before the whole house of cards collapses?

In your simplified model containing only two measures, not long.

But this thread is about the Household Charge. Without the €160m that the HHC is bringing in to local authority funding, how much sooner would the whole 'house of cards' collapse?

alastair

gerryo777 wrote: »

I don't think that at all.
I think renters should be paying too.
If it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander, so to speak.

END THE DISCRIMINATION NOW!

So - leaving issues of geese, ganders, and elephants aside - you're suggesting that a property tax should be levied on those who don't own property? Maybe the same logic should be applied to motor tax - why should those freeloading non-motorists get away with not paying their motor tax eh?

DOWN WITH THIS KIND OF THING!

Freddie59

dvpower wrote: »

In your simplified model containing only two measures, not long.

But this thread is about the Household Charge. Without the €160m that the HHC is bringing in to local authority funding, how much sooner would the whole 'house of cards' collapse?

It's a pinprick DV. An ego trip on someone's part. They're not tackling the core issues of high PS/CS pay and "entitlements" because they're afraid to.

This is basic economics. You cannot spend more than you earn. As I already pointed out, if you or I were earning €32k per year, and pending €50k a year, along with borrowing €400 a week, how long do you think the people ho loan the money would tolerate it?

It is completely and utterly unsustainable.

Freddie59

alastair wrote: »

Heh - so you are suggesting LA's pay the charge, in order to recieve the charge back. That'll really help bridge your 400 million shortfall!

HOUSEHOLD charge Alastair....:) and BTW this is Ireland's shortfall.....something you and your ilk seem not to appreciate.

bgrizzley

alastair wrote: »

So - leaving issues of geese, ganders, and elephants aside - you're suggesting that a property tax should be levied on those who don't own property? Maybe the same logic should be applied to motor tax - why should those freeloading non-motorists get away with not paying their motor tax eh?

DOWN WITH THIS KIND OF THING!

isnt this a household tax, not a property tax?

dvpower

gerryo777 wrote: »

I don't think that at all.
I think renters should be paying too.
If it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander, so to speak.

END THE DISCRIMINATION NOW!

Good to see the "Don't Register, Don't Pay" mantra is abandoned. You've now gone from wanting nobody paying to wanting everybody paying.

Progress, of a sort.

Freddie59

alastair wrote: »

Another elephant in the room?! Getting pretty crowded in there.

€400m is a pretty big elephant Alastair, but with you cheerleading the Coalition I can see why you'd want to ignore and sideline it.

Freddie59

bgrizzley wrote: »

isnt this a household tax, not a property tax?

Allegedly. But now it seems to be some sort of Motor Tax as well. According to Hulk Hogan.:rolleyes:

alastair

Freddie59 wrote: »

HOUSEHOLD charge Alastair....:) and BTW this is Ireland's shortfall.....something you and your ilk seem not to appreciate.

Talk me through the process that allows LA payments, going back to LA funding, generate any savings in the scenario that I don't understand. I'm all ears.

alastair

bgrizzley wrote: »

isnt this a household tax, not a property tax?

The household charge is a property tax. Read the legislation if you don't understand what it is.

bgrizzley

Freddie59 wrote: »

€400m is a pretty big elephant Alastair, but with you cheerleading the Coalition I can see why you'd want to ignore and sideline it.

400 mill a week and FG are harassing the people for 3 million per week(and failing by only getting 1.5 mill)

Freddie59

alastair wrote: »

The household charge is a property tax. Read the legislation if you don't understand what it is.

Then why is it not called a property Tax?

dvpower

Freddie59 wrote: »

It's a pinprick DV. An ego trip on someone's part. They're not tackling the core issues of high PS/CS pay and "entitlements" because they're afraid to.

This is basic economics. You cannot spend more than you earn. As I already pointed out, if you or I were earning €32k per year, and pending €50k a year, along with borrowing €400 a week, how long do you think the people ho loan the money would tolerate it?

It is completely and utterly unsustainable.

... but little to do with the household charge. Wouldn't you be better off posting your views on the general economic situation in a more appropriate thread?
That said, I'm at a loss to understand how raising less money narrows the deficit.

bgrizzley

alastair wrote: »

The household charge is a property tax. Read the legislation if you don't understand what it is.

why didnt they call it a property tax then?

bgrizzley

lol freddie, are you reading my mind?

alastair

bgrizzley wrote: »

why didnt they call it a property tax then?

Maybe they credit most people with enough cop on to understand simple concepts? If they had called it a property tax, I'm betting you'd be whinging that it wasn't that because non-household property ownership was excluded. :rolleyes:

alastair

dvpower wrote: »

... but little to do with the household charge. Wouldn't you be better off posting your views on the general economic situation in a more appropriate thread?
That said, I'm at a loss to understand how raising less money narrows the deficit.

It all makes sense in his grand scheme - just as LA's passing property taxes from the left hand to the right, with whatever administration is involved - offers a saving in the deficit. You're failing to understand because you're in on the conspiracy.

bgrizzley

alastair wrote: »

Maybe they credit most people with enough cop on to understand simple concepts? If they had called it a property tax, I'm betting you'd be whinging that it wasn't that because non-houshold property ownership was excluded. :rolleyes:

your naive if you think they credit you with anything except being a cash cow...............:D

alastair

bgrizzley wrote: »

your naive if you think they credit you with anything except being a cash cow...............:D

I guess we're done with that particular red herring for the time being then?

bgrizzley

alastair wrote: »

non-household property ownership was excluded.

why would i? i pay rates.

bgrizzley

alastair wrote: »

I guess we're done with that particular red herring for the time being then?

we're not, read the legislation, its a household charge, not a property tax

alastair

bgrizzley wrote: »

we're not, read the legislation, its a household charge, not a property tax

It's a tax.

It's only applicable to owners of specified properties (see the legislation for any clarity you might need in that regard).

It's referenced as a taxation measure in the legislation.

It's a property tax.



Let me ask you this - is the USC a tax or not?

dvpower

alastair wrote: »

Let me ask you this - is the USC a tax or not?

I don't understand why they called it the Universal Social Charge. It doesn't apply outside our home galaxy.

bgrizzley

alastair wrote: »

It's a tax.

It's only applicable to owners of specified properties (see the legislation for any clarity you might need in that regard).

It's referenced as a taxation measure in the legislation.

It's a property tax.



Let me ask you this - is the USC a tax or not?

ok ill give you that, it is a tax, but its a household tax, not a property tax, (thats next year).
USC is a tax too.



edit
But they should have called it Planetary Social charge......

alastair

bgrizzley wrote: »

ok ill give you that, it is a tax, but its a household tax, not a property tax, (thats next year).
USC is a tax too.

The property tax on it's way will be levied on the same subset of the population - owners of houses. It's no different to the household charge in that respect. The waivers or exemption might shift, but not the principle of the tax. Both are property taxes.

bgrizzley

alastair wrote: »

The property tax on it's way will be levied on the same subset of the population - owners of houses. It's no different to the household charge in that respect. The waivers or exemption might shift, but not the principle of the tax. Both are property taxes.

if you believe that,how do you expect people to give money to a crowd that cant even get the name of the tax right?

alastair

bgrizzley wrote: »

if you believe that,how do you expect people to give money to a crowd that cant even get the name of the tax right?

I've no problem with the name. They can call it whatever they want tbh.