Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

dxhound2005

I know because there is no database that different numbers are being given for how many houses could be liable. But taking the original target set by the Government of €160 million I did some calculations on the latest figures.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0410/breaking31.html

They have taken in just over €87.5 million or just over 54% of the target so far including €125675 from some foolish people who had to give them €11 extra. Obviously the figures can only go up and with the next surge in 6 months I expect about 75% compliance by year end. A lot will depend on how they go about collecting the outstanding payments.

Bullseye1

Why is standing up for your belief foolish? People have different beliefs and principles. Calling them foolish is uncalled for.

hondasam

gerryo777 wrote: »

We'll see how many of our precious PS/CS workers will be so smug in a couple of years when the inevitable happens, their gravy is taken away and the household 'charge' turns into a 'tax' costing 10 times the 'only €2 a week' it is now.

I honestly hope the IMF stay here for as long as it takes to give these people a serious dose of reality.

I am one of those precious PS workers jerry and I can assure I'm on no gravy train nor is anyone I work with.
I know some people think all PS/CS workers are on Hugh salaries but it's not true. Some of us work for our wages.
Did you honestly think the IMF were going to get rid of half the PS or cut the wages to unreasonable levels?

Bullseye1

hondasam wrote: »

I am one of those precious PS workers jerry and I can assure I'm on no gravy train nor is anyone I work with.
I know some people think all PS/CS workers are on Hugh salaries but it's not true. Some of us work for our wages.
Did you honestly think the IMF were going to get rid of half the PS or cut the wages to unreasonable levels?

Well they and the EU are providing the money to pay your wages at present. If they are not happy with the GPA and it's progress things could get worse.

hondasam

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Well they and the EU are providing the money to pay your wages at present. If they are not happy with the GPA and it's progress things could get worse.

I'm not going to work for nothing and it would be unreasonable to expect we could take any more pay cuts.

Declan Lander

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Well they and the EU are providing the money to pay your wages at present. If they are not happy with the GPA and it's progress things could get worse.

Yep, never mind the bilions being given to Secret Bondholders, Seanie, Bertie, SCAMA and Pals, lets cowardly fight with other ordinary employees while the golden irish circle laugh at us all the way to the taxpayers banks.

dxhound2005

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Why is standing up for your belief foolish? People have different beliefs and principles. Calling them foolish is uncalled for.

Foolish for waiting three months when it would have cost €100 and then paying a week later at an extra €11. Which will happen to everyone holding out eventually in some shape or form.

Hijpo

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Why is standing up for your belief foolish? People have different beliefs and principles. Calling them foolish is uncalled for.

Foolish for waiting three months when it would have cost €100 and then paying a week later at an extra €11. Which will happen to everyone holding out eventually in some shape or form.

Unless they can take it from my bank balance themselfs they wont be getting a cent.

lugha

Declan Lander wrote: »

Most old people I know did not want to pay out of principle, but were scared stiff about the 'consequences', also heard the same from old people on many media interviews.

In other words, absolutely no difference whatsoever between this charge and the TV licence, or motor tax / NCT / insurance, or declaring income sources or any of the many, many laws that people voluntarily obey, not because they have an overwhelming urge to part with their money, but because there are consequences in law if they do not.

Declan Lander wrote: »

Bullshyte and lies.

Well I would all it deceit and propaganda on the no side, but certainly your description is more colourful

Bullseye1

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Foolish for waiting three months when it would have cost €100 and then paying a week later at an extra €11. Which will happen to everyone holding out eventually in some shape or form.

But a large section of the population are opposed to the charge. They don't see any benefit. All they see is their taxes being wasted. €11 is nothing to be worried about. I bet that the government doesn't even chase the €11 if someone sent in €100 now.

A fool and his money are easily parted. If you never question there can never be accountability.

Frank Black

Slick50 wrote: »

It was deception, to creat the impression that the people opposed were in the minority, creating the feeling of insecurity. Bullying.

