Yes Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool are done. MOD POST #425 *ALL READ*

Morricone

#15 wrote: »

'Net spend' is an answer to a question about relative investment in each club.
So yeah, LFC have had less to spend than some other clubs, in net terms.

But that's not relevant to the discussion.

£100 million was generated through sales and investment, and subsequently spent on incoming players. People are saying that the players brought in for that £100 million were substandard.

Having a low net spend is not a defence for poor signings.

If anything, it makes it almost essential to get those signings right in the first place.

Fair enough. But people use the £100 million figure to castigate Kenny when his signings have been pretty much 50/50 hit or miss wise.

Suarez- Hit
Carroll- Miss
Enrique- Hit
Adam- Miss
Bellamy- Hit
Downing- Miss
Coates- Hit, just about but perhaps to early to judge
Henderson- Miss. But he is to miss as to what Coates is to hit.

We sold out best player last season in Meireles. We sold Torres who win he left us was bang in form and still one of the best strikers in the world.

We lost, and this isn't hyperbole, the best defensive/central midfielder in the league at the end of November and he's been a massive, massive loss. Huge, in fact things went pear shaped when he got injured. When he comes back for next season it'll be like a new signing.

Carroll has been a poor signing as has Downing there is no disputing that while Adam has been atrocious. These players don't do well under the intense pressure that comes with being at Anfield.

Kenny has done a lot of good things, win the Carling cup, phased out Carragher, lessened the dependency on Gerrard.

Like in all honesty, if we win 3 or 4 of the remaining league matches to finish 7th and win the 2 cups we'll have had a great season. We really will. If that happens then 4th is imperative next season but this whole thing was never gonna happen overnight. People are forgetting that and confusing the musings of a few lunatics who thought that 'this was our year' with the musings of the reasoned LFC fan.

Mr Alan

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Except that cost you 100 million. And Villa never have anything close to that

You may wish to have a look into the monies Villa have spent since Lerner arrived into the club.

Helix can fill you in.

bullpost

Very commendable - I for one hope you keep faith with Kenny for a long time to come and persevere with Carroll and the others as well.

Morricone wrote: »

You see unlike Chelsea, here at Liverpool Football Club we like to spend within our means, be fiscally prudent and not buy and sack our way to success.

RiseToTheTop

IMO he should leave.

K-9

Morricone wrote: »

Carroll has been a poor signing as has Downing there is no disputing that while Adam has been atrocious. These players don't do well under the intense pressure that comes with being at Anfield.

Adam was doing fine when Lucas was beside him. He's expected to do too much without him which he can't do, which given the money spent, was hardly expected.

Our big problem besides the obvious lack of goals has been no replacement of Alonso to anywhere near his level.

Sgt Pepper 64

Mr Alan wrote: »

You may wish to have a look into the monies Villa have spent since Lerner arrived into the club.

Helix can fill you in.

I'm well aware of Lerners spending

But here you are specifically comparing 2011/2012 season

Villa actually lost some very good players (If you count Downing!) and made a profit
Their transfer income outweighed their outgoings.
you really cant compare the 2 clubs, but I'm also aware it was a wind up attempt

IN

Charles N'Zogbia (Wigan, £9.5m), Shay Given (Manchester City, £3.5m), Alan Hutton (Tottenham, undisclosed), Jermaine Jenas (Tottenham, loan).


OUT


Stewart Downing (Liverpool, £20m), Ashley Young (Manchester United, £16m), Luke Young (QPR, undisclosed), Jonathan Hogg (Watford, undisclosed), Brad Friedel (Tottenham, free), Nigel Reo-Coker (Bolton, free), John Carew (West Ham, free), Robert Pires (released), Moustapha Salifou (released), Isaiah Osbourne (Hibernian, free), Andreas Weimann (Watford, loan), Jean Makoun (Olympiakos, loan).

Sgt Pepper 64

K-9 wrote: »

Adam was doing fine when Lucas was beside him. He's expected to do too much without him which he can't do, which given the money spent, was hardly expected.

