Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

gerryo777

Declan Lander wrote: »

You can be sure of that. The top levels and their lower cronies will be kept, while the unconnected will be turfed out.

That's why we need to keep the IMF here for as long as it takes.

If they had someone overseeing the cuts that are coming the things you mention above mightn't happen.

FF may have done us a favour in the long run.....

Slick50

black francis wrote: »

But the tax dodgers are in the minority

Typical politico twist! Your talking about the present, and I'm not entirely convinced that is true. (If you're talking about the wider economy)

We were talking about the government propaganda, leading up to the deadline, where the government dropped their own 1.8million due to register figure for the more readily massaged figure of 1.6million due to pay.

Why did they do that?. Why could they not simply state what penalties where written into the legislation, instead of the constant speculation and contradictions.?

Why was Leo Varadka constantly shoving his face into the limelight, infront of big Phil?

lugha wrote:

Hence the allegation of bullying is a load of ‘aul scutter.

Adding some "colour" to your posts.

Frank Black

gerryo777 wrote: »

What's the difference between one of these 'tax dodgers' you speak of and the PS unions attempting to put a gun to the governments head when they try to take away the PS gravy?

One group refuses to pay a €100 discriminatory tax while the others, say, the 60,000 teachers we employ refuse to give up an average of €10,000 each that they receive as gravy on top of their wages.

Something not right there.

The clock is ticking.........

At least you've stopped insisting you're in the majority - I see we're moving the argument onto public sector unions?

I got no love for those guys, but they're doing their job at the end of the day.

Bit of a stretch to try to lump them in with tax-dodgers.

mikom

dxhound2005 wrote: »

This last three or four years I'm losing the equivalent of the Household Charge every two weeks from my wages. There was hardly a word about this when it happened more or less overnight back then.

mikom wrote: »

So you will sit back and take even more pilfering of your hard-earned wages....... is that what you are going to do?

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I paid €100 which as I said was about two weeks worth of what I am down in wages (along with hundreds of thousands of other workers).

Don't be telling me about the losing the equivalent of the Household Charge every two weeks from your wages if you are prepared to stump up another €100 in household charge.
There was hardly a word about it in your house anyway.... as it seems you horse over everything asked of you.

gerryo777

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What do you know about how the database is being compiled?

What does anyone know, it's all amateurish guesswork by our 'top civil servants'.

dxhound2005

One side effect of bringing in the charge and setting up a database will be the identification of income tax evasion by landlords. And it will probably net a lot of the people with mulitple properties who haven't paid their NPPR to date and now owe about €1400 in arrears. The Revenue are named in the legislation as being one of the bodies who will share and exchange information and given their record in the last ten years chasing down the offshore accounts etc there should be some rich pickings.

http://www.donegaldaily.com/2012/04/07/household-charge-database-to-be-used-to-target-landlords-donegal-tax-expert/

Outkast_IRE

gerryo777 wrote: »

What does anyone know, it's all amateurish guesswork by our 'top civil servants'.

They have already started typing it up , their top people are on it

http://therandomfact.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/monkey-typewriter-simpsons-1.png

gerryo777

black francis wrote: »

At least you've stopped insisting you're in the majority - I see we're moving the argument onto public sector unions?

I got no love for those guys, but they're doing their job at the end of the day.

Bit of a stretch to try to lump them in with tax-dodgers.

A. I wouldn't believe one word about figures that comes from big phil's or any government department, especially when you consider our recent history.

B. The amount of money the so called 'tax dodgers' are refusing to pay involving this discriminatory tax is a mere drop in the ocean compared to the gravy our cosseted PS/CS workforce are insisting they won't give up.

When the IMF sort that lot out and include every household, not just homeowners, I may consider paying.

Declan Lander

gerryo777 wrote: »

That's why we need to keep the IMF here for as long as it takes.

If they had someone overseeing the cuts that are coming the things you mention above mightn't happen.

FF may have done us a favour in the long run.....

The IMF have zero intrest in our slimey dirty corrupt internal politics. They are here to collect money for their private wealthy foreign speculators, money they loaned to our private crooked golden circle speculators . Like any mob boss, they don't give a toss where their debtors find it, or how it's paid back, as long as its paid back, and, make no mistake, our petty crooks are going to extract it from their own ordinary Irish citizens, while they continue to laugh at us and continue to enjoy the high life.

Slick50

dxhound2005 wrote: »

One side effect of bringing in the charge and setting up a database

I wouldn't hold my breath for this database, LA's can't even compile an accurate live register, even when they are being spoon fed the information.

I have repeatedly handed in polling cards for previous occupiers of my home, telling them they no longer live there, one of whome is deceased. Yet sure enough, on subsequent issues, they all come piling in through the letterbox again.

dxhound2005

Slick50 wrote: »

I wouldn't hold my breath for this database, LA's can't even compile an accurate live register, even when they are being spoon fed the information.