But the tax dodgers are in the minority

Declan Lander

lugha wrote: »

In other words, absolutely no difference whatsoever between this charge and the TV licence, or motor tax / NCT / insurance, or declaring income sources or any of the many, many laws that people voluntarily obey, not because they have an overwhelming urge to part with their money, but because there are consequences in law if they do not.

Wrong, I and many other people have no problem with these taxes. They were not invented to pay off the private gambling debts of billionaire crooks and liars so they could continue to live in luxury and laugh all the way from Anglo to their tax free Caymen Islands accounts.

Bullseye1

hondasam wrote: »

I'm not going to work for nothing and it would be unreasonable to expect we could take any more pay cuts.

No one is happy to be earning less but it's happening. Less people working means less tax being collected. Expect more tax increases in future budgets. At least when you retire you will have a pension worth something.

dxhound2005

Hijpo wrote: »

Unless they can take it from my bank balance themselfs they wont be getting a cent.

A comparison could be made with the TV licence which has apparently about 85% compliance although the figures could be skewed by the fact that Social Welfare are paying about €55 million for free licences. Someone could get away with not paying for years and if they were caught they could just buy a licence and suffer no consequences. Which means the revenue will never be recovered.

With the Household Charge all outstanding amounts remain attached to the title of the house to be recovered whenever it changes hands if someone can evade the charge up to that point. So there is no way round it, something which CAHWT studiously avoid mentioning in their campaign.

tayto lover

Bullseye1 wrote: »

No one is happy to be earning less but it's happening. Less people working means less tax being collected. Expect more tax increases in future budgets. At least when you retire you will have a pension worth something.

Public Sector pensions have also been cut i'm told by a friend.

dxhound2005

This last three or four years I'm losing the equivalent of the Household Charge every two weeks from my wages. There was hardly a word about this when it happened more or less overnight back then.

Frank Black

Declan Lander wrote: »

Wrong, I and many other people have no problem with these taxes. They were not invented to pay off the private gambling debts of billionaire crooks and liars so they could continue to live in luxury and laugh all the way from Anglo to their tax free Caymen Islands accounts.

Presume you don't pay the USC either?

lugha

Declan Lander wrote: »

Wrong, I and many other people have no problem with these taxes. They were not invented to pay off the private gambling debts of billionaire crooks and liars so they could continue to live in luxury and laugh all the way from Anglo to their tax free Caymen Islands accounts.

Well that rather misses point. Many on the “no” side continue with this silly allegation of bullying on the basis that some people only paid because there were consequences in law if they did not. And in this respect, it is no different to any other tax / charge that is not automatically collected. Hence the allegation of bullying is a load of ‘aul scutter.

Out of curiosity, what do you think the “compliance” rate would be on any of the examples I mentioned if people were expected, but not legally obliged, to pay them?
I would say, give or take, of the order of 0%

mikom

dxhound2005 wrote: »

This last three or four years I'm losing the equivalent of the Household Charge every two weeks from my wages. There was hardly a word about this when it happened more or less overnight back then.

So you will sit back and take even more pilfering of your hard-earned wages....... is that what you are going to do?

Bullseye1

tayto lover wrote: »

Public Sector pensions have also been cut i'm told by a friend.

For new entrants? I'm sure there have been cuts to wages and pensions. But unfortunately due to our circumstances there will be more needed. Alternatively the numbers working have to be cut. I don't see any way around it.

dxhound2005

mikom wrote: »

So you will sit back and take even more pilfering of your hard-earned wages....... is that what you are going to do?

I paid €100 which as I said was about two weeks worth of what I am down in wages (along with hundreds of thousands of other workers). I made sure that I won't be handing over another €11 or more unnecessarly. Anyone putting their faith in the campaign or just deciding individually to break the law will finish up worse off in the long run.

hondasam

Bullseye1 wrote: »

No one is happy to be earning less but it's happening. Less people working means less tax being collected. Expect more tax increases in future budgets. At least when you retire you will have a pension worth something.