Our big problem besides the obvious lack of goals has been no replacement of Alonso to anywhere near his level.

IMO, losing Lucas is a big part of of the problem - key player for you this season

Samich

To think a few years ago Liverpools Midfield was Macherano and Alonso. Last Sunday it was Spearing and Shelvey.

K-9

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

IMO, losing Lucas is a big part of of the problem - key player for you this season

Yep, barring the Spurs game we were defensively rock solid up to his injury, on course for fourth. The confidence and reassurance he gives the team is a huge loss. When you can't score goals being rock solid is pretty important!

Samich wrote: »

To think a few years ago Liverpools Midfield was Macherano and Alonso. Last Sunday it was Spearing and Shelvey.

We've 2 seasons of basically asset stripping to make up. I think Downing, Adam and Henderson can be decent squad players, just far too much paid. When you think Shelvey was bought for about £2 Million and not much younger than Henderson, it shows how much we over paid. That's one of the areas signings seem to have dried up on, 18/19 year olds for cheap money that'll take a couple of seasons to get established. Seems to be all academy youths now.

One things for sure, whoever is manager in the Summer is going to have earn their money transfer spend wise!

Mr Alan

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

I'm well aware of Lerners spending

But here you are specifically comparing 2011/2012 season

Villa actually lost some very good players (If you count Downing!) and made a profit
Their transfer income outweighed their outgoings.
you really cant compare the 2 clubs, but I'm also aware it was a wind up attempt

IN

Charles N'Zogbia (Wigan, £9.5m), Shay Given (Manchester City, £3.5m), Alan Hutton (Tottenham, undisclosed), Jermaine Jenas (Tottenham, loan).


OUT


Stewart Downing (Liverpool, £20m), Ashley Young (Manchester United, £16m), Luke Young (QPR, undisclosed), Jonathan Hogg (Watford, undisclosed), Brad Friedel (Tottenham, free), Nigel Reo-Coker (Bolton, free), John Carew (West Ham, free), Robert Pires (released), Moustapha Salifou (released), Isaiah Osbourne (Hibernian, free), Andreas Weimann (Watford, loan), Jean Makoun (Olympiakos, loan).

Nowhere in your post did you allude to the fact you were talking about only 1 season. Infact, surely (despite who you support), you can agree judging anything definitely in football in "one season" is ****ing idiotic, right?

Lerner has certainly tightened the purse strings considerably this year, however, my point was, when they weren't tightened, Villa were spending comparable sums of money to what Liverpool have done since Kenny arrived. Throughout that period, if they had have finished 6th-8th, won a Carling Cup & got to a minimum of an FA Cup Semi Final, Helix would have been spunking his beans all over the place. For him to pretend otherwise is embarrasing.

Yet a Liverpool manager does that in his first season & he is rightly under big pressure because of a really poor run of form in the league.

This is likely why he hates the club so much, our lowest ebb >>>> the greatest season he will likely ever experience as a Villa fan. Thems the breaks.

#15

Mr Alan wrote: »

This is likely why he hates the club so much, our lowest ebb >>>> the greatest season he will likely ever experience as a Villa fan. Thems the breaks.

I don't think that's correct.

In that case, wouldn't he hate every other club that has more success than Villa?

kryogen

Suarez is always classed as a hit, no question among pool fans, I have been wondering lately why?

Granted he is like a poor mans Tevez of a few years back with his energy and all that, but he doesnt exactly have great numbers in terms of goals/assists does he?

Not saying he is a flop, but saying he is certainly not a big hit yet, at least on the field.

Hasnt won many games for the club or done anything to improve the clubs image off the field

missingtime

kryogen wrote: »

Suarez is always classed as a hit, no question among pool fans, I have been wondering lately why?

Granted he is like a poor mans Tevez of a few years back with his energy and all that, but he doesnt exactly have great numbers in terms of goals/assists does he?

Not saying he is a flop, but saying he is certainly not a big hit yet, at least on the field.