I have repeatedly handed in polling cards for previous occupiers of my home, telling them they no longer live there, one of whome is deceased. Yet sure enough, on subsequent issues, they all come piling in through the letterbox again.

Maybe if some of their income depends on it, it will be a different story. And maybe if there was free butter being handed out at the Town Hall all the old bewildered people would be able to find it eventhough they apparently couldn't when they were being asked to pay €100.

gerryo777

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Maybe if some of their income depends on it, it will be a different story. And maybe if there was free butter being handed out at the Town Hall all the old bewildered people would be able to find it eventhough they apparently couldn't when they were being asked to pay €100.

Is alastair there with you?

Sorry, I meant the first part of that post sounded right, then it turned into something alastair would come out with.....

dxhound2005

gerryo777 wrote: »

Is alastair there with you?

Alas, poor Alastair. This thread isn't biased at all, I see the NO vote is down to 69.5%.

gerryo777

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Alas, poor Alastair. This thread isn't biased at all, I see the NO vote is down to 69.5%.

Maybe more of the yes voters come on when alastair and dv aren't around.:)

Slick50

dxhound2005 wrote: »

And maybe if there was free butter being handed out at the Town Hall all the old bewildered people would be able to find it eventhough they apparently couldn't when they were being asked to pay €100.

Nice sentiment.!

Freddie59

hondasam wrote: »

I am one of those precious PS workers jerry and I can assure I'm on no gravy train nor is anyone I work with.
I know some people think all PS/CS workers are on Hugh salaries but it's not true. Some of us work for our wages.
Did you honestly think the IMF were going to get rid of half the PS or cut the wages to unreasonable levels?

Some might call it reasonable levels Sam.

dxhound2005

Slick50 wrote: »

Nice sentiment.!

Some nice sentiments in the Tags at the bottom of the page.

bgrizzley

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What do you know about how the database is being compiled?

I was refering to the one they definitely have, not what they say they can do. (the fact that they think having an ESB bill in your name means you own a house doesnt instill much faith).

hondasam

Freddie59 wrote: »

Some might call it reasonable levels Sam.

We all agree the middle/top need to be cut. Cutting numbers, where do you start? I know there is waste in the PS/CS could not disagree with you on that.

donalg1

gerryo777 wrote: »

We'll see how many of our precious PS/CS workers will be so smug in a couple of years when the inevitable happens, their gravy is taken away and the household 'charge' turns into a 'tax' costing 10 times the 'only €2 a week' it is now.

I honestly hope the IMF stay here for as long as it takes to give these people a serious dose of reality.

Until that happens and the discrimination against home owners stops, I won't be paying jack ****!

I wouldn't say they are smug now. A lot if them arent exactly making a fortune now sure there are some living pretty comfortable but there are those not too well off cutting their wages will no doubt have a major impact on the private sector and small businesses in particular so cutting everyone's wages isn't the answer.

Raise income tax and cut SW for a start. Then introduce more charges like water charges and a property tax, scrap rent allowance and the long term social welfare life. Private sector workers claim that their taxes pay the wages of ps workers yet cutting their wages won't mean a reduction in taxes for the private sector worker it will most likely lead to reduced spending in the private sector businesses which will lead to higher unemployment and a higher SW bill

dxhound2005

bgrizzley wrote: »

I was refering to the one they definitely have, not what they say they can do. (the fact that they think having an ESB bill in your name means you own a house doesnt instill much faith).

The problem with trying to evade this charge is that unlike income tax evasion which is open to creative accounting you cannot make your house invisible. In the end someone's name is on the deeds and while starting from scratch it will obviously take time to set up the database it is something that can be made more complete as time goes on.

gerryo777

donalg1 wrote: »

I wouldn't say they are smug now. A lot if them arent exactly making a fortune now sure there are some living pretty comfortable but there are those not too well off cutting their wages will no doubt have a major impact on the private sector and small businesses in particular so cutting everyone's wages isn't the answer.

Raise income tax and cut SW for a start. Then introduce more charges like water charges and a property tax, scrap rent allowance and the long term social welfare life. Private sector workers claim that their taxes pay the wages of ps workers yet cutting their wages won't mean a reduction in taxes for the private sector worker it will most likely lead to reduced spending in the private sector businesses which will lead to higher unemployment and a higher SW bill

Donal, there's a million and one things that could be done to reduce our deficit. This should have been one of the last things implemented when all other things were sorted out.

Until I see genuine progress and reform of our wasteful PS/CS and the discriminatory part of this charge changed, I will not pay!

