Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

Sionach

Oh no. I forgot to pay. Ah well. I'm sure the bankers will sleep easy knowing that nearly half of the population registered. How many paid is another issue.

alastair

Bullseye1 wrote: »

I'm sure those who haven't paid are quaking in their booths. In two years time the whole landscape could be completely different. As soon as this government starts to tackle the real issue of public expenditure expect to see some fractures in the coalition. Labour will be under serious pressure to protect the public sector from further necessary cuts required by the Troyka.

Dream on. We'll still be in hock to the troika - who we've committed to introduce property tax to. FG, FF, Labour are all supportive of property taxes, and there's the pragmatic reality that it's hard to shake off existing taxation that you actually need to keep going.

alastair

robbie7730 wrote: »

You have said ignorance of the law is not an excuse not to pay this property tax. Yet believing the poll tax was unfair was a good enough excuse for you not to pay? That seems very hypocritical to me.

You could feel the poll tax was unfair, but its perfectly fair to tax a person on a negative equity liability property, and their unfairness belief is wrong according to you.

And your reply to your hypocritical stance being pointed out is "Aww diddums"

I never declared ignorance of the law in relation to the poll tax - quite the opposite. I was well aware of the law.

Yes - the poll tax was unfair, unlike this tax.

Accusing me of hypocrisy doesn't actually make me a hypocrite - it's just more name-calling.

dvpower

Sionach wrote: »

Oh no. I forgot to pay.

Don't worry - you've got nearly 40 minutes left, but I'm sure if you filled in a form in the morning, post dated it, and sent it in, you'd probably be OK.

Bullseye1

dvpower wrote: »

Your analysis is that Labour will buckle at the prospect of cuts in expenditure and the outcome will be less, not more taxes?

And who takes over after that in your story?

The IMF. It's a pity they are not already in running the country.

tayto lover

alastair wrote: »

Dream on. We'll still be in hock to the troika - who we've committed to introduce property tax to. FG, FF, Labour are all supportive of property taxes, and there's the pragmatic reality that it's hard to shake off existing taxation that you actually need to keep going.

Was that not a F.G. decision and nothing to do with the Troika at all ?

dvpower

Bullseye1 wrote: »

The IMF. It's a pity they are not already in running the country.

wtf?
They mandated this property tax

Bullseye1

Your a tax evader and your on here preaching for others to pay their household charge here. You haven't a leg to stand on.

alastair wrote: »

I never declared ignorance of the law in relation to the poll tax - quite the opposite. I was well aware of the law.

Yes - the poll tax was unfair, unlike this tax.

Accusing me of hypocrisy doesn't actually make me a hypocrite - it's just more name-calling.

alastair

tayto lover wrote: »

Was that not a F.G. decision and nothing to do with the Troika at all ?

FF actually first broached it with the troika, but it's obviously an initiative that the troika want.

Bullseye1

dvpower wrote: »

wtf?
They mandated this property tax

I'm not against the property tax. I'm against how it's going to be wasted.

They also mandated lowering social welfare, public sector wages and pensions. If they were in here they would have already tackled those.

Jammy Donut

Self Employed people HAVE to pay it, Otherwise no Tax Clearance cert......


Bastards.

alastair

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Your a tax evader and your on here preaching for others to pay their household charge here. You haven't a leg to stand on.

If you say so. I'm happy that my argument is valid.

dvpower

Bullseye1 wrote: »

They also mandated lowering social welfare, public sector wages and pensions. If they were in here they would have already tackled those.

They are in here.

dvpower

Jammy Donut wrote: »

Self Employed people HAVE to pay it, Otherwise no Tax Clearance cert......

Is that the case? - I thought it wasn't.

Bullseye1

alastair wrote: »

If you say so. I'm happy that my argument is valid.

Do you or do you not owe money to a local authority in another country? Your fines and penalties must be added up.

alastair

Jammy Donut wrote: »

Self Employed people HAVE to pay it, Otherwise no Tax Clearance cert......


Bastards.

Rubbish. Has a failure to pay motor tax or TV licence ever popped up as an issue with your tax clearance cert? It's got nothing to do with your tax clearance cert.

alastair

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Do you or do you not owe money to a local authority in another country? Your fines and penalties must be added up.

I don't owe anything. I paid my rates.

Bullseye1

dvpower wrote: »

They are in here.

I know but they have given the government leeway in how it reduces its deficit. They still have commitments to meet on reducing our expenditure which as of now we have not met. I for one hope they stay here until the job of public sector reform is completed as we are not cabable of achieving it ourselves. Too many vested interests.

Bullseye1

alastair wrote: »

I don't owe anything. I paid my rates.

And your poll tax?

Bishop_Donal

Based on where we were three weeks ago, I guess Phil will actually be quite pleased with a 50% compliance rate (and it will now inevitably rise to 60-70% compliance, even before any enforcement commences).