Hasnt won many games for the club or done anything to improve the clubs image off the field

Christ will ya give us something

maximoose

kryogen wrote: »

Suarez is always classed as a hit, no question among pool fans, I have been wondering lately why?

Granted he is like a poor mans Tevez of a few years back with his energy and all that, but he doesnt exactly have great numbers in terms of goals/assists does he?

Not saying he is a flop, but saying he is certainly not a big hit yet, at least on the field.

Hasnt won many games for the club or done anything to improve the clubs image off the field

As much as I detest Suarez, I'd agree with Pool fans that he has been a transfer success. Granted his stats aren't magnificent at the minute, but the flashes of brilliance inbetween the moments when he's trying to do everything to disgrace himself as a footballer show how great he could actually be.

He has been awfully unlucky aswell, has hit the post a ridiculous amount of times and if they had gone his way his stats would read a lot better. I think he'll come good.


....the rest of the transfers though (bar Bellamy who was free) have been atrocious buys IMO

Hannibal

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

I'm well aware of Lerners spending

But here you are specifically comparing 2011/2012 season

Villa actually lost some very good players (If you count Downing!) and made a profit
Their transfer income outweighed their outgoings.
you really cant compare the 2 clubs, but I'm also aware it was a wind up attempt

IN

Charles N'Zogbia (Wigan, £9.5m), Shay Given (Manchester City, £3.5m), Alan Hutton (Tottenham, undisclosed), Jermaine Jenas (Tottenham, loan).


OUT


Stewart Downing (Liverpool, £20m), Ashley Young (Manchester United, £16m), Luke Young (QPR, undisclosed), Jonathan Hogg (Watford, undisclosed), Brad Friedel (Tottenham, free), Nigel Reo-Coker (Bolton, free), John Carew (West Ham, free), Robert Pires (released), Moustapha Salifou (released), Isaiah Osbourne (Hibernian, free), Andreas Weimann (Watford, loan), Jean Makoun (Olympiakos, loan).

I know from reading a Tomkins article over a year ago that Liverpool's net spend was below Tottenham, Aston Villa and Sunderland during the Benitez era covering 6 years from 2004 until 2010.

Fuhrer

maximoose wrote: »

He has been awfully unlucky aswell, has hit the post a ridiculous amount of times and if they had gone his way his stats would read a lot better. I think he'll come good.

Why is constantly hitting the post seen as unlucky instead of well... bad?

Helix

Mr Alan wrote: »

Nowhere in your post did you allude to the fact you were talking about only 1 season. Infact, surely (despite who you support), you can agree judging anything definitely in football in "one season" is ****ing idiotic, right?

Lerner has certainly tightened the purse strings considerably this year, however, my point was, when they weren't tightened, Villa were spending comparable sums of money to what Liverpool have done since Kenny arrived. Throughout that period, if they had have finished 6th-8th, won a Carling Cup & got to a minimum of an FA Cup Semi Final, Helix would have been spunking his beans all over the place. For him to pretend otherwise is embarrasing.

Yet a Liverpool manager does that in his first season & he is rightly under big pressure because of a really poor run of form in the league.

This is likely why he hates the club so much, our lowest ebb >>>> the greatest season he will likely ever experience as a Villa fan. Thems the breaks.

villa finished 6th 3 times in a row, got to a league cup final fa cup semi final and there was no bean spunking anywhere to be seen on my part though?

again why are you making this about villa? because it's not a thread about them at all. i just happen to be a villa supporter. since you've raised the last point though, wouldn't that mean that i'd hate just about every club in the top 10 of the league right now? but i dont. id have serious hate for united, the most successful team of my lifetime, but i dont.

liverpool at their lowest ebb > the greatest villa season i'll experience? you'd want to look back at some of the league tables during my lifetime chap

Helix

Fuhrer wrote: »

Why is constantly hitting the post seen as unlucky instead of well... bad?

never understood that myself

you never hear people saying "well he put the ball a touch over the bar 5 times and sent it an inch wide of the post 11 times this season" when they're talking about a player scoring. wide, over and off the post, they're all off target

smokedeels

Fuhrer wrote: »

maximoose wrote: »

He has been awfully unlucky aswell, has hit the post a ridiculous amount of times and if they had gone his way his stats would read a lot better. I think he'll come good.