We all had to take pay cuts, this is reasonable in the circumstances but there is no point in having a job if the pay is so bad you would be better of unemployed.
When I retire my pension might not be worth anything. I agree cuts have to be made in numbers but I think they will make them in the wrong places.

steve9859

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Why is standing up for your belief foolish? People have different beliefs and principles. Calling them foolish is uncalled for.

Foolish for waiting three months when it would have cost €100 and then paying a week later at an extra €11. Which will happen to everyone holding out eventually in some shape or form.

I'm happy enough to pay the €11, or even whatever the 1 year fine is (€33 i think). If 100% of people paid immediately, the government would just keep coming back to the same well....nothing to even make them think twice....they'd think we were the softest electorate in history!! At least by showing some resistance, it might make them think a little more before taxing something else. I can afford the €30 penalty, so if that's what it costs me to make a point...to fire a shot over their bows (along with my imminent 'no' vote) so be it. They're going to have to work for my cash!!

Declan Lander

Bullseye1 wrote: »

For new entrants? I'm sure there have been cuts to wages and pensions. But unfortunately due to our circumstances there will be more needed. Alternatively the numbers working have to be cut. I don't see any way around it.

A far better way would be to slash the numbers and wages of anyone earning above 75k, but leave the ordinary PS workers alone. They've already agreed to two decent pay cuts and a hefty extra pension contributions levy. To remove a cancer you use a scapel, not a chainsaw. The Irish PS is top heavy, not bottom heavy.

At least 50% of PS wages go back to the government in taxes, prsi, vat, levies etc., the rest is spent on local private sector goods and services. You cannot cut your way out of a recession.

Bullseye1

hondasam wrote: »

We all had to take pay cuts, this is reasonable in the circumstances but there is no point in having a job if the pay is so bad you would be better of unemployed.
When I retire my pension might not be worth anything. I agree cuts have to be made in numbers but I think they will make them in the wrong places.

I agree with you. Front line staff will be cut and all these levels of management will go untouched. No wonder people have no faith in their politicians. They are afraid of high level civil servants who will be there long after they have left office.

Frank Black

hondasam wrote: »

We all had to take pay cuts, this is reasonable in the circumstances but there is no point in having a job if the pay is so bad you would be better of unemployed.

Don't worry, Freddie's thought of this and has proposed cutting unemployment benefit by €5.5k per year.

gerryo777

black francis wrote: »

But the tax dodgers are in the minority

What's the difference between one of these 'tax dodgers' you speak of and the PS unions attempting to put a gun to the governments head when they try to take away the PS gravy?

One group refuses to pay a €100 discriminatory tax while the others, say, the 60,000 teachers we employ refuse to give up an average of €10,000 each that they receive as gravy on top of their wages.

Something not right there.

The clock is ticking.........

bgrizzley

Even if this tax does last out the year. What about next year when they use the household charge database for the property tax. how many of the 50% will not pay it because it has doubled, trebled, quadrupled, god only knows. Wonder will they go after them first, or will they chase down the other 800,000k beforehand?
its a big mountain to climb for a bunch who couldnt even send out leaflets to tell people they were taxing them.

Declan Lander

hondasam wrote: »

I agree cuts have to be made in numbers but I think they will make them in the wrong places.

You can be sure of that. It will be done Irish style.
The top levels and their cronies will be kept, while the unconnected will be turfed out.

dxhound2005

bgrizzley wrote: »

Even if this tax does last out the year. What about next year when they use the household charge database for the property tax. how many of the 50% will not pay it because it has doubled, trebled, quadrupled, god only knows. Wonder will they go after them first, or will they chase down the other 800,000k beforehand?
its a big mountain to climb for a bunch who couldnt even send out leaflets to tell people they were taxing them.

What do you know about how the database is being compiled?