It's here to stay now for sure.

For those who advocate the No position, I guess they can now refer to it as the Eur111 household charge, as that liability will sits on their dwelling within 30 minutes. Let the enforcement campaign commence, and everyone who is complying should play their own role in this respect.

This charge should be increased to 1/8th of 1% of the property value for the 31 March 2013 deadline, and to 1/4 of 1% of property value by 31 March 2014. Relatively small money for each contributor, and will make some impact on our collective deficit.

For the record, once we are in balance, we should default on the Bank debt.

Bruthal

alastair wrote: »

I never declared ignorance of the law in relation to the poll tax - quite the opposite. I was well aware of the law.

Yes - the poll tax was unfair, unlike this tax.

Accusing me of hypocrisy doesn't actually make me a hypocrite - it's just more name-calling.

But you are hypocritical. Its not name calling. I base the hypocritical reference on your postings. You decided the poll tax was unfair, and didnt pay.

Yet you think its fair to tax somone on the wealth of their negative equity home. As i said, your the most hypocritical poster i seen in my time on boards, by a very long way.

And you tried to slither out of this now with more rubbish about how you decide the poll tax is unfair so you dont pay, but this tax is fair, and tell us all to pay.

apache6

robbie7730 wrote: »

But you are hypocritical. Its not name calling. I base the hypocritical reference on your postings. You decided the poll tax was unfair, and didnt pay.

Yet you think its fair to tax somone on the wealth of their negative equity home. As i said, your the most hypocritical poster i seen in my time on boards, by a very long way.

And you tried to slither out of this now with more rubbish about how you decide the poll tax is unfair so you dont pay, but this tax is fair, and tell us all to pay.

robbie, don't waste your time mate, some people are just a waste of time.
Lackeys !

Bruthal

alastair wrote: »

I don't owe anything. I paid my rates.

Yea, of course you did. Except unfair ones.

alastair

robbie7730 wrote: »

But you are hypocritical. Its not name calling. I base the hypocritical reference on your postings. You decided the poll tax was unfair, and didnt pay.

That's right. Where does the hypocrisy arise?

squod

Ghandee wrote: »

Before his guaranteed pension I presume?

If we vote properly next time we may not need worry about that happening.

Ghandee

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Your a tax evader and your on here preaching for others to pay their household charge here. You haven't a leg to stand on.

robbie7730 wrote: »

But you are hypocritical. Its not name calling. I base the hypocritical reference on your postings. You decided the poll tax was unfair, and didnt pay.

Yet you think its fair to tax somone on the wealth of their negative equity home. As i said, your the most hypocritical poster i seen in my time on boards, by a very long way.

And you tried to slither out of this now with more rubbish about how you decide the poll tax is unfair so you dont pay, but this tax is fair, and tell us all to pay.

*opens new beer/gets popcorn*

Bruthal

alastair wrote: »

That's right. Where does the hypocrisy arise?

In every post you have written.

Bruthal

Ghandee wrote: »

*opens new beer/gets popcorn*

Well at least i wont expect a spell check as a way to point out my inferiority this time:D

dvpower

squod wrote: »

If we vote properly next time we may not need worry about that happening.

Its only 'proper' when you win? I think you may need to return to the practice of 'vote early, vote often'.

squod

dvpower wrote: »

Its only 'proper' when you win? I think you may need to return to the practice of 'vote early, vote often'.

.....and for you it's proper when everyone loses but FF/FGs mates!

Frank Black

Ghandee wrote: »

*opens new beer/gets popcorn*

*Turns up AC/DC even louder* I guess.

I'm glad I'm not your neighbour.

Some of us have kids that get up at 7am, so I'm off to bed.


In summary a resounding victory for every right-thinking Irish man.

Goodnight.

dvpower

squod wrote: »

.....and for you it's proper when everyone loses but FF/FGs mates!

I let the electorate decide, and then respect their decision. You?

Bruthal

black francis wrote: »

*Turns up AC/DC even louder* I guess.

I'm glad I'm not your neighbour.

Some of us have kids that get up at 7am, so I'm off to bed.


In summary a resounding victory for every right-thinking Irish man.

Goodnight.

Goodnite francis

Bishop_Donal

squod wrote: »

.....and for you it's proper when everyone loses but FF/FGs mates!

It can be hard to adjust to democracy and the law of the land, but hang in there.

apache6

democracy - the grand illusion.

Bruthal

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

It can be hard to adjust to democracy and the law of the land.

So alastair was saying.

xflyer

Ha, ha, blackfrancis, dvpower. I'm reminded of the bunker in Berlin, 1945. Right up to the end, with the Russians hammering on the door the illusion continues, right up to the end.