Why is constantly hitting the post seen as unlucky instead of well... bad?

No idea, Liverpool's collective woodwork battering is often spoken of as unlucky but they are misses, simple as.

There are players on that team with shocking shot-conversion stats.

invinciblePRSTV

Mr Alan wrote: »

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

I'm well aware of Lerners spending

But here you are specifically comparing 2011/2012 season

Villa actually lost some very good players (If you count Downing!) and made a profit
Their transfer income outweighed their outgoings.
you really cant compare the 2 clubs, but I'm also aware it was a wind up attempt

IN

Charles N'Zogbia (Wigan, £9.5m), Shay Given (Manchester City, £3.5m), Alan Hutton (Tottenham, undisclosed), Jermaine Jenas (Tottenham, loan).


OUT


Stewart Downing (Liverpool, £20m), Ashley Young (Manchester United, £16m), Luke Young (QPR, undisclosed), Jonathan Hogg (Watford, undisclosed), Brad Friedel (Tottenham, free), Nigel Reo-Coker (Bolton, free), John Carew (West Ham, free), Robert Pires (released), Moustapha Salifou (released), Isaiah Osbourne (Hibernian, free), Andreas Weimann (Watford, loan), Jean Makoun (Olympiakos, loan).

Nowhere in your post did you allude to the fact you were talking about only 1 season. Infact, surely (despite who you support), you can agree judging anything definitely in football in "one season" is ****ing idiotic, right?

Lerner has certainly tightened the purse strings considerably this year, however, my point was, when they weren't tightened, Villa were spending comparable sums of money to what Liverpool have done since Kenny arrived. Throughout that period, if they had have finished 6th-8th, won a Carling Cup & got to a minimum of an FA Cup Semi Final, Helix would have been spunking his beans all over the place. For him to pretend otherwise is embarrasing.

Yet a Liverpool manager does that in his first season & he is rightly under big pressure because of a really poor run of form in the league.

This is likely why he hates the club so much, our lowest ebb >>>> the greatest season he will likely ever experience as a Villa fan. Thems the breaks.

LOL, ,someone's still a bit precious and upset by being pwned by Villa fans all those summers ago.

Let it go, or at least discuss it in the right thread.

ollie1

maximoose wrote: »

As much as I detest Suarez, I'd agree with Pool fans that he has been a transfer success. Granted his stats aren't magnificent at the minute, but the flashes of brilliance inbetween the moments when he's trying to do everything to disgrace himself as a footballer show how great he could actually be.

He has been awfully unlucky aswell, has hit the post a ridiculous amount of times and if they had gone his way his stats would read a lot better. I think he'll come good.


....the rest of the transfers though (bar Bellamy who was free) have been atrocious buys IMO

Enrique has been a good buy and I wouldn't call him atrocious.

Nalz

ollie1 wrote: »

Enrique has been a good buy and I wouldn't call him atrocious.

average buy who's been well...........average.

niallo27

Trilla wrote: »

average buy who's been well...........average.

He was excellent up to Christmas, he has had some poor games since then, i dont know what has happened to him.

RasTa

Random net spend stat

Here is the Premier League table alternate top 10, by net spend, for figures over the past five seasons, from 2007/08 to 2011/12.

Manchester City: £430.77 million

Chelsea: £159.7 million

Liverpool: £99.25 million

Sunderland: £57.6 million

Tottenham Hotspur: £49.4 million

Manchester United: £47.25 million

Swansea City: £8.25 million

Everton: £5 million

Newcastle United: -£30.25 million

Arsenal: -£31.3 million

Some high notables outside the top 10 atm are

Stoke City: £54.4 million
Aston Villa: £54.2 million

mike65

Manchester City: £430.77 million and they still won't win the league this year. Wonder will we have a "Are Roberto Mancinci and Manchester City Done" thread in May?