Slick50

dxhound2005 wrote: »

And maybe if there was free butter being handed out at the Town Hall all the old bewildered people would be able to find it eventhough they apparently couldn't when they were being asked to pay €100.

Were they taking payments at the town halls! Are you sure that wasn't the same guys going around, collecting door to door.

bgrizzley

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The problem with trying to evade this charge is that unlike income tax evasion which is open to creative accounting you cannot make your house invisible. In the end someone's name is on the deeds and while starting from scratch it will obviously take time to set up the database it is something that can be made more complete as time goes on.

Time is something they dont have, i think we both know that.
Unlike income tax evasion a lot of people who dont want to pay this tax are doing it on principle. In the words of the pro side, "its only E2 per week or price of a pint every month", people who evade income tax are doing it purely for greed.
ill pay them their E100, even more if they want, but i wont pay it on my home.

jluv

I think it's disgraceful that elderly people who are in nurseing homes less than 12 months(even though they are paying for these homes) have to pay the €100. Yeah I know they still own the asset,wealth is in the asset etc...but most likely don't have a computer,can't go to the post office and definatly won't be picking up free butter..However those who are on shared ownership scheme do not have to pay anything as the LA have an interest in this. But they do SHARE ownership..So they must be seen as having shared wealth as the wealth is in the asset??

donalg1

gerryo777 wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

I wouldn't say they are smug now. A lot if them arent exactly making a fortune now sure there are some living pretty comfortable but there are those not too well off cutting their wages will no doubt have a major impact on the private sector and small businesses in particular so cutting everyone's wages isn't the answer.

Raise income tax and cut SW for a start. Then introduce more charges like water charges and a property tax, scrap rent allowance and the long term social welfare life. Private sector workers claim that their taxes pay the wages of ps workers yet cutting their wages won't mean a reduction in taxes for the private sector worker it will most likely lead to reduced spending in the private sector businesses which will lead to higher unemployment and a higher SW bill

Donal, there's a million and one things that could be done to reduce our deficit. This should have been one of the last things implemented when all other things were sorted out.

Until I see genuine progress and reform of our wasteful PS/CS and the discriminatory part of this charge changed, I will not pay!

This charge is just one step in reducing the deficit there will be more and sure then people will have what they want

Slick50

My last rant of the night. If the government weren't "spinning" the numbers, how come they extended their own deadline for payment, whilst categorically denying they would do so?

By what date must it be paid before late penalties apply?

Payment must be made online or paper forms received with payment before 31st of March 2012. Where a person opts to pay the Household Charge in instalments, the Direct Debit Mandate must be set up online or paper form with completed mandate received by Household Charge, PO Box 12168, Dublin 1 by 1st of March 2012.

https://www.householdcharge.ie/Faq.aspx#fk26

Hijpo

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Hijpo wrote: »

Unless they can take it from my bank balance themselfs they wont be getting a cent.

A comparison could be made with the TV licence which has apparently about 85% compliance although the figures could be skewed by the fact that Social Welfare are paying about €55 million for free licences. Someone could get away with not paying for years and if they were caught they could just buy a licence and suffer no consequences. Which means the revenue will never be recovered.

With the Household Charge all outstanding amounts remain attached to the title of the house to be recovered whenever it changes hands if someone can evade the charge up to that point. So there is no way round it, something which CAHWT studiously avoid mentioning in their

My partner and i are in an area we are comfortable in and will probably never move unless we really have to. Chances are when our children grow up they will have there own houses. What would happen if when we died nobody got the house, or we left it to our dog in our will?

donalg1

Slick50 wrote: »

My last rant of the night. If the government weren't "spinning" the numbers, how come they extended their own deadline for payment, whilst categorically denying they would do so?



https://www.householdcharge.ie/Faq.aspx#fk26

They never extended the deadlines, the deadline for signing up for Direct Debit and the deadline for paying through the post, online or at the LA were always different deadlines

Slick50

donalg1 wrote: »

They never extended the deadlines, the deadline for signing up for Direct Debit and the deadline for paying through the post, online or at the LA were always different deadlines

The deadline on the website says...

Payment must be made online or paper forms received with payment before 31st of March 2012.

read it again donal, I highlighted it in bold and underscored it.

Yet they counted payments made on saturday as before the deadline, also accepting postal registration into the middle of the following week. That is an extension. But continued to come on the media stating there would be NO extension

No extension to Household Charge deadline - Minister Phil Hogan

Updated: 12:02, Friday, 30 March 2012

Minister for the Environment Phil Hogan has reiterated that there would be no extension to the Household Charge payment deadline.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0329/household-charge.html

So they have decided to bend the rules, because it suits their propaganda purposes. Some who missed the deadline won't have to pay late fees and interest, while others will. Banana republic!