Well we Russians have spoken.

apache6

xflyer wrote: »

Ha, ha, blackfrancis, dvpower. I'm reminded of the bunker in Berlin, 1945. Right up to the end, with the Russians hammering on the door the illusion continues, right up to the end.

Well we Russians have spoken.

They would love Argentina, very similar to old ireland. Corrupt and incompetent.

squod

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

It can be hard to adjust to democracy and the law of the land, but hang in there.

So you accept the majority of the population do not want to pay a household charge and their views should be enforced?

alastair

robbie7730 wrote: »

So alastair was saying.

Quite - for some anyway, who live in a fantasy where the government is 'undemocratic' because they don't want to stump up €100.

dvpower

xflyer wrote: »

Well we Russians have spoken.

... and lost the cold war.

Seriously, it is now clear that the tax is here to stay. The anti charge people gave a bloody nose to the government, but no knockout punch. The government wins, on points.

Bruthal

alastair wrote: »

Quite - for some anyway, who live in a fantasy where the government is 'undemocratic' because they don't want to stump up €100.

A more slithering. Perhaps a mention of my car, still in the driveway as a garden ornament, will also help take your tax avoidng when it suits you, off the agenda now.

Bishop_Donal

squod wrote: »

So you accept the majority of the population do not want to pay a household charge and their views should be enforced?

I think you'll find that the initial compliance rate for the charge would be sufficient to garner an overall majority under proportional representation!

I'll guarantee you that the compliance rate will rise to the 70% mark minimum over the coming months. Then, bit by bit, the rest will come on board because they have no option. It's just like the bin charges all over again. Loads of empty vessels, but they'll all comply in the end because they ultimately have no choice (otherwise you own a property that you can't sell!!).

apache6

and the winners of this cold war are the very people who shafted ireland, Timothy Geithner US Treasury secretary came off the phone to Obama and straight away told our Government that under no circumstances would the US tolerate Ireland not paying all bond holders - contrary to IMF advice - extarordinary

apache6

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

I think you'll find that the initial compliance rate for the charge would be sufficient to garner an overall majority under proportional representation!

I'll guarantee you that the compliance rate will rise to the 70% mark minimum over the coming months. Then, bit by bit, the rest will come on board because they have no option. It's just like the bin charges all over again. Loads of empty vessels, but they'll all comply in the end because they ultimately have no choice (otherwise you own a property that you can't sell!!).

You can't sell property anyway, have you been under a rock - the economy is in freefall - 6 six years of falling domestic economy, a new EU record.

alastair

robbie7730 wrote: »

A more slithering. Perhaps a mention of my car, still in the driveway as a garden ornament, will also help take your tax avoidng when it suits you, off the agenda now.

Eh? You're the one who tried to pretend that motor tax wasn't a tax on car ownership - because you can keep the car in the garden without taxing it! If that's the best you can drum up, you deserve ridicule.

Why don't you toddle off and find something of mine in this thread that actually involves hypocrisy? Because you'll be wasting your time. I was quite clear on the reasons for supporting this tax, and opposing the poll tax - and if you can't get your head around that - not really my problem.

emo72

apache6 wrote: »

and the winners of this cold war are the very people who shafted ireland, Timothy Geithner US Treasury secretary came off the phone to Obama and straight away told our Government that under no circumstances would the US tolerate Ireland not paying all bond holders - contrary to IMF advice - extarordinary

I remember hearing about this at the time but didn't follow up on it. It is extraordinary and for those who think we live in a democracy, well, you do as long as you do as your told.

The Crab

I cannot believe there are people out there who argue for this fascist tax. Those who support it are doing very well under the current system and are frightened of change. It didn't take the world and its daughter to improve the czarist system in Russia, it shouldn't take the world and its daughter to change the fascist system in Ireland. It just needs a group of people who have bollocks who will stand up to this system where if you are rich you can do anything you like but if you are poor then be prepared to be spat on or go to prison.

Hasta la Victoria Siempre!

alastair

The Crab wrote: »

I cannot believe there are people out there who argue for this fascist tax. Those who support it are doing very well under the current system and are frightened of change. It didn't take the world and its daughter to improve the czarist system in Russia, it shouldn't take the world and its daughter to change the fascist system in Ireland. It just needs a group of people who have bollocks who will stand up to this system where if you are rich you can do anything you like but if you are poor then be prepared to be spat on or go to prison.

Hasta la Victoria Siempre!

Wow. Colour me impressed. A double fascist and a bonus white russian reference. And never gets near the actual issue to hand. Well done that man!

emo72

alastair wrote: »

Wow. Colour me impressed. A double fascist and a bonus white russian reference. And never gets near the actual issue to hand. Well done that man!

Think he is suggesting, the point that you are arguing in defence of the tax, therefore you are doing well under the current regime.