Fuhrer

mike65 wrote: »

Manchester City: £430.77 million and they still won't win the league this year. Wonder will we have a "Are Roberto Mancinci and Manchester City Done" thread in May?

We have one already...

mike65

Oh! I won't bother looking for it.

Samich

mike65 wrote: »

Oh! I won't bother looking for it.

Your post count is massive :pac:

Adolf Hipster

mike65 wrote: »

Manchester City: £430.77 million and they still won't win the league this year. Wonder will we have a "Are Roberto Mancinci and Manchester City Done" thread in May?

Difference is City are playing great football, United are just better.

Liverpool have been abysmal and are currently behind Newcastle who have 130m less Net Spend over the last 5 years.

kryogen

It actually is, its kinda impressive @Mikes post count

Samich

kryogen wrote: »

It actually is, its kinda impressive

Has to lead to bad eyes though? :pac:

bucketybuck

We all know the "Net spend" rubbish is just an attempt to deflect attention away from some horrendous transfer dealings but really, how stupid do Liverpool fans believe the wider public are?

They say that it doesn't matter that Carroll cost €35 million, because they got €50 million for Torres. They got €15 million profit so its ok. :rolleyes: Even a child can spot the flaw in that argument, ie: paying less for Carroll would have resulted in even MOAR profit!!!

"But no", they cry, "we told Chelsea they had to pay €15 million more than we paid for Carroll, so we were always only going to get €15 million".

What a crock'o'****e. What muppet works a transfer like that? You mean to say Abramovich demanded to see the deal sheet for Carroll before he signed off on Torres? Bollox. If Abramovich was prepared to go to €50 million then Liverpool should have been able to negotiate that fee independently to the Carroll transfer. If they couldnt then their staff should all be dumped as the idiots they clearly are.

Carroll should have been signed for circa €15 million, AND Torres sold for €50 million. That would have been good business. What actually happened was inept business, and later transfers continued that ineptness. No amount of blathering about "net spend" can hide that.

Leiva

bucketybuck wrote: »

We all know the "Net spend" rubbish is just an attempt to deflect attention away from some horrendous transfer dealings but really, how stupid do Liverpool fans believe the wider public are?

They say that it doesn't matter that Carroll cost €35 million, because they got €50 million for Torres. They got €15 million profit so its ok. :rolleyes: Even a child can spot the flaw in that argument, ie: paying less for Carroll would have resulted in even MOAR profit!!!

"But no", they cry, "we told Chelsea they had to pay €15 million more than we paid for Carroll, so we were always only going to get €15 million".

What a crock'o'****e. What muppet works a transfer like that? You mean to say Abramovich demanded to see the deal sheet for Carroll before he signed off on Torres? Bollox. If Abramovich was prepared to go to €50 million then Liverpool should have been able to negotiate that fee independently to the Carroll transfer. If they couldnt then their staff should all be dumped as the idiots they clearly are.

Carroll should have been signed for circa €15 million, AND Torres sold for €50 million. That would have been good business. What actually happened was inept business, and later transfers continued that ineptness. No amount of blathering about "net spend" can hide that.

Please tell who this "they" guy is that your direct quoting ?

monkey9

bucketybuck wrote: »

We all know the "Net spend" rubbish is just an attempt to deflect attention away from some horrendous transfer dealings but really, how stupid do Liverpool fans believe the wider public are?

They say that it doesn't matter that Carroll cost €35 million, because they got €50 million for Torres. They got €15 million profit so its ok. :rolleyes: Even a child can spot the flaw in that argument, ie: paying less for Carroll would have resulted in even MOAR profit!!!

"But no", they cry, "we told Chelsea they had to pay €15 million more than we paid for Carroll, so we were always only going to get €15 million".

What a crock'o'****e. What muppet works a transfer like that? You mean to say Abramovich demanded to see the deal sheet for Carroll before he signed off on Torres? Bollox. If Abramovich was prepared to go to €50 million then Liverpool should have been able to negotiate that fee independently to the Carroll transfer. If they couldnt then their staff should all be dumped as the idiots they clearly are.

Carroll should have been signed for circa €15 million, AND Torres sold for €50 million. That would have been good business. What actually happened was inept business, and later transfers continued that ineptness. No amount of blathering about "net spend" can hide that.

We're deflecting attention again lads. Wahey. Did you call us deluded?? I can't see that anywhere. You seem to have forgotten to call us deluded!!

Iang87

one thing that must be said is that its a shocking state of affairs that people have been calling for Kennys head since January. He is about to finish his first full season in charge and he has been retired by some people on here.

So the options I present Spend big on players, transfers dont work manager gets sacked. (as some want to happen King Kenny)

Spend big on manager to bring quick success, success doesn't come immediately cos you're team isn't very good/unwilling to adapt (as happened AVB at chelsea)

third option you stick with the manager and give him the time to put his plan in place and support him (similar to what united did to ferguson when they finished 11th in the 88-89 season)

Iang87

oh and before anyone says do i think kenny is going to do what ferguson did. No I dont think that because i'm sure thats all some will take from what i said

firemansam4

bucketybuck wrote: »

We all know the "Net spend" rubbish is just an attempt to deflect attention away from some horrendous transfer dealings but really, how stupid do Liverpool fans believe the wider public are?

They say that it doesn't matter that Carroll cost €35 million, because they got €50 million for Torres. They got €15 million profit so its ok. :rolleyes: Even a child can spot the flaw in that argument, ie: paying less for Carroll would have resulted in even MOAR profit!!!

"But no", they cry, "we told Chelsea they had to pay €15 million more than we paid for Carroll, so we were always only going to get €15 million".

What a crock'o'****e. What muppet works a transfer like that? You mean to say Abramovich demanded to see the deal sheet for Carroll before he signed off on Torres? Bollox. If Abramovich was prepared to go to €50 million then Liverpool should have been able to negotiate that fee independently to the Carroll transfer. If they couldnt then their staff should all be dumped as the idiots they clearly are.

Carroll should have been signed for circa €15 million, AND Torres sold for €50 million. That would have been good business. What actually happened was inept business, and later transfers continued that ineptness. No amount of blathering about "net spend" can hide that.

That's is a big generalization of Liverpool fans!

I am far from in the "Lets sack Kenny brigade", but I and many other Liverpool fans would not defend some of the money that has been spent on these signings, there has been much discussion to this fact on our own thread!
And many of us would not defend it by saying sure we got 50 million for Torres.
But at the end of the day when you say Liverpool have spent over 100 million for this season it is purely and simply false because we have not

Cantona's Collars

What £100 million and tactics that are positively stonehenge get you.



Dalglish clearly isn't up for the job,outdated tactics,poor transfers and the debacle that was the whole Suarez incident.I'd say he'll leave at the end of the season but as a United fan,I hope he stays.

wonderfullife

Iang87 wrote: »

one thing that must be said is that its a shocking state of affairs that people have been calling for Kennys head since January. He is about to finish his first full season in charge and he has been retired by some people on here.

So the options I present Spend big on players, transfers dont work manager gets sacked. (as some want to happen King Kenny)

Spend big on manager to bring quick success, success doesn't come immediately cos you're team isn't very good/unwilling to adapt (as happened AVB at chelsea)

third option you stick with the manager and give him the time to put his plan in place and support him (similar to what united did to ferguson when they finished 11th in the 88-89 season)

Why do people keep going back 23 years? Times have changed, it doesnt work that way anymore!! in 1989 Millwall, Coventry, Derby and Notts Forest finished ahead of United!! Notts Forest were 1 of the best clubs in the country!!Times change!!

Every manager going into every club would love 3 or 4 seasons to execute a long term plan. It's just not the way of the world in football anymore.

Move on from the 80s.

Xavi6

mike65 wrote: »

Manchester City: £430.77 million and they still won't win the league this year. Wonder will we have a "Are Roberto Mancinci and Manchester City Done" thread in May?

Given how you were exposed earlier in the thread you were probably itching to start it.

Adolf Hipster

Xavi6 wrote: »

mike65 wrote: »

Manchester City: £430.77 million and they still won't win the league this year. Wonder will we have a "Are Roberto Mancinci and Manchester City Done" thread in May?

Given how you were exposed earlier in the thread you were probably itching to start it.

Cop on xavi or he won't trust you anymore.

Oranage2

zerks wrote: »

What £100 million and tactics

Dalglish clearly isn't up for the job,outdated tactics,poor transfers and the debacle that was the whole Suarez incident.I'd say he'll leave at the end of the season but as a United fan,I hope he stays.

I've no doubt dalglish will be sacked, i say this because I've actually never seen a manager be treated the way gerard treated him last week, no respect but why should gerard respect him when he turned the club into a mediocre laughing stock.

Father Damo

What I still cant fathom about the "he needs time" brigade is that Hodgson, who remains one of the best managers in the league, was a target for the boo boys from about a month into the job. How in the name of god did he not deserve time, yet Dalglish does? Anyone with half a brain surely could see from the second he got the job that this would not work out (I had no doubt he would fail to succeed, although I had truly no idea of how Steve Staunton like the whole thing would become). Maybe it was from being an Ireland fan that I had more of an idea of how and why this was to be bad, as we know all too well the folly of appointing poorly qualified people based on sentimentality and old boys clubness.

Morricone wrote: »

We sold out best player last season in Meireles. We sold Torres who win he left us was bang in form and still one of the best strikers in the world.

Torres was crocked for the previous few months largely, he had never fully recovered from a few knocks he had picked up on international duty. Unfortunately there was alot of impatience from the "fans" regarding this. Fans who were calling him past it one minute and then deriding him when he left for apparent disloyalty. Being forced out of the club he loved, in addition to being forced to play several times when he should have been rested for months, have undoubtedtly turned him into the shadow of his old self that he is today.

Sgt Pepper 64

mike65 wrote: »

Manchester City: £430.77 million and they still won't win the league this year. Wonder will we have a "Are Roberto Mancinci and Manchester City Done" thread in May?

I already started that! In March!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056587539

Cantona's Collars

Just watching a roundup of the 96/97 season atm on Sky,Roy Evans was in charge of Liverpool then & they were 5 points clear at Xmas and played some decent stuff.Just shows how much they have regressed and are now on a par with any midtable side who just raise their game for the big boys ala United,Chelsea etc.

niallo27

zerks wrote: »

Just watching a roundup of the 96/97 season atm on Sky,Roy Evans was in charge of Liverpool then & they were 5 points clear at Xmas and played some decent stuff.Just shows how much they have regressed and are now on a par with any midtable side who just raise their game for the big boys ala United,Chelsea etc.

They were top of the table at Christmas 3 years ago as well and one of the best teams in Europe. I don't know why your going back 16 years.

LuckyLloyd

niallo27 wrote: »

They were top of the table at Christmas 3 years ago as well and one of the best teams in Europe. I don't know why your going back 16 years.

I know why and you do too!

Cantona's Collars

No winding up or trolling intended,it's just that I was watching the show & Liverpool were challenging for the title and everything seemed rosy.3 years ago was just an anomoly,I think even the most die hard fan will admit that it was a false dawn.A league title challenge is even further away than ever now.

Sappy404

zerks wrote: »

No winding up or trolling intended,it's just that I was watching the show & Liverpool were challenging for the title and everything seemed rosy.3 years ago was just an anomoly,I think even the most die hard fan will admit that it was a false dawn.A league title challenge is even further away than ever now.

Yes. Liverpool haven't been any use in 16 years. I for one dream of the heyday we had under Evans. We've done nothing since except win all those trophies.

Leiva

zerks wrote: »

No winding up or trolling intended,it's just that I was watching the show & Liverpool were challenging for the title and everything seemed rosy.3 years ago was just an anomoly,I think even the most die hard fan will admit that it was a false dawn.A league title challenge is even further away than ever now.

If your not you should be embarrassed .

Cause your last two posts are nothing but cringe worthy.